Could any of you tell me if the cost savings (approx. $.22/rnd delivered) of currently produced steel-cased Russian 9mm ammo (Barnaul) would be offset by premature wear of my M&P9c or PPQ?

I'd rather buy and use ammo produced domestically, but it seems in current times it's becoming increasingly difficult to know just exactly where and by whom our ammo is produced...maybe I just haven't done enough research.

WallyWorld white box is now up to .30/rnd (.095 percent tax), and so the reason for this thread.

Thanks.

No way of knowing. I've been shooting them in my Glock for years and all barrels are factory. The wear is a two part problem 1st the bullet. 2nd the heat. Lucky gunner did this test but they dumped over 10 thousand rounds per rifle in one day (overall they dumped 50 thousand rounds in one day). The extreme heat from all day mag dumps caused a lot of the wear.

My main issue with Euro-made ammo is not so much the steel case, but the cheap, cruddy, dirty powder they use. Glock, XD, Beretta, Walther and other Euro-Made guns will run great with Euro-Ammo. They're made to run on steel cases and Euro-Powder.

Have you checked out Federal's Aluminum cased ammo at WM?
$10/50 ($0.20/round) plus tax and American made to SAAMI standards. This price should offset the cost of shipping (along with the waiting for it to arrive).

Since most of us don't peel off 50,000 rounds in a day.......
with metal case ammo.....

I would just be looking at getting a spare ejector, just in case
it received wear from said ammo.

It is nice to have clean ammo but I clean my weapons after a
50 round session, any way, unless I will be back in the field the following day.
Then just a quick barrel and mag area wipe down with go-go juice and a rag
to knock off the big stuff.

I agree. I always shot steel case tulammo and the only complaint I had was how dirty it was, then federal started making aluminum case ammo which not only shoots cleaner but is a couple dollars cheaper at walmart, so I made the switch and haven't shot any steel case in my 9mms since.

I used to NEVER shoot that stuff. Then recently, in the interest of economic sensibility, I bought a few boxes. . .

Like others have mentioned already, very dirty.

What made me get rid of it all for free was THREE SQUIBS IN THREE RANGE SESSIONS.

A vast majority of what I shoot through all my firearms is my own personal handloads. Prior to this I've never had one squib in over 30 years of shooting. I won't tolerate abysmal performance and potentially dangerous / life threatening situations to save a few pennies.

Made it real easy to justify the Dillon 650XL sitting on my bench now

Just our experience here but we are running 20% + FTF with Tul and Wolf with unaltered striker fired weapons. When using hammer guns, between the whack of the hammer and the mass of a steel firing pin this goes to about 2%. We had a match here on March 15th for Special Forces Scholarship Fund and used 3 G17s and Federal 115 gr brass ammo and had 0 malfunctions in over 3,000 rounds. Just our experience in the past month or so will stop any further steel case imported ammo. The deep seated primers that seem to be a little hard and the striker fired systems don't work well here.

Oh yeah... Forgot about primers. Many Euro-Ammo is made with harder primers than U.S. made ammo. With many brands, it's not an issue, but with some U.S. made pistols, it does make a difference.

And yeah... The QC of powder loads has been cause for discussion in some Euro-Made ammo.

Brassed case Monarch 9mm found at the Academy is cheap & by far better than the steel case stuff. I wouldn't use steel case ammo. steel casings do not expand like brass cases do and that can lead to a build up of carbon in the chamber & if you were to then switch over to brass case ammo it can cause feeding problems, failures to eject etc. Unless you give the chamber a very good scubbing first.

Have yet to see that happen

Freedom munitions has 1000 rds for &200.00. Reman. but good ammo. Brass cases.

Unless you shoot an awful large amount of the steel ammo, probably the only difference you will see is a dirty gun.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I have shot a lot Brown Bear steel cased ammo but had to be more diligent in cleaning the chamber afterwards.

The Academy store has Monarch steel case 9mm for $10.99 box of 50. Brass case is at $12.99 for a box of 50. I've used their brass case 9mm & .380 and had zero failures, the ammo is a bit more snappier than say WWB, but it's also a bit more dirtier. For bulk shooting at the range and if you dont feel like ordering & waiting for UPS I'd give this stuff a "shot".

Haven't tried any handgun calibers in the Russkie loads, but have been using Wolf and Silver or Brown bear in the AR, almost exclusively. Mine seems to like it, being 'minute of hedge apple' out to almost 300 yards before I have to hold over (50-yard zero); and just to see how long it would take to dirty up the gun enough to malfunction, a couple of times I've run over 500-600 rounds before giving up and cleaning the gun. Patches come out filthy, but the gun keeps chugging.

I'd use some in the 9mm or .45, but agree with the idea of keeping a spare extractor handy--at least until the ammo proves itself. Acebow

I use commercially reloaded stuff in once fired brass rather than the East European steel cased stuff. Up here the cost is actually less.

Here's my experience, take it for what it's worth.

1. The primary issue is with the bi-metal jacket. The jacket is mild steel that is copper washed. That sits over soft lead. Steel is harder than copper. It will wear out your barrel faster. How much faster? Hard to say. A pistol doesn't operate at rifle pressures. The barrel is shorter... etc.

2. The steel case isn't as ductile as brass. It expands in the chamber but then contracts. This contributes to steel case shooting dirty.

3. The propellant used doesn't burn the cleanest.

4. Some Russian manufacture ammo is lacquer coated. I stay away from that like the plague. The heat in the chamber cooks off the lacquer, it builds up into a gooey burnt up mess.


WWB and FC used to shoot cleaner, now not so much. Points 2 & 3 are now moot. As for the bi-metal jacket eroding the lands & grooves at an accelerated rate, that would occur over a few thousand rounds. At the point where I wear out a barrel, I'll have to worry about the entire pistol approaching the end of it's service life. To me, a moot point.

I'd still be shooting Russian manufacture, steel case, bi-metal jacketed pistol ammo if the ranges near me had not banned it's use.

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-John

The last Tula I shot was at an indoor range.

Since I was by myself, I practiced on three targets. EVERY shot caused sparks on the steel walls and floor of the indoor range.
At home, I pulled a bullet and picked it up with a magnet. Then I went to their website and read about bi-metal bullets.

I also pulled a Wolf and a Monarch. You can pickup their bullets with a magnet.

I don't know how long it will take to wear out my M&P, but it won't be with any of that stuff.

I see a case for sale of Blazer Brass for 23.5 cents per round including shipping. Personally, I'd need a bigger differential to run steel cased ammo. Reason being, as mentioned already, steel ammo tends to have some really nasty gun powder and second, the brass is worth something even if you don't reload. I'm sure if you pick it up, someone will give you 1 to 2 cents per case.

Check out ammoman.com. I'm not endorsing that site, but I have done business with them with no issues and I figure since they include shipping, they are the highest I will pay for a case of ammo.

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18-4, 15-4

i figure the small difference isnt enough for me and how i shoot to bother with steel case and any issues it may present. I've been able to get UMC and Blazer 9mm brass between 11.99-12.99 +/- from places like Dicks, Cabelas, Gander and as i have had 0 issues with those rounds i'll just stick with what i know works. That and at least some ranges may not allow steel to be ran (something to check out ahead of a visit).
Guess when I start to go thru more then a few hundred rounds a month, i may as well take up reloading to help out.

I've only tried it with my Beretta Centurion. Dirty dirty dirty and lots of stovepipes. Not worth the savings.

I want to thank you all for responding to my question. Some of you have made me aware of shortcomings (or potential shortcomings) of the Russian ammo. I haven't yet seen the Federal aluminum-cased ammo at WM, but I'll ask at their hunting/fishing counter about it.

For the amount of shooting I'm currently doing (50-100 rnds per month per pistol/revolver), I can't justify the use of steel-cased ammo for the $ savings.

I'll just look for brass/aluminum cased ammo (locally, if possible), and just enjoy shooting within my financial means without worrying about any of the possible negative consequences of cheaper steel-cased ammo.

Thanks again, and have a great week everybody.

just popping in, noticed Cabelas has some good brass 115fmj ammo on sale between $12-13 per 50. Play the "ship to store" game (or they show $5 shipping over $99) and it may be a reasonable way to grab some good range ammo. At least the cost gets closer to steel cased that's out there. Works for me anyway.