What's your take on +p ammo?

I'd take it if someone gave it to me. I wouldn't buy it.

It has advantages in certain guns. I carry 124gr 9mm +P Gold Dot in my G19. If I had a sub compact I probably wouldn't. Another good one Gold Dot 135gr +P 38spl. Specifically formulated for maximum expansion and penetration from snub nose revolvers

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Many owner manuals state that continuous use of +P will (only) increase wear & tear on their firearms, but for SD use... sure.
Like Arik, I use GD 124 +P as my SD round. It runs fine in my Shield, XDMc, G26 and G19.

At the risk of a far longer post than most want...

Many points to consider. First is that +P is a genuine industry standard and SAAMI spec, but ONLY in a few places. 9mm, .38 Special and .45. (Some will add .38 Super, but that one isn't... really)

In .38, you're taking a 17,000 PSI max and moving to 18,500 PSI max, so (IMO of course) if it is a modern, quality handgun, it's like nothing. Use to your heart's content.

In 9mm however, you are starting with 35,000 PSI max right from the get-go and asking it (especially if we're talking about a small, lightly constructed pistol) to do more is really asking a lot from it.

Also may be well worth keeping in mind that high quality, expensive and cutting edge defense/performance ammo typically runs a very specific bullet that is designed for it's velocity range. The short version? In many cases, you don't really gain on-target terminal performance even though you are subjecting your handgun to more stress.

I believe the MOST important thing to understand with regards to +P is that if it is -NOT- a real, standardized SAAMI +P, you are willfully feeding your firearm something far more risky.

Buffalo Bore is famous for this nonsense. They make fantastic ammo but their propensity for slapping nonexistent +P labels go outside of SAAMI standards and frankly, I think they are idiots for continuing to do it. Their .380 Auto +P is a prime example but there are others.

When a company willfully chooses to blur the lines on a whim, to go outside established standards... all you can really be sure of is that it's not built to the standard around which the firearm was wholly designed and constructed.

More ad hype than much of anything real. Slightly higher pressures, slightly higher velocities in some guns, and yes, slightly more rapid wear on the gun -- but by that I mean your gun may only go 25,000 rounds without refurbishing instead of 30,000.

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Pisgah

+P ammo is mainly used just for SD ammo.

If you are not getting enough expansion in a standard loading, it may help to move up to the more powerful load.

Most longer barrels do not need the extra fps but snub nose and short pistol barrels of 3" may do better with the higher fps.

However a standard load placed right will do the job with just one or two bullets in most SD cases........... depending on your skill levels.

No expert but I have to think in a self defense application a few more fps may make a difference but probably not. Accuracy is king.
I carry .38spl most of the time. Seems almost all the modern defense loads are +p. I'm sure a lot of that is pure marketing...given the same bullet design most folks will buy the box marked +p. It's supposed to be better right?

It depends on the load, particularly the bullet design and construction. Something like HST or Gold Dot in the semi-auto service calibers (9mm, .45ACP), I don't think it makes much difference; use what you can get. In .38 Special snub loads, +P seems to make those loads work better, but there are non-+P options that would also be acceptable.

+P loads will accelerate wear on your gun, but so long as your gun can handle it occasional use most likely won't be a problem. I'd say probably about 1/3 of the loads I fire in my 642-1 are +P, with the Speer SB-GDHP +P being my favorite carry load. If my gun weren't rated for +P, I may fire 1 or 2 cylinders-worth every 3 or 4 months to make sure I could still shoot it well.

My second favorite load is Buffalo Bore's standard pressure FBI load, but because of the velocities they get with that load I would treat it as if it were a +P even though it's a standard pressure load.

Another thing to consider is how well you can shoot it. If +P makes quick follow up shots difficult for you, stick with standard pressure. If +P makes you flinch in anticipation, use standard pressure loads. Before I got comfortable with shooting the SB-GDHP +P I carried Federal 125gr Nyclad HP (standard pressure) in my 642.

I carry +P in my revolvers but standard pressure is the order of the day for the 9mm & .380. With regard to the 9mm I've only had my Glock 17, Gen 3, for about a week and only had time to shoot FMJ so far.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

For the most part today's +P "FBI loads" from Winchester, Federal and Remington are ballistically equivalent to yesterday's standard velocity loadings.

The best two .38 Special loads that I have personally tested have been the Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain LSWCHP-GC (1025 fps from a 2" Chief's special) and the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grain +P JHP coming in at about 835 also from my 2" Chief's. These are average velocities but neither one of the two bullets above varies much. I have NEVER had a FTF from either one - more than I can say about Remington or Winchesters ammo.

I have to agree that since the middle 1980's the ammo has been
getting "Safer" for the weapons and shooters.
By the year 2004 all the "High-Vel" ammo was pretty much, a done deal.

Todays +P ammo is the old "Full Load" that was able to be used
in any revolver in good shape and working order, with a steel frame.

Well I take that back......
today there is no 148gr wc loading that hits 850 fps out of a 4" barrel, that I know of.

I carry the Buffalo Bore standard pressure 158gr. LSWCHP-GC in a steel snubby every day. It is ballistically equivalent to the older Remington +P FBI load I carried for years, and that one got the job done quite well for decades..

In a halitosis-range self defense situation I doubt a few more feet per second on that heavy bullet would offer much of an advantage. I might try the Speer short-barrel 135gr. +P one day. Or not.

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Oh well, what the hell.

If you want to know "my take" on a specific +P load, the Winchester, Remington and Federal versions of the .38 Spl 158 LSWCHP "FBI Load" go to the 4th post in this thread for documented, chronograph results:

Remington HTP 38 Spl +P 158 gr LHP

To summarize a fairly long post this is the summary paragraph:

"What I am trying to say, if you don't understand on your own, is that the FBI +P load from all makers significantly exceeds 6" plus barrel performance for standard pressure loads for the same bullet weight, even when fired from a 2" barrel!!!! If that doesn't convince you that there is a performance advantage with +P loads, even fired from a 2" barrel, then you are one of those people whose "Mind is made up and will not be confused by facts"!"

Almost everyone who believes there is no value in +P loads is saying "What they believe to be" without supporting evidence. In the post I have compared the "FBI Load" with pre +P .38 Spl 158 gr. LRN "Police loads". Sorry, but in my mind some 200 FPS gain in velocity is a bit more significant than "a few more feet per second" as someone mentioned above! This is nearly a 25% increase!

I carry Plus P in .38's and think it's a vital improvement. But you have to choose the right load. It is sometimes a lot faster than some claim and has better bullet construction.

I suspect that Buffalo Bore's hotter round is a good combat load that won't stress K-frame .357's. Or the smaller Ruger and S&W .357's. I would load full .357 rounds if I thought the situation warranted.

In 9mm, I don't use Plus P much in Berettas or in Browning Hi-Powers, as the stress is a bit heavy for those guns. Change locking blocks in Berettas about every 3,000 rounds.
I do load Plus P Gold Dot and HST in 9mm for larger animals or if in a potential combat situation. Not for range use.

Some good 9mm ammo isn't plus P. I think Speer's famous 9BP round is enough for coyotes and such. Probably heck on raccoons, too. And I'd feel pretty confident with it in battle.

I'd hesitate to shoot much Plus P in Star or Llama autos.

Plus P is a really good deal in .38 Special; not as needed in more potent calibers.

I have chronographed a few different 38 spl +P loads in 2" and 4"
revolvers in 125 JHP and 158 gr LHP bullet loadings. Like Alk said
above I have found velocities to be significantly higher than std
pressure loads even in the short barrels. The only other ctg that I
have any +P experience with is the 9mm. The 9mm situation is a
lot different than that of the 38 spl or most other ctgs in that there
is a wide variation in actual velocities of std factory 9mm rounds
even though listed velocities may be very similar. I haven't chronoed
a lot of different +P 9mms but the same situation seems to exist but
to a lesser degree. However I have found that good +P 9mm loads
are quite a bit faster than most std pressure loads. In guns that are
rated for +P ammo it only makes sense to me to use it in guns
carried for SD.

Remington Gold Saber 124 +P is the most accurate in one of my 9 mm compacts and has good gel test results. Federal HST 147 +P is the most accurate in my micro 9mm and has good enough gel results.

So yes, I use them based on a combo of what functions well and is accurate in my guns and has good numbers for comparison.

If the standard pressure version of a round will get penetration of 12-15 inches of penetration then I won't bother with +P.
Whatever expansion if gets, that's what it gets!

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Stay protected my friends.

Agree with Alk and Alw. I use mainly 38 +P in my 357 Mags, mostly handloaded. They do offer velocity and energy improvements. There is other data out there which further proves Alk points made on actual velocities.

A lot of those old loads if not all were tested by ammo factories in unvented barrels in ambient and ideal conditions. Case in point are the 38-44 loads where I've done extensive research; with numerous examples showing that actual velocities were 50 - 75 + fps slower than advertised. Then I see many attempt to duplicate such loads at their published velocities in revolvers, with loads that are in excess, pressure and velocity wise. I suppose that as long as they are still safe and used in 357 Mags and 38 large frames, all the power to them.

...I meant to quantify that the 38 Spl +P's used in my 357 offer better velocity and energy performance compared to using standard 38 Spl rounds in the 357. I do have some fine 357 loads, but they are not the subject of this posting.