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Old 04-14-2015, 03:29 PM
Mac!Gettothechoppa'! Mac!Gettothechoppa'! is offline
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Best Home Defense round for heavily muscled and fat guys? Best Home Defense round for heavily muscled and fat guys? Best Home Defense round for heavily muscled and fat guys? Best Home Defense round for heavily muscled and fat guys? Best Home Defense round for heavily muscled and fat guys?  
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Cool Best Home Defense round for heavily muscled and fat guys?

What are the best calibers to stop some guy built like Arnold was at his prime or a fat assailant with a 50-to-54 inch plus waistline? If penetration counts would 45 Colt or 454 Casull out of my Ruger Alaskan 2.5-inch barrel or my S&W 460 (8'3/8) be considered overkill or self defense? I've seen fat guys shot with 9mm that never penetrated beyond the layers of fat to reach any muscle or vital organs. My LE friends say "family comes first, jury selection comes second"...bigger is better unless you live in an apartment building, etc.
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Old 04-14-2015, 03:36 PM
Elliot45 Elliot45 is offline
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Get you a Smith and Wesson M&P15 Sport AR15 for $530 (less than many handguns) and shoot the 5.56mm and you will never have to second guess again. Regards, Jim
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Old 04-14-2015, 03:40 PM
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One .45 acp 185 gr jhp to vitals should be sufficient.

Last edited by Laketime; 04-14-2015 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 04-14-2015, 03:47 PM
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My idea for things that go "Bump" in the night ..
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Old 04-14-2015, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac!Gettothechoppa'! View Post
What are the best calibers to stop some guy built like Arnold was at his prime or a fat assailant with a 50-to-54 inch plus waistline? If penetration counts would 45 Colt or 454 Casull out of my Ruger Alaskan 2.5-inch barrel or my S&W 460 (8'3/8) be considered overkill or self defense? I've seen fat guys shot with 9mm that never penetrated beyond the layers of fat to reach any muscle or vital organs. My LE friends say "family comes first, jury selection comes second"...bigger is better unless you live in an apartment building, etc.
That statement about the 9 is so broad. Where did they get shot? What manufacturer did the ammo come from? Did anything else play a part? Why does waistline matter? Everything vital is above that. I know of one guy who got shot in the back with 3 rounds of 5.56 and lived. It was Wolf fmj. There are plenty of stories of people surviving 45, 357, 308, 12 G and even one guy who survived TWO nuclear bombs!

What if you shoot that 454, miss and by the time you get back on target from that recoil Arnold is already pounding your face in? Bigger is better unless you live in an apparent. ..OR ....houses built close together

shot placement is what counts.
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Old 04-14-2015, 04:23 PM
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18" Mossburg 500/590 in 12 gage... for Arnold...... slugs.....

Oh ya ......... skip the pistol grip option ..... get a full butt stock.

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Old 04-14-2015, 04:31 PM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is offline
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If you need to go with a handgun rather than a long gun get something of a decent caliber loaded with solids if you think penetration will be a serious issue. The .454 is probably overkill.
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Old 04-14-2015, 04:38 PM
Mister X Mister X is offline
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I'm fine with nine against any two legged predators no matter how big they are as long as I've got quality modern ammunition.

Some good recommendations https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....f-Defense-Ammo
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Old 04-14-2015, 05:00 PM
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12 gauge 3" 00 Buck
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Old 04-14-2015, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac!Gettothechoppa'! View Post
What are the best calibers to stop some guy built like Arnold was at his prime or a fat assailant with a 50-to-54 inch plus waistline? If penetration counts would 45 Colt or 454 Casull out of my Ruger Alaskan 2.5-inch barrel or my S&W 460 (8'3/8) be considered overkill or self defense? I've seen fat guys shot with 9mm that never penetrated beyond the layers of fat to reach any muscle or vital organs. My LE friends say "family comes first, jury selection comes second"...bigger is better unless you live in an apartment building, etc.
Take a look at Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator ammunition. They have various calibers that go deep enough. Good luck!
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Old 04-14-2015, 05:58 PM
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I will bring the coffee. ;>)
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Old 04-14-2015, 06:52 PM
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BULLET-PLACEMENT ,WE DROPPED A 1000+ BULL WITH ONE 22LR round nose.

Last edited by jeeps; 04-22-2015 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:20 PM
Wyatt p. Tato Wyatt p. Tato is offline
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Tell him ... oh look barbells... Then shoot him in the knee no matter how big the knee really hurts.
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:41 PM
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12 gauge 3" 00 Buck
2 3/4" 00 is just as good. Perp won't notice the difference; recoil will be more controllable.
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:53 PM
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Just smear jello all over the floor...........
if it will stop a Giant chicken heart, it will work on any humans.
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac!Gettothechoppa'! View Post
What are the best calibers to stop some guy built like Arnold was at his prime or a fat assailant with a 50-to-54 inch plus waistline? If penetration counts would 45 Colt or 454 Casull out of my Ruger Alaskan 2.5-inch barrel or my S&W 460 (8'3/8) be considered overkill or self defense? I've seen fat guys shot with 9mm that never penetrated beyond the layers of fat to reach any muscle or vital organs. My LE friends say "family comes first, jury selection comes second"...bigger is better unless you live in an apartment building, etc.
Use the same thing that's best for bear . . . (my work here is done)
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Old 04-14-2015, 08:09 PM
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Shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is just angels dancing on the head of a pin(I don't own this, but it is true).
For a 9mm I use the Federal EFMJ, Expanding Full Metal Jacket. It looks like a FMJ with a flat metplat, but it does penetrate and it does expand. For a .38 Special I still like (after about 40 years) the 158 gr SWCHP, known as the FBI or Chicago load. It works, even out of a snub. With a .380 ACP I use the Buffalo Bore hard cast lead flat point, with the 380 you need penetration, a mag full of the above will alter anyone's concentration. Just about any .40 round above 135 gr will give both penetration and expansion (unless its FMJ). The 10mm and .45 ACP both will stop just about anyone. My personal favorite is the .45 Colt from Buffalo Bore, a 300 gr flat point at about 1,000/900 FPS. It is a hard cast lead slug and will get the absolute attention of anyone or anything if you do your part.
The .357 SIG and the .357 Mag revolver round are about the same with the 125 gr JHP, the .357 Mag with the 158 gr JHP is better, AFAIAC.
Take your pick, if you do your part, any of them will do the job. If in doubt about your ability to get a CNS hit (brain or spinal cord) do a pelvic cradle shot, a broken pelvic cradle will put anyone down, but not necessarily out, but they will be immobilized. The you can retreat, of do some anchor shots.
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Old 04-14-2015, 08:11 PM
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Just smear jello all over the floor...........
if it will stop a Giant chicken heart, it will work on any humans.
I suspect me and you are about the only folks who know the reference! <bumpBUMP><bumpBUMP>
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Old 04-14-2015, 08:13 PM
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12 gauge pump 00 Buck
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:17 PM
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Yeah, 454 is overkill. Heck, a 250 Kieth style semi-wadcutter hardcast over a max load of H110 out of just about any model 29 would go through two Arnolds.

Last edited by petemacmahon; 04-14-2015 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:23 PM
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Get you a Smith and Wesson M&P15 Sport AR15 for $530 (less than many handguns) and shoot the 5.56mm and you will never have to second guess again. Regards, Jim
Use your favorite factory varmint load, a 55 gr or 60 gr plastic tip bullet will blow up / fragment in 2" (thickness of prairie dog). Parts and pieces of the bullet will never exit the attacker unless you hit a leg or arm. 15,000 prairie dogs can't be wrong.
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:27 PM
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The FBI protocols account for multiple contingencies, to include varying physical builds. Choose a round in the caliber of your preference that shows good results under proper testing; if it has confirmed street results, all the better.
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:33 PM
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I have confidence in my 45 acp but shoot what you want. I use to carry a 41 magnum. A 454 would be fine. Just practice so you can soot well.
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:11 PM
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I vote 45-70 in a BFR revolver with a 10 in barrel. Or a 6500gr 2 bore!

This should just about do it

Last edited by Arik; 04-14-2015 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac!Gettothechoppa'! View Post
What are the best calibers to stop some guy built like Arnold was at his prime or a fat assailant with a 50-to-54 inch plus waistline? If penetration counts would 45 Colt or 454 Casull out of my Ruger Alaskan 2.5-inch barrel or my S&W 460 (8'3/8) be considered overkill or self defense? I've seen fat guys shot with 9mm that never penetrated beyond the layers of fat to reach any muscle or vital organs. My LE friends say "family comes first, jury selection comes second"...bigger is better unless you live in an apartment building, etc.
What kind of neighborhood do YOU live in?
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:34 PM
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How do you know in advance if you will be attacked by an Arnold type or a skinny 125 lb runt?
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Old 04-14-2015, 11:16 PM
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Your LE friends are right. First choice IF it will be available, 12 gauge 2.75" 00 or #1 Buck. If a handgun is it, your choices sound OK (although I'd use one of the hotter .45 Colt loads) but I'm sure a .44Mag 240gr HP would be more than sufficient. Which do you shoot best?

BTW, last time I looked, 00 Buck traveled faster out of a 2.75" Mag load than out of a 3" load. Not as many pellets, but faster.
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Old 04-14-2015, 11:17 PM
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getting shot sucks. you WILL go into shock. nothing you can do about it.
im with the troop on shot placement and penetration. that and training.
p.s. that 410 pistol will clear an alley for sure. just point the dog and empty it. nasty.

Last edited by solman; 04-14-2015 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:12 AM
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The shotgun is great IF you have already taken up a defensive position that your handgun enabled you to get to. You cannot control the shotgun while you are rounding up your family and calling the cops. For some strange reason people seem to think they should be pursuing the perp in a home defense situation. This is both foolish and bad tactics. Your strategy should be to protect you and your family. This is not accomplished if you start walking around the house with a mag light and a shotgun. The goal is to not have any shots fired by anyone. Let the police handle it after you have your family in safety.

Ok, but shots are fired! For you guys that might wind up in a situation where you have to use a weapon, when the prosecutor reviews the case he/she is going to absolutely love your using a firearm called "The Judge." Next, she is absolutely going to go orgasmic when she sees the size of "The Judge" compared to a "sensible" sized gun for home defense like the LCP. Prosecutors win cases against good private citizens with drama, not with truth. If you are using a gun for home defense make sure it looks as totally plain Jane as your toaster oven, not from some movie called "Cyborg Wars 2089." Even worse, use a gun that you built and you manufactured the ammo for and you are about to begin living with a group of people that you didn't even know existed for the next many years.

Oh, one last thing. Don't use ammo with Zombies on the box. Or, for that matter, "deep penetrating", "massive shock", or "devastating" etc. The prosecutor is going to hand that box around the jury for them to see and then place it on her desk for the remainder of the trial. Congratulations, you are now officially a "gun nut" out to kill in the eyes of the jury.

Last edited by SpecRacer; 04-16-2015 at 12:27 AM. Reason: Mistake
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:49 AM
S&W SS Revolvers S&W SS Revolvers is offline
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BULLET-PLACEMENT ,WE DROPPED A 1000+ BULL WITH ONE 22LR.
Bullet placement...that sure is right! After that mostly I think one must consider their dwelling situation so that over penetration isn't a problem affecting innocent others (and providing gun grabbers with another nail in our coffin).

The Governor on the surface seems to be perfect for home defense yet a thread here sometime back suggested otherwise. We are still kicking a Governor around. At our house (brick) with mostly other brick homes and decent separation I have .357 Federal HydraShoks in my room and the wife .38+P Spls HydraShoks in her room.

At the end of the day personal preference dictates as long as there is no damage to your neighbor's who ain't involved...

Last edited by S&W SS Revolvers; 04-16-2015 at 12:51 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:18 AM
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" ... absolutely going to go orgasmic when she sees the size of "The Judge" compared to a "sensible" sized gun for home defense... .
Prosecutors win cases against good private citizens with drama, not with truth.
We have all heard about the "hair trigger", using your own reloads, sensible sized gun?? How would that compare with "Sensible gun laws"?
Could you document "ONE" case where the "size", "caliber", "name" ( of gun or ammo) was the reason that a person was convicted? I would really appreciate the information, I think many other would also. Thank You, Be Safe,
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Old 04-16-2015, 02:31 AM
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Big guns are great if you're outdoors. Apart from the over penetration of a round like the .454 Casull think about what it will do to your ears in a confined space. Even magnum rounds could bust your ears without ear protection. I use a 9mmP with Corbons for home defense. I think my .357 and .44 would do me unnecessary harm deploying it indoors in a confined space.

Yep some will say grab your ear protection! I like to hear what's going on around me and don't have anything like Wolff's ears ear protection. What will you be grabbing when something goes bump? Your gun or your muffs?
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:04 AM
ImprovedModel56Fan ImprovedModel56Fan is online now
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The shotgun is great IF you have already taken up a defensive position that your handgun enabled you to get to. You cannot control the shotgun while you are rounding up your family and calling the cops. For some strange reason people seem to think they should be pursuing the perp in a home defense situation. This is both foolish and bad tactics. Your strategy should be to protect you and your family. This is not accomplished if you start walking around the house with a mag light and a shotgun. The goal is to not have any shots fired by anyone. Let the police handle it after you have your family in safety.

Ok, but shots are fired! For you guys that might wind up in a situation where you have to use a weapon, when the prosecutor reviews the case he/she is going to absolutely love your using a firearm called "The Judge." Next, she is absolutely going to go orgasmic when she sees the size of "The Judge" compared to a "sensible" sized gun for home defense like the LCP. Prosecutors win cases against good private citizens with drama, not with truth. If you are using a gun for home defense make sure it looks as totally plain Jane as your toaster oven, not from some movie called "Cyborg Wars 2089." Even worse, use a gun that you built and you manufactured the ammo for and you are about to begin living with a group of people that you didn't even know existed for the next many years.

Oh, one last thing. Don't use ammo with Zombies on the box. Or, for that matter, "deep penetrating", "massive shock", or "devastating" etc. The prosecutor is going to hand that box around the jury for them to see and then place it on her desk for the remainder of the trial. Congratulations, you are now officially a "gun nut" out to kill in the eyes of the jury.
Survive the encounter. Use a war-time Nazi pistol with ****** Killer engraved on one side of the slide and Death to the **** on the other, if that's your best big-guy stopper (it probably isn't). Use the best penetrating ammo you can get. If you are afraid of the name, throw away the box. Don't throw away the ammo.

I am not a lawyer. If you think I'm wrong, consult one IN YOUR AREA, and ask about money-back guarantees on your life.

Be sure of what's behind your target if you use a .416 Rigby, or even a .44 Mag.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:11 AM
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I suspect me and you are about the only folks who know the reference! <bumpBUMP><bumpBUMP>
"It ate up the Jersey Turnpike!"
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:24 AM
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Default The Exception Is The Rule?

It seems to me that you want to arm for the exception unless you already have a specific target in mind. I think that any popular self defense caliber will do just fine. Rounds that meet the FBI protocol must penetrate a minimum of 12 inches but not more than 18 inches. That should cover anyone still capable of walking on his own two feet.

As someone else said here, the abdomen is not your primary target unless he's wearing body armor, in which case, police are taught to disable the target by shooting to the pelvis.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:33 AM
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"It ate up the Jersey Turnpike!"
Count me in. I used to fall asleep to that album every night as a youngster.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:37 AM
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Don't know where you live, SpecRacer, but Castle Doctrine in my state puts all that **** to bed. In my state, you run what you brung. Shoot 'em with what you got.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:12 AM
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Laws are rarely "sensible", they are but reflections of what Sir Thomas More called the "times".

In our "times" the thug has the government and the community on his side. Every thug today is an honor student, a gentle giant, a sweetheart with his middle school graduation picture in the papers who was just thirsty, needed to use a phone, had to go to the bathroom or who was lost.

As for names, there are hundreds starting with Bernhard Goetz, thirty years ago, through Ferguson and today a neighborhood near you.

Prosecutors have absolutely no interest that you survived an "encounter." So, go ahead, get SOCOM .458, hair triggers, 50 round magazines, reloads, military paraphernalia, ammo boxes with Zombies and give the local prosecutor a better reason to charge you, getting tons of media coverage for herself and taking another giant step forward to the governors mansion. If you don't think this is true, then you need to look at the prosecutor's behavior during the Zimmerman case.

It is not the conviction that destroys your life, it is the charge!!!
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:31 AM
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Laws are rarely "sensible", they are but reflections of what Sir Thomas More called the "times".

In our "times" the thug has the government and the community on his side. Every thug today is an honor student, a gentle giant, a sweetheart with his middle school graduation picture in the papers who was just thirsty, needed to use a phone, had to go to the bathroom or who was lost.

As for names, there are hundreds starting with Bernhard Goetz, thirty years ago, through Ferguson and today a neighborhood near you.

Prosecutors have absolutely no interest that you survived an "encounter." So, go ahead, get SOCOM .458, hair triggers, 50 round magazines, reloads, military paraphernalia, ammo boxes with Zombies and give the local prosecutor a better reason to charge you, getting tons of media coverage for herself and taking another giant step forward to the governors mansion. If you don't think this is true, then you need to look at the prosecutor's behavior during the Zimmerman case.
Almost all quite reasonable points, IMO, but they should be considered only AFTER one has made the best choice to survive the encounter. Prosecutors' attitudes are no danger whatsoever to a dead victim.

Bernie Goetz was prosecuted primarily because $*^^#%-#$%^)^& )(*%&$*^( #$%)(%&*)( $%^&* $$%Y*& &&, not because of what his gun looked like or which box his ammo came from.
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It is not the conviction that destroys your life, it is the charge!!!
That's if you survive the assault, not if you fail to stop it. If you compromise on your weapons or ammo, you may not have to worry at all about a prosecutor for an entirely different reason.

Don't put the cart in front of the horse.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:37 AM
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We have went from "bear gun" threads to "Fat guy gun "threads....
What next "fat bear gun" threads???????
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:44 AM
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Don't know where you live, SpecRacer, but Castle Doctrine in my state puts all that **** to bed. In my state, you run what you brung. Shoot 'em with what you got.
You are so right. SC has no "act responsible" clause. If they are in your house or in your car they are presumed to be engaged in unlawful activity. Now, why one would want to confront this person on purpose is beyond my ability to reason. I would never approach that person's line of fire. It makes no sense. I would ensure my families safety and take up a defensive position where I have all the advantage and wait for them to come into my line of fire or the cops to arrive.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:52 AM
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dont shoot him let him chase you. big fat *******s tire easy. when he sits down because he cant breath toss him a donought. that should distract him so you can hog tie him. spray paint him and tell the nieghbor hood kids he's a pinyada.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:52 AM
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Count me in. I used to fall asleep to that album every night as a youngster.
Wait...wait...Cosby?

Dang, I remember that now. Lol.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:52 AM
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You are so right. SC has no "act responsible" clause. If they are in your house or in your car they are presumed to be engaged in unlawful activity. Now, why one would want to confront this person on purpose is beyond my ability to reason. I would never approach that person's line of fire. It makes no sense. I would ensure my families safety and take up a defensive position where I have all the advantage and wait for them to come into my line of fire or the cops to arrive.
But what do you shoot the fat *** with when he comes into your line of fire? That was the original question.
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:05 AM
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We have went from "bear gun" threads to "Fat guy gun "threads....
What next "fat bear gun" threads???????
Do you mean like for Haystacks Calhoun?
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:22 AM
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You are so right. SC has no "act responsible" clause. If they are in your house or in your car they are presumed to be engaged in unlawful activity. Now, why one would want to confront this person on purpose is beyond my ability to reason. I would never approach that person's line of fire. It makes no sense. I would ensure my families safety and take up a defensive position where I have all the advantage and wait for them to come into my line of fire or the cops to arrive.
So they don't break into anyone else's house any more. It is your duty. It's why there is a second amendment.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:50 AM
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But what do you shoot the fat *** with when he comes into your line of fire? That was the original question.
Stock version of Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 with no. 4 turkey shot. Then keep your mouth shut. Shut! You have nothing to say to anyone. Call a lawyer. Anything you say CAN AND WILL be used against you.

For some strange reason folks here think that the only thing they can be charged with is a homicide in a "defensive"shooting. Wrong. You can be charged with a whole host of things, none of which is excused by the "castle doctrine." And, if you are like the fellow who said "Bernie Goetz was prosecuted primarily because $*^^#%-#$%^)^& )(*%&$*^( #$%)(%&*)( $%^&* $$%Y*& &&,", you will likely be getting a call from the justice department.

Remember that a simple reckless endangerment charge, even if dismissed, is likely to cost you $10.000 to $15,000 in legal fees.

Another thing worth remembering is, would your wife be happier burying you, or having the bank come to the door to foreclose on HER home. Ask her, you will be surprised by the answer. LOL
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:00 AM
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It's not all about you, SpecRacer. You have a duty to protect your community.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:15 AM
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I'm casting my vote for 357 magnum. At least a 4 inch barrel, and let's go with 180 grain hard cast lead.

Sternum shot, 2 inches below the clavicle. If he lives through that then God hates you or the guy is Superman
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