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Old 12-12-2015, 03:33 PM
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Default 357 Magnum load to mimic carry load

What's a good .357 round to practice with. I'm looking for something similar to the punch a Buffalo Bore short barrel load will give as that will be my carry round.

Instead of firing 10-15 rounds of 30.00/box ammo at every practice session I'd like to do the same with cheap target ammo.

Most of my practice will be with .38, though I'm open to suggestions on a light .357 practice load and then a heavier load (that mimics the expensive carry ammo) to finish off the practice round.
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:00 PM
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I can not help you on BB as I have never handled any let alone fired it

If you are looking for a system, Winchester offers their Train and Defend line. Both the premium jacketed hollow point and the inexpensive target ammunition are loaded to provide the same point of aim/point of impact along with identical recoil forces.

It is almost impossible to duplicate POA/POI and recoil of an unknown load.

Just go an buy a comparable weight projectile and be done with it.
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:48 PM
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Shoot what you carry; carry what you shoot.
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Old 12-12-2015, 06:27 PM
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What's a medium load fmj round out there that I may find in Walmart or the like, in 125 grain.

For example the defense ammo Remington golden sabres are know as medium powered magnum loads, while the Winchester pdx1 or federal 357 magnum is known as as more of a full house load.

I'd like to know what medium fmj loads are available. I didn't have time to read up and now I'm out and about with no time before I hit the range tonight.
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Old 12-12-2015, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gregintenn View Post
Shoot what you carry; carry what you shoot.
That sounds great. But how do you do it? Shoot 100 rounds of expensive SD ammo every month - at around $0.75-$1.00 a round, or use your cheap target ammo for carry in your SD gun?

I know I can't afford the former, and don't like the idea of the latter, so I reload target ammo that mimics my carry ammo as closely as possible to be able to afford to practice enough to maintain my proficiency.

I think that's kind of the gist of the OP's question.

Last edited by BC38; 12-12-2015 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 12-12-2015, 07:38 PM
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That sounds great. But how do you do it? Shoot 100 rounds of expensive SD ammo every month - at around $0.75-$1.00 a round, or use your cheap target ammo for carry in your SD gun?

I know I can't afford the former, and don't like the idea of the latter, so I load target ammo that mimics my carry ammo as closely as possible to be able to afford to practice enough to maintain my proficiency.

I think that's kind of the gist of the OP's question.
Reload?????
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Old 12-12-2015, 07:47 PM
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like ggintenn said...reload.
The cost of a reloading outfit will pay for itself in a short time ,,and you can make exactly the loads you want.
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Old 12-12-2015, 07:55 PM
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Reload?????
Exactly, that's what I meant when I said
"I load target ammo that mimics my carry ammo"

I guess for the sake of clarity I should have said
"I RELOAD target ammo to mimic my carry ammo".
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Old 12-12-2015, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post

Just go an buy a comparable weight projectile and be done with it.
I can't blame you for not wanting to blow through a lot of SD ammo at the range. I also seriously doubt if you ever wind up in a gunfight that you will notice that your chosen SD ammo feels or shoots any different than almost any practice ammo you've used. Try this a couple of times at the range: Load up a cylinder with your practice ammo and 2 or 3 rounds of your SD ammo. Spin the cylinder and shoot all 6 at combat speed. If you don't feel an obviously noticeable difference between rounds, (or big difference in POI) then that FMJ should be reasonable practice for shooting your SD ammo.
I haven't shot any Buffalo Bore, since I don't use my .357 for SD, but if you want some pretty hot practice ammo, Cabela's has their Herters .357 for $19.19/50 and you can get free shipping on a $50 order. I shot Magtech and Herter's the other day, and the Herter's is a whole world hotter. It's 158 gr, though.

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Old 12-12-2015, 08:16 PM
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This is all great info, and I'd love to discuss it. But right now I'm out and about running a million errands with no time to do anything but stop by a gun store on my way to the range. Or a Walmart or bi Mart. I'm just looking for some 3587 ammo that isn't water down and might as well be 38 special ammo, but not as strong as full house Magnum loads. Simply wondering if there's any FMJ that's not an arm and a leg. 125 grain.

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Old 12-12-2015, 08:43 PM
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Shot some of the Herter's stuff in practice recently. Pretty hot, and made my 686+ hop around a bit. Well above .38 Spl in noise and recoil.
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Old 12-12-2015, 08:49 PM
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Default My approach

I started the following discussion thread on the same subject not long ago.
Fine tuning my factory duplicate reloads

Before deciding on Remington Golden Saber 125 JHP I tried your Buffalo Bore load. In my gun the Rem was a bit more accurate but the ballistics and the point of impact (POI) was very similar. Bottom line: 125 grain Hornady XTP bullet over 14 grains of Vit N110 with a CCI 550 primer in a Starline case. Exactly the same POI, recoil, flash and blast...as far as can measure by the seat of my pants.

Keith
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Old 12-12-2015, 09:25 PM
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I just want a FMJ equivalent to my defensive round, which right now is Buffalo Bore short barrel .357 in 125 grain.

Doesn't have to have exact poa/poi. I'm not shooting competition. Just has to have a similar recoil and overall feel to it so I can begin and end my practice rounds without blowing through $1.50 ammo.

Simple as that. I don't understand how this topic got so off course so quickly and in so many different ways.

In any event I got some Armscor 125 grain FMJ. Also picked up some Golden Sabre for the fun of it. I'll compare it to the BB, mostly out of the steel J-frame.
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Old 12-13-2015, 04:55 AM
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Armscor 125 grain FMJ in .357 to buff bore 357 TSB is a good mix. It is like practicing with 115 FMJ in 9mm and going to a 124 +P.

Go to a full defense load and there's just a little extra kick.

The Golden Sabers were OK. The Buffalo Bores.... They kick but aren't unmanageable. I'll work on a practice load that has a bit more kick but until then I"m happy with the Armscorp.

Hope this info helps someone .

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Old 12-13-2015, 08:07 AM
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50 round box - 357 Magnum 125 Grain SJHP Hollow Point Remington HTP Ammo - RTP357M1

Can be bought on-line for under $20 a box, almost double that price at brick and mortar stores.
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Old 12-13-2015, 06:50 PM
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50 round box - 357 Magnum 125 Grain SJHP Hollow Point Remington HTP Ammo - RTP357M1

Can be bought on-line for under $20 a box, almost double that price at brick and mortar stores.
How's that stuff compare to the Golden Saber 125s?
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:20 PM
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How's that stuff compare to the Golden Saber 125s?
Never shot GS125.

Even though these are SD rounds in their own rite, I use them for practice rounds for my carry ammo, Federal C357B, which is also 125gr., but more than double the street price.

The characteristics are close enough for practice, though the C357B shoots marginally tighter groups a little bit closer to point of aim.
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Old 12-13-2015, 11:12 PM
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Never shot GS125.

Even though these are SD rounds in their own rite, I use them for practice rounds for my carry ammo, Federal C357B, which is also 125gr., but more than double the street price.

The characteristics are close enough for practice, though the C357B shoots marginally tighter groups a little bit closer to point of aim.
What length barrel are you shooting that stuff out of? The Federal...
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Old 12-13-2015, 11:24 PM
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I always end my target sessions by shooting my carry ammo. It costs a little more, but who cares.
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Old 12-14-2015, 12:15 AM
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I always end my target sessions by shooting my carry ammo. It costs a little more, but who cares.
If I had it, I wouldn't care, but I don't, so I HAVE to care.

Oh, you said some at the end of the session. I can do that with a cylinderful or maybe two.
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:03 PM
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I have it, and I care. Blowing through 35-40 dollars of self defense ammo every range trip is something I choose not to do.
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Old 12-14-2015, 02:02 PM
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What length barrel are you shooting that stuff out of? The Federal...
I SD load the Federal C357B in three 686P's, 2.5, 3, and 4 inch barrels. I run the HTP for SD practice in all three. I tested by loading alternate rounds in the cylinder, and they are almost indistinguishable to me.
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Old 12-14-2015, 07:52 PM
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How's the muzzle flash out of that 2.5"?
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:56 PM
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Ok, I went to the BB website. PDX didn't specify a bullet weight, but I'll guess the 125gr.
It is "lighter" than BB's HEAVY .357 , but comparing their 4in bbl vels to typical vel claims using 4in vented test bbls it is similar to normal full power 125s . So to simulate the recoil for practice, use whatever inexpensive 125 at hand.

For slightly less recoil try Winchester White Box 110gr.
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:17 PM
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How's the muzzle flash out of that 2.5"?
I never notice any at my brightly lit range. A little louder out of the short barrel.
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Old 12-15-2015, 01:55 AM
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Ok, I went to the BB website. PDX didn't specify a bullet weight, but I'll guess the 125gr.
It is "lighter" than BB's HEAVY .357 , but comparing their 4in bbl vels to typical vel claims using 4in vented test bbls it is similar to normal full power 125s . So to simulate the recoil for practice, use whatever inexpensive 125 at hand.



For slightly less recoil try Winchester White Box 110gr.
I'm using the BB .357 tactical short barrel. I'm shooting out of a 2 1/8" and 2 1/2" barrel. An all steel j-frame, and a scandium body/steel cylinder L frame.

The BB are stout out of both guns. The Golden Sabers were weaker by a bit, and the FMJ ammo I mention above was pretty easy to shoot over and over.

I'd like something FMJ, or cheap, that is at least as potent as the golden saber. The FMJ ammo is great for a majority of the practice but it's not anything like shooting what I'll need to shoot if it comes down to it.

Best way to describe it is like shooting 9mm 115 FMJ, then jumping up to a 124 grain +p defense load.

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I never notice any at my brightly lit range. A little louder out of the short barrel.
I'm gonna have to give this stuff a try. However, I think it's just as expensive as the Buff. Bore....
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Old 12-15-2015, 06:38 AM
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How's that stuff compare to the Golden Saber 125s?
Remington 357M1 is much hotter round than the Golden Saber. I love the GS 357, it is a nice medium load. Rem 357M1 is comparable the the Federal 357B - 125 grains at 1450 fps in a 4 inch bbl. Hot stuff.

I have a hard time finding range ammo in the same mid-range as the Golden Saber round. Remington used to make an 125 grain SJHP medium velocity round, but not anymore. CCI Blazer offers a mild 357 range load, but it uses the heavier 158 grain bullet.

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Old 12-15-2015, 10:34 AM
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I'm gonna have to give this stuff a try. However, I think it's just as expensive as the Buff. Bore....
Brick and mortar store retail prices are steady, at near MSRP, for all the SD ammo. My husband scans for sales, and then we stock up. The HTP ammo can be found at half price, on-line, 40 cents a round.
If you get a Cabelas card, they occasionally give a 20% discount to members, that can be combined with an already on sale item.
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Old 12-16-2015, 06:02 AM
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50 round box - 357 Magnum 125 Grain SJHP Hollow Point Remington HTP Ammo - RTP357M1

Can be bought on-line for under $20 a box, almost double that price at brick and mortar stores.
That stuff is out of stock everywhere online right now in the 125 grain.

Today I went to Walmart on my way to the range and they had the 100 packs of this stuff. Score! I did pay a bit more but hey, still a nice find.

I shot 50 tonight, mixed in my 2" all steel j-frame and 2.5" 386 nightguard.

I did some mixing of the cylinder loads with the Rem. SJHP, BB tactical short barrel, and some Barnes TAC-XPD. The Rem SJHP is hotter than both the BB TSB and Barnes (which is also a short barrel 1200 FPS load).

It also has huge muzzle blast, but it's a great round to start and finish with due to the almost equal recoil to my SD rounds. Much much cheaper. Even when bought at Walmart.

I got 300 rounds so it should last me quite a while if I don't haul off and shoot 50 rounds every time I go to the range.

Thanks for the tip. Now I'll just get some decent .357 FMJ cheapo stuff for in between start and finish. 1000 pack to build up the brass collection. Then I'll start reloading them. Hmmm... maybe my buddy will sell me some lead now that I think of it. He casts it I think..

Anyways...

I bought a chronograph tonight too....

Yep- OCD

Oh ya... on a side note I like the Barnes TAC-XPD better than the Buffalo Bore TSB, both in the 125 grain. Just a tad less punch and a 'rated out of 2" barrel' FPS of a bit more. And.....it's less expensive AND... regularly stocked at Cabellas as is the BB.

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Old 12-16-2015, 06:07 AM
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Brick and mortar store retail prices are steady, at near MSRP, for all the SD ammo. My husband scans for sales, and then we stock up. The HTP ammo can be found at half price, on-line, 40 cents a round.
If you get a Cabelas card, they occasionally give a 20% discount to members, that can be combined with an already on sale item.
Just mentioned that the only Cabela's in Portland OR. has this stuff so I guess I'll get yet another rewards card.

The Barnes is on sale right now, plus has a 5$ rebate up to four boxes. That's 20.00 / box or 1$ /round.
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Old 12-16-2015, 06:11 AM
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Just realized you all were talking about the HTP. I got the UMC 100 packs. SJHP 1450 FPS ....

how much stronger is the HTP? I'm happy with the equivalence of the UMC stuff, curious is all.
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Old 12-18-2015, 04:20 AM
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Just realized you all were talking about the HTP. I got the UMC 100 packs. SJHP 1450 FPS ....

how much stronger is the HTP? I'm happy with the equivalence of the UMC stuff, curious is all.
From what I understand, the HTP has pretty much replaced the old Express line. It always seems to be the same load as UMC you mention, a SJHP at 1450. But the Express/HTP are just are more premium blend. Usually nickel brass, low-flash poweders, and I think coated primers. I tend to use UMC as a range round, and the Express/HTP as both a range and SD load.
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Old 12-18-2015, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdxrealtor View Post
What's a good .357 round to practice with. I'm looking for something similar to the punch a Buffalo Bore short barrel load will give as that will be my carry round.
They seem to sell 125, 140 and 158gr loads of "short barrel". Which one are you using?
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  #34  
Old 12-22-2015, 10:30 PM
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I load and shoot leadcast during my range session, 100 to 200 rounds. At the end of my shoot I many shoot 6 or 12 rounds of my ccw jhp loads. Just to keep the feel of full power rounds.

If I don't ccw my reloads I carry Winchester silver tips.

Last edited by BigBill; 12-22-2015 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 12-26-2015, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
That sounds great. But how do you do it? Shoot 100 rounds of expensive SD ammo every month - at around $0.75-$1.00 a round, or use your cheap target ammo for carry in your SD gun?

I know I can't afford the former, and don't like the idea of the latter, so I reload target ammo that mimics my carry ammo as closely as possible to be able to afford to practice enough to maintain my proficiency.

I think that's kind of the gist of the OP's question.
Groo here
It is NOT necessary to "Shoot what you carry" in a revolver [ or an auto]
This is a carry over from when we first started using HP ammo
and autos.
Many would not "feed" the HP so you needed to shoot
the same stuff to make sure it worked.[revolvers eat most anything]
A good accurate load that will not wear you out and a "few" heavies
to make sure they still work and hit where you want,will work fine.
You are working on Grip,Trigger control,Sight alignment etc.
Don't mess your self up with a hard kicking load most of the time.
You will react as you have trained light load or heavy.
We are built that way.
Ever notice if you shoot both revolvers and autos,
You usually shoot both at the same speed???
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