Hello all, I have a S&W 357 Magnum 686 L-Frame 6" barrel. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience w/ a fave of mine, Hornady. With me having a larger handgun would Hornady's Critical Duty vs Critical Defense be worth the extra cash for personal-defense? If anyone has any experience or help w/ this question I thank you in advance.

The best one shot stop 357 ammo is federal 357b 125 grain. Stick with the best.

There is such a wide variation in 357 Magnum firearms and ammunition that any claims of something being "the Best" cannot be supported by actual statistics. A load designed to be used in a short barrel at the reduced velocity produced by that shorter barrel will fragment if used in a longer barreled firearm. In addition the 357 Magnum is a very rare caliber for Law Enforcement use today, so it's doubtful you will find even one example of a "one shot stop" using a 357 Magnum in a modern loading.

So, when shopping for ammunition you have to rely on the reputation of the manufacturer. In the above case Federal does make very good defensive ammunition. As does Speer, Winchester, or Hornady. My experience with Hornady bullets is from the reloading standpoint and the XTP line is my goto choice for precision rifle and handgun ammunition because they are superbly accurate bullets. As for the Critical Duty versus Critical Defense comparison, basically the bullets share the same basic design so I would consider it a tossup. So I would advise you make your choice based on what is easiest to find and don't worry about a minor difference in the bullet weight.

While the 357 may have fallen from current favor with law enforcement it has a long proven track record in that field as well as in self defense. Arguably it was the gold standard against which all other rounds were compared to. There are two camps in the 357 defensive load crowd. The light high velocity group and the heavier bullet group. Myself I fall into the heavy bullet group. I use 158 grain bullets almost to exclusion of all else. To me the light bullet jacketed bullet loads have to sharp a crack and muzzle blast for a lot of shooting. I have used the 357 on several deer and hogs and a couple of bears. I used 158 grain bullets for all these and they all stayed shot and gave no further trouble. IMO a 357 with 158 grain bullets will get the job done under almost any condition imaginable. The 357 is a good matchup between power and controllability especially in a 6 inch 686. Mine like that is one of the most comfortable easy to hit with 357s I own and I have several. You will be well armed with it and the easy handling makes it fun to practice with.

Nonsense; Marshall & Sanow has been debunked.People really need to stop with the one shot stop, stopping power, knockdown power type stuff.

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K & N S&W revolvers

It seems that any full house 357 works very well if you can hit your target.

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Foster Positivity.

I have read a lot of statistics that claim the federal 125 357b has the highest percentage of one shot stops.

If barrier performance matters to you, I'd believe that most hot 125 gr JHPs would do very poorly while the Critical Duty ammo passes all FBI protocol tests which do include barrier tests.

If you want the hottest stuff I'm aware of, try Buffalo Bore 158gr JHP. I get 1592fps/890 ft lbs out of my 6" barreled Ruger GP100. Don

Buy a few different brands and see what one your gun likes/shoots the best. I have 3 686's in 3 barrel lengths and a 386SCS and all have a different favorite round.

Each weight and sometimes each brand can and will shoot at a different point of impact. The best thing about the 686 you can feed it anything. Also look at the Spear 135 plus P 38. All my L frames love this round

Tony P

The Hornady Defense/Duty line-up appears good overall, getting middling or better results in controlled tests; real-world stats are sparse for this load as it hasn't made in-roads in LE use versus standbys like Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST and Winchester Ranger. This doesn't mean it won't do the job, just that there's less hard data.

Critical Duty is built for LE use and is designed to function barrier blind. Critical Defense is intended for civilian use and is built to function absent barrier issues.

I've shot a lot of both in .357 and think it's an acceptable load but not my first choice. It shoots mid-range hot, not heavy like the classic 125 grain Magnum load; flash, report and recoil are nicely controlled for, but you do know you're shooting a Magnum.

I've put it through several different revolvers and only had problems once -- cratering of the primers related to the firing pin bushing; other Magnum rounds didn't do this in this particular revolver but the Hornady Duty and Defense did, so their pressure might be a bit higher. The same Duty/Defense rounds (from the same batch) had no issue in several other revolvers. Point is, always test your defense ammo in the firearm that will be used.

To echo others here there are lots of different loads that will work well. I haven't ccw'd 357 Mag in a long time but on the occasion that I did I always liked Rem 158-gr SJHP in a 4" gun as I shot well with it.

Under extreme stress, the very best "one shot stop" is accurate placement of the first bullet by the trigger puller.

I have been told that the .357 MAGNUM is such a great SD weapon with any full load .357 at being very good and top of the list...............

that it also works very well with a reduced 38 special 158gr FBI +P loading with even less recoil and noise.

You have a winner.

One cartridge stands above all others in this caliber in the history of American law enforcement: the 125-grain semi-jacketed hollow point loaded to a velocity in the 1,400 fps range (from a 4-inch barrel). Some experts argue whether the wide-mouthed Federal version of this load, or the scallop-jacket Remington version that originally popularized the 125-grain .357 among cops, is the single best of the breed.

It seems to be an argument akin to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. The Winchester 125-grain Magnum load does not have either of those features, but worked every bit as well for such departments as the Maine State Police when they carried .357 revolvers.

This round tends to create a wound channel that is nine to 11 inches deep, but very wide, with tremendous damage around the radius of the wound track. It also has a nasty muzzle blast and pretty sharp recoil. The great combat shooting trainer and champion, Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree.

When departments such as City of Indianapolis Police Department, and the state troopers of Kentucky and Indiana issued that load, there were literally tons of bad guys shot with 125-grain Magnums, and they tended to go down “right now.” Texas Department of Public Safety personnel were known to refer to this round’s “lightning bolt effect,” and I knew Kentucky troopers who called it “the magic bullet.”

Even though velocity dropped considerably from the 2.5-inch barrels of Indiana State Police detectives’ Combat Magnums, or from the 3-inch Military & Police .357s of Indianapolis plainclothesmen, the bad guys seem to go down just as fast. The 125-grain .357 Magnum semi-jacketed hollow point earned its title, bestowed by expert Ed Sanow, as “King of the Street,” and this remains the Magnum load of choice today. I have no personal preference among the Federal, Remington, and Winchester brands.

Defense Loads of Choice: The Word from the Street - Page 2 of 2

Since my .357 guards my house I keep either super .38 +Ps or very low end .357, which I make myself. I don't want to let off full blast .357 inside the house. I'd like for us to keep our hearing.

You won't have to worry about too short of a barrel with a 6".

Hornady XTP bullet has a good reputation. Gold Dots are the best (consistency) as far as I'm concerned but they are hard to find. Remington Golden Saber is good.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Which very likely came from Marshall & Sanow's book which has been debunked. Ayoob is a Marshall disciple (at least he has been historically) - he does not cite any statistically verified source in that quote. Sorry guy's, it seems to me that this is an important enough topic that it needs to be backed up with good verifiable statically valid info - so far I have never seen any from these people. People like Dr. Martin Fackler, and the FBI's Urey Patrick have some good info and if one is interested doing some reading is worth the time invested. I require more than anecdotal police station comments before I will choose any load for self defense. All we can say for sure is how one load compares to another under controlled conditions. But jello blah, blah - look ballistic gel is the best medium we have to use to simulate the human torso - that's just the way it is. Different people react completely different to being shot. Here are 2 real life examples: guy #1(from a self defense class training video) takes 2 12GA slugs to the chest and runs off, goes 100yds. before falling (he could have chosen to fight instead during the time it took to run btw); guy #2, a police officer in IN, is shot once with a .32. He goes straight down and dies (not a CNS hit btw). What this show us is how important a role one's mental perception of being shot plays and how foolish it is to assume one can predict with any validity what any round's "one shot stop capability is". We need to get past the magic numbers, choose something reasonable and move on understanding awareness, mindset and tactics are so much more important.

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K & N S&W revolvers

Lots of people have been killed with a single shot from a .22 LR.

Wouldn't be my choice for a house gun. The blast and flash from a full-house .357 indoors will be disabling to the shooter and anyone else in the room without hearing protection.

The .357 is a great "man stopper" in just about any configuration, there's probably not many who can shake off a well placed round from a .357. One of the reasons, and maybe the biggest it fell out of favor with law enforcement is the fact that it only holds 6 rounds vs. the high capacity of some auto pistols. For concealed carry for civilians 6 rounds is probably more than would be needed in most defense scenarios. I've long said that if you need more than 6 rounds you don't need more ammo, you need help.

That claim was made before modern bullet technology

Hear ye hear ye, Amen and Amen. My favorite load in model 13. Shoots accurate as well

In gel tests I've seen of the 125 grain SJHP magnums, the round typically leave a grisly permanent wound channel caused by the slight fragmentation of the high-velocity exposed hollow point bullet. The partially fragmented bullet still reaches 12-14" in gel. Dumping nearly 600 ft-lbs of energy into that wound track is a sight, and I'm sure one of the reasons why it is such an effective manstopper.

Still, it has some recoil and a harsh muzzle blast. One must train with it to become proficient, and it is the opinion of myself and others that some people are better off with a lighter magnum load or even the .38 special +P in loadings such as the 158 grain LSWCHP (FBI load) if recoil proves to be too much for them.