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Old 02-17-2016, 09:47 PM
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Default Speer 38 special 135 gr Short Barrel +P

This ammo is currently available in 50 rd LE boxes for 26.95 with low shipping costs from SG Ammo is Oklahoma. You can look them up with a search online. Personally I think this is the best ammo there is for .38 J frames with 2 to 3" barrels.
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Old 02-17-2016, 10:36 PM
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That's a great deal, thanks for the heads-up.
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Old 02-18-2016, 12:29 PM
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Thanks for info. Just ordered some.
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Old 02-18-2016, 01:16 PM
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Their prices are good, and the shipping costs are reasonable.
I bough a box of the Speer 135 gr. GDHP 38 +P a number of
years ago for use in my S&W 640-1 carry gun. Great company
to do business with.
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Old 02-18-2016, 08:59 PM
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Thanks for the heads up - 2 boxes on the way - should last a long time!
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Old 02-24-2016, 11:12 AM
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Love SG Ammo. Great prices, fast shipping. I've bought a bunch of stuff from them. PS. Love the Speer for my J frames.
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Old 02-25-2016, 03:13 AM
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This was posted sometime back and trying to find it was an ecercise in futility. No one had it. I bought a couple boxes for use in my model 36. Thanks for posting. Probably the best self defense ammo on the market. Frank
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Old 03-07-2016, 02:34 AM
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I got mine ordered. 16 boxes left. THANX for the heads up.
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Old 03-07-2016, 03:20 AM
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SGAmmo is good folks. ALL of my transactions with them have been without issue of any sort.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:08 AM
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Thanks for the heads up. I have been looking for this ammo for many months. Just ordered mine.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:22 AM
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I bought 2 boxes from them a week ago. They ship really fast!
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:12 AM
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Out of stock at SGAmmo but in stock again at:

CCI Speer .38 Special 135 Grain +P Short Barrel Gold Dot Hollow Point - a - 50 Rounds per Box
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Old 03-07-2016, 11:04 AM
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I just bought a box. Thanks for telling me about SGAmmo.
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Old 03-07-2016, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
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I just bought a box. Thanks for telling me about SGAmmo.
They are the reason I'm poor
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Old 03-07-2016, 02:16 PM
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I bought a box and chronographed it out of my 340PD 1.875" barrel last week. It averaged 816 FPS. Speer says that it expands fully at 860 FPS.
FWIW You can see results of a gel test on these rounds at similar velocities here, the photo at the bottom of the page, bottom row. A LOT of other rounds work fine in bare gel, if that is all you need.
<b>.38spl: Hornady FTX vs. Speer 135gr GDHP vs. CorBon 110gr DPX</b>
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Old 03-07-2016, 02:37 PM
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I agree they are what I use in my short barrels and even in the 4" that's rated for plus p. Got it at the same place...SGAMMO is great. Ship fast and just a great company.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:01 PM
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One gentleman here had them expand at 800 fps and there was a picture of them a few years back at under 800 fps that had expanded in a gel test.

The 135gr did not work too good when first brought out but the company went from six up to seven pedals and solved the problem with expansion at the lower fps in a 38 snub nose.

One reason the 125gr Gold Dot is not the best in a 2" and does a lot better out of a 4" barrel or longer, when it can get past 900 fps and into the 945fps true +p speeds.
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Old 03-08-2016, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
One gentleman here had them expand at 800 fps and there was a picture of them a few years back at under 800 fps that had expanded in a gel test.

The 135gr did not work too good when first brought out but the company went from six up to seven pedals and solved the problem with expansion at the lower fps in a 38 snub nose.

One reason the 125gr Gold Dot is not the best in a 2" and does a lot better out of a 4" barrel or longer, when it can get past 900 fps and into the 945fps true +p speeds.
I'm looking for some evidence that they expand and perform properly in the low 800 FPS range. Speer does not claim it and I can't find any evidence of them performing in anything beyond bare gel at that speed.
Is your comment about bare gel or something else?
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Old 03-09-2016, 11:00 PM
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Here is an old picture of the "New" 135gr with the seven pedals
that was posted a long, long time ago in a thread.

I think the average was 825fps but there were two loads below 800fps out of the five loads tested. Somewhere in all my files and pictures, there is one with just gel that has five loads under 800fps that managed to open up but they were not pretty.

Maybe someone will find one of those pictures.........
here is the picture of the 825fps average from a 38 snub nose.

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Old 03-09-2016, 11:48 PM
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I agree that Speer load is a great load for short barrel revolvers. I use it because it's extremely accurate in my carry revolver.
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Old 03-10-2016, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittpa View Post
I bought a box and chronographed it out of my 340PD 1.875" barrel last week. It averaged 816 FPS. Speer says that it expands fully at 860 FPS.
FWIW You can see results of a gel test on these rounds at similar velocities here, the photo at the bottom of the page, bottom row. A LOT of other rounds work fine in bare gel, if that is all you need.
<b>.38spl: Hornady FTX vs. Speer 135gr GDHP vs. CorBon 110gr DPX</b>
Those statistics have to be very old. I started using 135grain short barrel about 4 years ago. I've bought it by the case and used a lot of it. I have never seen it in a Gold Box. All of what I have had is Black box and 50rds to the box. This thread was never intended to be a thread about how good it was etc. It was a notice as to it's availability at SGA and many members benefitted.
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Old 03-10-2016, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
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Those statistics have to be very old. I started using 135grain short barrel about 4 years ago. I've bought it by the case and used a lot of it. I have never seen it in a Gold Box. All of what I have had is Black box and 50rds to the box. This thread was never intended to be a thread about how good it was etc. It was a notice as to it's availability at SGA and many members benefitted.

It was the old yellow box product that worked. My new black box velocity correlates with the one they tested that failed. I would not trust it in my gun. Forewarned is forearmed.
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Old 03-10-2016, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
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I bought a box and chronographed it out of my 340PD 1.875" barrel last week. It averaged 816 FPS. Speer says that it expands fully at 860 FPS.
That is incorrect. Speer claims 860 fps from a 2" barrel and full expansion @800 fps. I personally do not like light bullets especially a 110gr bullet in the .38 Special. I just don't understand this obsession with extreme velocities and having to use light bullets to achieve them? Just my opinion of course.

I don't have my notes available right now but I do remember in a M638 that load exceeded advertised velocities. (same 1.875" barrel length)
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Old 03-10-2016, 01:00 PM
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The factory LE box +P 135gr GDHP #53921.......
out of my M49 went across my chrony at an average of 866fps.

Close enough for me.
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Old 03-10-2016, 03:00 PM
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That is incorrect. Speer claims 860 fps from a 2" barrel and full expansion @800 fps..



I don't have my notes available right now but I do remember in a M638 that load exceeded advertised velocities. (same 1.875" barrel length)

Speer claims full expansion at 860 FPS here. http://www.speer-bullets.com/pdf/rel...a/38s135gd.pdf. If you have an information source where Speer claims otherwise, I hope you will provide it so I can take that up with Speer. When I contacted Speer to advise them of my velocity results and my concern with performance at that velocity, one thing they did NOT do was claim that it would perform reliably at that velocity range.
I bought this round with the intent of carrying it. When I realized it's performance may be compromised from certain guns, including mine, I believed you all deserved to be aware of that. The OP included his opinion. I included my relevant data, on which I formulated an opinion for my gun, which is a somewhat common barrel length. I realize everyone does not have a chrono, so the more published results, the better. This is a serious matter; people deserve relevant information.
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Old 03-10-2016, 10:36 PM
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My 1,000 rnds arrived today UPS. I am very pleased to have an abundance of premium ammo in stock. Again, thanks for the heads up.
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Old 03-11-2016, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
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Speer claims full expansion at 860 FPS here. http://www.speer-bullets.com/pdf/rel...a/38s135gd.pdf. If you have an information source where Speer claims otherwise, I hope you will provide it so I can take that up with Speer. When I contacted Speer to advise them of my velocity results and my concern with performance at that velocity, one thing they did NOT do was claim that it would perform reliably at that velocity range.
I bought this round with the intent of carrying it. When I realized it's performance may be compromised from certain guns, including mine, I believed you all deserved to be aware of that. The OP included his opinion. I included my relevant data, on which I formulated an opinion for my gun, which is a somewhat common barrel length. I realize everyone does not have a chrono, so the more published results, the better. This is a serious matter; people deserve relevant information.
I'm not going to play the gotcha games many play on the internet and I'm not going to argue with you but I do not like your inference I'm not being serious. Everyone should do their own research and not rely on anyone on the Internet. It seems so many today just want to ask others to do the work for them, that is not a good idea.

On the sheet you posted they mention full expansion @860 fps because that is the rated velocity of that load. In a roll out video from Speer at their factory on one of the gun shows the Speer engineers stated their 135gr bullet was designed to reliably expand @800 fps minimum and the same bullet is used in both their short barrel 38/357 loads.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
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I'm not going to play the gotcha games many play on the internet and I'm not going to argue with you but I do not like your inference I'm not being serious. Everyone should do their own research and not rely on anyone on the Internet. It seems so many today just want to ask others to do the work for them, that is not a good idea.



On the sheet you posted they mention full expansion @860 fps because that is the rated velocity of that load. In a roll out video from Speer at their factory on one of the gun shows the Speer engineers stated their 135gr bullet was designed to reliably expand @800 fps minimum and the same bullet is used in both their short barrel 38/357 loads.

Show me. Speer won't claim that, now.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:38 AM
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Thanks, flintsghost, I agree with you 100% about this ammo. I carry the 38 version in my 38 snubbies, and the 357 version in my magnum j frames, like my M&P 340 and 340 PD. I've had a couple of boxes on back order from Midway for months now. Extremely hard to find either the 38 or 357 version anywhere near where I live. And then it's the 20 Rd box for like $35 a box. I just saw this thread, and figured that they would be sold out by now. Just logged off and they had 60 some boxes in stock, so they must have gotten more in since you first posted. I am new to this vendor, and thanks also for the tip as to company. I created an account, and will probably be a frequent customer.

I actually "field tested" the 357 version out of my 2" M&P 340. I had just arrived home from work a couple of years ago, (I live on 55 acres in the countryside), and my fiancée's father, who I let hunt there had wounded a deer, which was running towards me. He yelled for me to shoot it if I could, he couldn't because of buildings and direction. All I had was my 340 loaded with the 357 Speer short bbl 135 gr gold dot. I drew and at about 25 yes shot the deer twice. It dropped, and when he field dressed it I had him measure penetration, and recover the bullets. They had penetrated about 14" and I still have them. Both had expanded like something in a commercial, and when I weighed them neither bullet had lost more than a grain or two. They were amazing, and I seldom carry any other round. I even use the equivalent round in 45 auto for my Kimber ultra CDP II, and the 40 version in my old duty issue Glock. Of course those aren't the short bbl versions, but share the bullet technology.

Sorry for the long post, but wanted to share the main reason that I am so hep on this round. It works, and even in the magnum version, is not unmanageable.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:55 AM
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Gee... I had not read all the intermediary posts, I was so excited when I saw the availability of this ammo that I went and ordered some right away. I didn't realize that there was a dispute about the effectiveness of the round. As I noted in my post #29 above, my only experience with using it other than practice was in shooting a deer. I would not have chosen to go hunting with a snub nose 357 in the first place, but that was all I had on me at the time. And I don't know how fast the bullet was traveling, but they both expanded very well. I'm not home right now, but when I get a chance, I'll reweigh them and photograph them and post here. Of course, this was a couple of years ago, and the ammo might have been a year old, and it was 357, so it was probably going a little faster than the 38+P version, so maybe the current production is a little different.... For what it's worth....YMMV
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Old 03-12-2016, 10:36 AM
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Gee... I had not read all the intermediary posts, I was so excited when I saw the availability of this ammo that I went and ordered some right away. I didn't realize that there was a dispute about the effectiveness of the round.
I don't think you'll find any ammo that someone somewhere doesn't take issue with.
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Old 03-12-2016, 10:53 AM
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I don't think you'll find any ammo that someone somewhere doesn't take issue with.
That's probably a good place to leave it.

Les B, I loved that story, a charging wounded deer at 25 yards with a snub. Will look forward to seeing pics, and shooting the 357 versionb from my 340.
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Old 03-12-2016, 05:51 PM
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Well, pittpa, it sounds more dramatic than it actually was, deer was trying to get away from someone else, and was just in the right place for me to shoot from, but the experience made a real impact on me as to the effectiveness of this round. I had originally selected it more or less because it was available (back then at least), and was impressed at this impromptu and unplanned experiment. And looking at in retrospect, this was the 357 version, which although it is relatively mild as a 357, should have just enough more velocity from a 2" bbl to get it over the speed required to attain reliable expansion compared to the 38 +P version. I'm going to have some time off next week, will try to photograph those bullets.
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Old 03-13-2016, 04:32 PM
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A bump for a nearly out supply at SGAmmo. I just ordered a couple of boxes. They had been out of stock from the initial post but must have gotten a bit more. Now they're almost out again. You better be quick if you're on the fence. SGAmmo had been out for a couple months prior to the OP.

I still like this round in my airweight guns. Overall, it has been reviewed as pretty consistent. The idea of weighing the rounds is interesting. I did that with 2 of my current boxes and found about a dozen that were below the "norm" of 209 grains. Not much. Maybe 208.5. BTW, I only had 2 rounds that were above 209.5. Still, I'll probably use those light ones as practice rounds and carry those that are in the higher end. There are too many variables to blame low velocity on overall weight, IMO. It IS one less variable. My lot was pretty consistent.

A 38 snub is all about compromise. Even if it doesn't give picture perfect expansion, the GD 135 gives decent penetration and is accurate in my J-frames. Those two are my highest priorities.
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Old 03-15-2016, 02:31 PM
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TeaDub, Keep in mind that the weight difference in rounds is not always attributed to the powder charge. Brass manufacturing differences in primer pocket depth, the flash made by the flash hole punch and wall thickness differences can account for some of that also. That's why serious reloaders and long range shooters, ream primer pockets, flash holes etc to uniform out the brass when building precision rounds. It would seem powder charges are close enough even dropped that it shouldn't account for all the difference if any. But the decision to weigh rounds and use the most uniform will undoubtedly result in the most accuracy.

Les.b, the recovery of the bullets from the deer is outstanding. Most people I know of don't do that. I have always tried to recover bullets from the Elk and Antelope that I shot since I always used expensive bullets in accurate reloads and wanted to know what the performance was really like.

As far as home grown chronograph results, it always interests me that we never get the atmospheric data on these results. Nor does anyone list the type of chronograph or distance between screens or even distance from the muzzle. For those who use them, it should be noted in most articles where tests are done in major magazines that this data has in the past, normally been included. The other thing I have noticed is that rarely does anyone show average results for 5 shots as professionals use. I have owned and used two different models of home chronograph and found both wanting for accuracy and reliability. In many cases while using I found the brightness of the sun had much to do with my results. I always wanted an Oehler Chronograph and never could come up with one. The small home models that I did have simply didn't get great results and on some days wouldn't give any results. So I personally take those results like a grain of salt. Possibly well intentioned but of no value whatsoever. As a career law enforcement officer, now retired, and having 7 years at a major state Police academy as the chief firearms instructor, I have been relying on Speer and Federal ammunition to save my life and keep the wolf away from the door since 1985 and will keep doing it till my last day. So far the folks at ATK, the parent company of both have been taking care of those of us in harms way pretty well. I don't see any reason to change. I use short barrel ammo because it's optimized for the short barrel guns that I use. I have regular ammo also that is 158 grain Hydrahok .357 full power. I keep it around but until I want to light a cigar 4 feet from the muzzle of my short barreled revolver, I probably won't use it up.

Last edited by flintsghost; 03-15-2016 at 02:35 PM.
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