Help educate me please, had been out of shooting for years and just getting back into it and realized I NEED to replace the 25+ year old ammo I keep in my home defense gun.

I have a 6" 686 no dash bought in the mid 80's that is currently loaded with 357 Mag hollow points from the late 80's. I know that modern ammo is much better and trying to figure out what to buy before I go shoot up the old loads.

What would you have loaded if your home defense gun was a 6" 686?

Hornady 158gr XTP .357 Magnum ammunition is what I would have in a 6" 686. It meets advertised velocity out of my 6" Model 28 and is as accurate as I can shoot. Recoil is not excessive so follow up shots are pretty easy.

My $.02

the ammo you have doesn't go bad....as to new ammo being better...try some along side of super vel from the 70's

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

You don't say how close to your neighbors you are but many of the modern +P rounds come close to .357 ballistics absent the flash and recoil associated w/the magnum. I keep my snub Model 10 loaded w/the old FBI +P 158 grain round b/c I know it works from past experience.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

If you shoot a .357 indoors, without hearing protection, won't it cause severe hearing loss?

Possibly, but not necessarily. My FIL almost gut-shot me with a LLAMA 357 a few years back. My ears rang for a few hours, but there was no permanent damage.

We all believe it to have been a ND on his part. (He hasn't taken any shots at me in the 8 years since.) I'm just glad I was paying attention to where the muzzle was pointed and took that half step to the left.

If you can find it, 135 gr Speer Gold Dot in .38 +P or .357 Short Barrel would be among many good choices. There are more than a few personal reports here about full .357s being fired in enclosed spaces and resulting permanent ear ringing or hearing loss.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

a .357 magnum cartridge for indoor defense may be excessive. in addition to the increased report and muzzle flash...the fired .357 magnum cartridge may pass through the intended target and carry on through walls....putting utilities, equipment and persons at risk...

my preference is a 148 gr cast DEWC (double ended wadcutter) @ about 800 fps

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There's nowt so queer as folk

Thanks gentlemen, I was thinking along the same line and now I know I will be looking for some +P loads this weekend when I go to the LGS to take to the range and to keep for my home defense rounds.

I appreciate your help in educating me.

800 fps inside a house is enough for me. Full power loads I save for the woods.

I would be using the Speer 135gr +P Gold Dot in 38 Special.

Dude, glad your still here to tell us about it and have a since of humor. Thats more than a little scary!

Old ammo still works about 99.999% of the time if it's quality factory ammunition.

.357 Magnum is, IMHO, overkill for indoor self defense. Unless you live alone and have no nearby neighbors you risk over penetration through walls, etc., even after hitting your target, never mind the noise, night vision killing flame (if the fight is at night), and recoil. Even experienced .357 Magnum shooters will recover for a second round faster from .38 Special rounds than magnum rounds.

Plus P ammunition can be problematic with respect to over penetration, too, but if you're trying to choose between full house .357 and +P .38 go with the .38 +P.

I practice what I preach. My home defense 686+ is NEVER loaded with .357 Magnum at home.

Sidebar: If you save your life and damage your hearing you won't regret it - it's an easy tradeoff.....

Second sidebar - in today's bear thread you see me tell a different story - but it's for a very obviously different reason.....

Agreed on the Speer SB .38+P, but a caveat on the .357 version: it will likely be overdriven in a 6" barrel and risk failure to perform to spec.

This is my preference. It seems to shoot pretty close to where the sights are. Even though it's fun, it got expensive playing around with all the fancy ammo, so I standardized on this load for defense, and 158 gr LRN for practice in my .38s.

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Because of the metric system?

Depending on what you get, a 38+p out of a 6 inch barrel may end up supersonic. Sounds like enough giddyup to me.

The +P 38 Special 158 gr SWCHP would be just fine in a six inch barrel.

You're bound to get a variety of opinions on this subject, most of
which will reflect the responder's bias's and have little relevance to
you. As a few have stated above you don't need to replace your 357
ammo that's in your gun. 25 year old ammo is certainly modern enough
and likely better than ammo produced today. 357 HPs out of a 6"
barrel are not likely to create the dreaded, overhyped "overpenetration
threat". You haven't fired it in defense of your home in 25 yrs so it
seems unlikely you will do so in the near future. As far as ringing ears
and flash indoors it seems like that would be the least of worries of
anyone actually dealing with a potentially deadly home invasion. I
think for anyone experiencing someone smashing in their door to
get in and attack them there wouldn't be any such thing as too much
power in a defense shot.

It all depends on your specific requirements , and personal biases regarding wall penetration.

If you live alone in the middle of a corn field , use whatever would otherwise be your choice for defensive ammo in general.

For somewhat reduced wall penetration , use a 110 JHP , either +P .38 , or .357 ( the 110jhp .357 is typically 3/4 load, similar vels to a .38 +P+ ) .

If you really need to have zero pass thru of interior walls , then prefragmented.

If I understand the OP that he hasn't done much shooting with this gun for decades , your skills at controling rapid DA with full power .357 will have deteriorated. A +P .38 or mid load .357 will offer better control.

Having to shoot indoors without hearing protection is a constant nagging worry for me give the severe hearing loss I have already suffered. Also, being able to hear sounds being made by others who might be outside or inside my house concerns me. Therefore, I have placed a set of top quality electronic hearing protectors right beside my night handgun and flashlight. IF I deem that I have time to spare before investigating, I will place the hearing protection on and then proceed. If I don't have time then I will accept becoming a little more deaf. ..............

When I hear about all the "overpenetration issues" I always wonder how many people have actually shot up the inside of a house . . .

I was an IPSC competitor in a club near Denver. The club got permission to shoot up a two bedroom farm house way out East of Denver as it was going to be demolished. Three Saturdays in a row we went out and did every sort of penetration test and tactical house clearing exercise we could think of. We could shoot 360 degs. with total safety. Most of us were shooting Colt 1911s in 45acp or 38super. The house was of typical frame construction with 2x4 studding, sheetrock interior wall surface and lap board siding exterior wall surface. Every cartridge shot about straight on to the exterior wall penetrated. Most penetrated one interior wall and the exterior wall. Give a slant angle to two wall penetration and it was much more iffy. Hit a stud on the interior wall and the 45acp usually wouldn't penetrate the exterior wall. The 38super usually still penetrated as most of the shooters at that time were using cast lead for the 45s and jacketed commercial bullets for the 38s. If you had a long wall almost in a line with a target peeking out it was all but impossible to get any sort of hit except on that exposed part of the target. If a bullet had to penetrate 4 to 6 studs plus two layers of sheetrock, nothing we were shooting at that time would get the job done. This all took place about 1980 or 81. I figured out that ceilings were no protection at all. Concealment yes, cover no. Most of the shots into the ceiling also penetrated the sheetmetal roofing. The old house had a basement and we shot up thru the floor and down thru the floor. There was a little more chance of hitting enough wood framing that the shot was no good thru the flooring. Surprisingly a old cast iron and enameled tub up on four feet was about the best 'cover' in the whole house. The only bullet that would penetrate the side of that tub was a FMJ 38super shot in the same room and all but 90 degs to the side of the tub. If I were lying in that tub for cover I would make sure that no badguy got inside the bathroom to make that 90 deg. side shot. The whole exercise was very educational and the opportunity was unique. ................

Wife's 6" 686 has PDX1 38s. Or Lehigh Defense ME 38s


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is little question that typical duty/SD ammo in a handgun presents a far more significant risk of penetrating walls and the like than duty ammo from an AR platform. It's been well established for many years. That said, the first issue is to make sure you hit the target - the risk of penetrating walls after striking your assailant in the 10 ring is much less than if you miss.

A few .38 wadcutters in the vitals of the assailant are far superior to missing 4 times with a hot .357. Do some testing and find ammo you consistently shoot well under poor circumstances such as are likely in a home defense scenario. Buy a bunch of that ammo, and get good at consistently hitting a paper dinner plate at 10 yards as fas as you can pull the trigger.

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NHI, 10-8.

I keep a Model 66 by the bed. Over the years, I've gone back and forth between loading it with .357 Gold Dots, and .38 +P Gold Dots.

I've always felt better when it's been stuffed with the .357s, but fortunately I've never had to light it off in the middle if the night, in the middle of my house. So, I guess my hearing is all set for another 25 years!

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NRA Life Member

This being said, I've settled on loading the M66 with 4 .38 +Ps first, followed up with 2 .357s. I figured if the 4 .38 +Ps didn't get the job done, I'd probably really need the .357s, and to heck with the hearing and wall penetration...! Again, I'm optimistic about never having to use it for an unexpected event.

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NRA Life Member

I can attest to a .38 +P+ MagSafe not penetrating a typical double drywall interior wall.

About two yrs ago an aquaintance was killed when there was an AD in the lower floor , and the bullet penetrated the cieling/ floor , and the sofa upon which he was sleeping.

Had occasion to fire a 158 LHP from a 2in standing inside out thru a window opening.while adreline was pumping. It was loud , but not really worse than a 12ga while hunting . The above mentioned MagSafe left ears ringing for hours.

Not a house per se , but for a time I was regularily shooting rats in a small ( 3 stall + tack room) barn. 9mm +P+ left my ears ringing , and I decided to switch barn guns. .45Colt from 3.5in bbl almost pleasant. ( And a big thumbs up for .45LC CCI shotshells for taking out trophy sized rats , while .22WMR shotshells didn't even slow them down.)

.357 125 XTP`S IN MY 4" 686. Same load in my 6" 586. If I can make it to my Alamo, my shot wont be a threat to anyone except an attacker.
I pretty badly disabled and being able to protect in an emergency with a trusted load gives me a lot of peace of mind.
Jim

Wow, very cool information and I really appreciate you sharing that with us.

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686, Shield 9MM & 642

Got to go to the range again yesterday & shoot some 38's and a speed loader full of 158 grain 357's that I use for home defense. I am happy to say that it 10 yards I could keep them in the 9 ring firing double action however I am going to look for some 38+P. By the time I had rapid fired six 357's, I knew I would be looking for something with less recoil and noise should I ever need to fire it in the my house. I thank you all for all the comments, I definitely enjoy this forum, it is very educational.

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686, Shield 9MM & 642

Yeah, but in the movies the people are always safe from bullets when they,re hunkering down behind the walls and shooting out the windows...!

But seriously, I give a lot of thought to establishing 'shooting lanes' inside my house, in case something goes bump in the night. Having places to conceal/shoot from that are at angles not in line with my children's bedrooms are a first priority.

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NRA Life Member

I read that shooting a .38 or .357 indoors will damage your hearing, but in a life or death struggle maybe not. I experienced shooting indoors at bad guys during my LEO days and never heard a thing, like a silent movie. I believe it's called auditory occlusion, or something like that, and my hearing is fine.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

YES!

-the voice of experience

Everybody is so concerned about hearing loss. In self defense of home, loved ones and self, hearing loss isn't even on my radar.
My dad fought in WWII in Europe. He shot the 37mm cannon in his M8 armored car, as well as .30 and .50 browning machine guns, Garands, grease guns and various German machine guns. If he had any hearing protection, it might have been a cig butt in each ear. He seamed to hear fine in his 80's.
I like the 38spl just fine. But I like the 357mag even more. I shoot it in a 3" GP100, and don't find it hard to control whatsoever. I go back and forth between critical defense 125gn and 158gn XTP. If Winchester ever does make their 145gn Silvertip load again, I'll get some of that.

About 30 year ago, I fired two .357s from a tent to scare an animal off. It caused permanent tinnitus and progressive hearing loss that continues to this day. I would gladly further sacrifice my hearing in defense of myself or loved ones. I just don't think it's necessary. By the way, after the damage from the 357, even exposure to .22 LR can make it worse. Maybe hearing loss is in my genetic makeup, I don't know. There is probably somebody out there with a loaded .460 Weatherby in their bedroom closet "just in case". I'd just like to go back to the days when my ears didn't hiss. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

Lucky, but not unscathed. Anytime you get ringing In your ears, it's perm hearing damage. You just won't find out till you hit your late 50s or early 60s.
To the op, in a 6", any good 38sp+p will offer a lower report & blast/flash, plus the vel advantage of the longer bbl. If you can find it, the Win 145gr sthp is a great midrange load. Before I would go with the 135gr GDHP, I would find some good old 158gr LHP +p. It should be close to 950fps, a good performer.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I've had tinnitus for over thirty years. I have high-frequency hearing loss in both ears, and the hearing in the left one--the one nearest the muzzle--is seriously diminished. All from shooting without ear protection.

If you have shot for many years without hearing damage I'm happy for you. I know an awful lot of old guys like me who will testify that unshielded muzzle blast is forever.

Apart from that, I think .38 Special is plenty adequate for indoor home defense. Especially if you have a New York reload readily at hand.

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Oh well, what the hell.

. I would like to statistically decrease my chances of being in a defensive shooting as much as possible. My choice for a defensive round will probably be Magsafe. The reason being they've been around at least 35 years, and no matter how long I've looked, I can't find a single verified shooting of a BG with one so far.

I like your reasoning.

Welcome to the forum, and stick around.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I recommend slow and heavy, with a flat head.

Found a 50 round box of Federal +P 158 gr SWCHP lead loads. They chronoed at 910 fps from a 4 inch S&W and 880 fps from a 3 inch, also S&W. I am guessing about 950 fps from a six incher.

This is what I have in my 4" 686 right now.

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Mike
686 no dash

Harry you need to asset your living arrangement, one do you live in a single family home, apartment or condo. Second how close are you neighbors, and would a 357 Magnum round over penetrate? Or would a 38 Special load be a better option? Me I live in a single family home and what fit's my arrangement is my Model 64 with Remington 158 Gr LSWC HP +P.

I my S & W 640 Pro 357 loaded with Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P in 38 Special. I feel very comfortable they will do the job.

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