Admin Edit-
Cross posting is frowned upon, but I'm putting this up in 3 forums- Ammo, Lounge, and M&P15.
We want to get the word out.
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ATF is considering a ban on SS109 ammo!
("Green Tip" 5.56mm NATO aka M855)

It was originally exempted from the Armor Piercing ban because it was a rifle cartridge with a legitimate sporting use, i.e. target shooting.

With the availability of AR type handguns, this ammo is now endangered under the ban on armor piercing handgun ammo!

See the complete document here-
http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fil...g_purposes.pdf

ATF will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16, 2015

Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comments multiple times or by more than one method)

ATF website - [email protected] Follow the instructions for submitting comment

Fax: (202) 648-9741

Mail:
Denise Brown Attn: AP Ammo Comments
Mailstop 6N-602 - Office of Regulatory Affairs
BATFE
99 New York Avenue
Washington, DC 2022

PLEASE comment, but keep it reasonable, folks.
Cussing them out will NOT help us!

What is the difference in SS109 and M855 ammo refereed to in the article link in the above post and 5.56/.223 PMC FMJBT that I buy for my AR? Is it the core material in the M855? I've been shooting PMC Bronze since the mid 80s, but I'm not familiar with these number designation.

M855 (NATO designation SS109) has a steel penetrator in the tip. It's really not in a sense AP (AP ammo has hardened steel or tungsten cores) as its mild steel is pretty soft.

You can see the sections 855 here.

M855 Bullets and Their Construction - AR15.COM


The PMC FMJ ball ammo you have been shooting is most likely the 55gr FMJ and is just a lead core. I say most likely cause PMC does sell green tip 855 too.

As this ammunition is not armor piercing by the normal definition, look for the BATF to attempt to expand the ban because of the ability of almost any .223 ammunition loaded with anything other than a varmint bullet to penetrate a bullet proof vest when fired from a AR handgun. The ammunition commonly used for hunting deer that is loaded with monometal bullets or Nosler Partitions certainly should penetrate, as should XM193.

I read about this early this morning about 9am and thought maybe I should pick up another can or two to go with what I already have. It's out of stock almost everyplace. First a run on .22LR, and now one on 5.56.

Well good luck. It's all bought up already. Can't even find bullets to load.

Guess this is another attempt at "back door gun control" since the administration has not been successful in banning the AR series. If they get this through, other calibers will naturally follow. Gonna be the longest two years in our Nations history!

"(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. "

I have to say if I was the regulator I'd be hard pressed to find a rational not to ban m855, as it clearly falls within the definition laid out in the "Law Enforcement Officer Protection Act".

They have singled out AK and AR15 ammunition. 5.45x39 7n6 was banned last year. 7n6 is not entirely a hardened material. It is a MILD STEEL insert surrounded by jacketed lead. It has never been and is not armor piercing. M855 is a lead jacketed projectile with a MILD STEEL TIP. It is not hardened has never been and is not considered armor piercing. M995 is the only armor piercing 5.56 and is not commercially sold.

There are pistols in rifle calibers of all kinds. It all penetrates soft armor.

Get over the bogus verbage and realize that the ATF is expanding the definition to institute a ban.

The ATF stated that they wish to pull the exemption in the name of safety for LE officers. Problem is... all 5.56 mm rounds will penetrate IIIa vests (the type they are likely to be using). This means that their argument on this point is moot. The also common M193, known as 55 gr FMJ will pass through the vest just as easily.

The 62 gr is the NATO standard round in 5.56mm, used all over the world, which also makes it very common. The M855 62 gr round was the next step in evolution from the 55 gr stuff. The barrels on most AR rifles now have a 1:7 twist because of the M855 ammo. The faster twist better stabilizes the longer bullet and makes it effective at far greater distances than the 55 gr stuff.

This is just a back-door attempt to limit our ammunition selection, and takes one of the best choices away from civilian consumers.

Mike

__________________
NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

That's the problem. If they can not ban the rifle, they will attempt to ban the ammunition. Look for more bans coming to a gun shop near you.

BREAKING: Obama Announces Gun Control Executive Order... Here's What's Banned

Don't know if it's true but a friend posted this on my facebook

Here's my first draft, I'll be emailing the final to [email protected]:



First of all, thank you for the hard work you do.

- The proposal to ban civilian use of M855-type ammunition oversteps the authority of any governmental entity, except through the repeal of the Second Amendment.

- The executive order set by President Obama oversteps his authority and should be reconsidered. While I appreciate the efforts of our Commander in Chief, he doesn't have the necessary background to make judgments in this area.

- M855 (ball) ammunition has been approved by the Geneva Convention.

- U.S. citizens are our final line of defense against foreign aggressors. Indeed, with the rise of smaller terrorist cells, gun owners are our best defense against these barbarians. "When seconds count, police are only minutes away."

- While it is true that the purpose of firearms is to injure or kill people (other than the sport of hunting and target shooting), the number of actual injuries pales in comparison to that of other types of total causes of death and injury.

I would like to close by reminding you that freedom isn't free. In order to remain a sovereign nation, we can't forget that we live in a dangerous world.

Thank you for your time and consideration.


Regards,


Edward C. Rogers, MSgt (Ret), USAF
Fidelity Productions LLC
(435) 764-9037
Member of the Cache Valley
Chamber of Commerce

Go to this link, use the form, and your comments will go not only to the BATFE, but the Pres, VP, and your congresscritters.

https://www.nraila.org/take-action/w...rs/stop-batfe/

This is what I put in the comments, clipped from the NRA website:

M855 ammunition should not even be categorized as "armor piercing" in the first place, given that lead is the primary material beneath its copper jacket.

BATFE's framework does not clarify the "sporting purposes" exemption; it simply interprets it into irrelevance.

The framework overturns nearly 30 years of settled law and the good faith expectations of gun owners and industry members.

The framework is totally at odds with the intent of the law to ensure that restrictions on armor piercing handgun ammunition do not unduly restrict common rifle ammunition, most of which is capable of penetrating police body armor when used in a rifle as intended.

BATFE incorrectly insists that it is required to establish an "objective" standard based on handgun design, yet it fails even to do that with the very broad "discretion" it retains to deny the exemption to projectiles that meet its "objective" test.

The framework will suppress the development of non-lead rifle projectiles that offer increased performance for hunters, decreased lead exposure, and solutions for hunters in states that restrict the use of lead in hunting.

The framework will likewise deter handgun development, as new designs could trigger bans.

Coupled with increasing attempts to ban lead projectiles, the framework could drastically reduce the availability of lawful ammunition for sporting and other legitimate purposes.

M855 ammunition in AR pistols is not a common threat faced by law enforcement officers.

By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing.” Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be “armor piercing ammunition,” but granted it an exemption as a projectile “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.”

A few questions come to mind as this new proposal gets more attention. 1) Why now? 2) Is "armor piercing" .223 ammunition really being used at epidemic rates against our law enforcement officers? The answer is no.

This is a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, and I urge you in the strongest terms to reject this proposal.

Feel free to clip and send

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Here is my email to [email protected] (BATF) that I sent today. It has changed from the draft, for brevity and content:

I am not in favor of banning M855 ammunition. Here is my reasoning:

- The proposal to ban civilian use of M855-type ammunition oversteps the authority of any governmental entity, except through the repeal of the Second Amendment.

- The executive order set by President Obama oversteps his authority and should be reconsidered. While I appreciate the efforts of our Commander in Chief, he doesn't have the necessary background to make judgments in this area.

- M855 (ball) ammunition has been approved by the Geneva Convention. M855 bullets generally cause "through and through" wounds. Banning this ammunition may actually result in worse law enforcement casualties.

- U.S. citizens are our final line of defense against foreign aggressors. Indeed, with the rise of smaller terrorist cells, gun owners are our best defense against these barbarians. "When seconds count, police are only minutes away."

- While it is true that the purpose of firearms is to injure or kill people (other than the sport of hunting and target shooting), the number of actual injuries and deaths pales in comparison to that of other types of causes. When you further differentiate the threat of "AR" pistols the number is reduced to a ridiculous fraction.

I would like to close by reminding you that freedom isn't free. In order to remain a sovereign nation, we can't forget that we live in a dangerous world.

Thank you for your time and consideration.


Regards,


Edward C. Rogers, MSgt (Ret), USAF
Fidelity Productions LLC
(435) 764-9037
Member of the Cache Valley
Chamber of Commerce

It looks like your voices were heard. They have decided not to take away the exemption... at least for now.

Notice to those Commenting on the Armor Piercing Ammunition Exemption Framework

Mike

__________________
NRA Certified Pistol Inst.