I am looking for a recommendation on a self defense round for the Beretta Tomcat .32acp.

Thanks!

A long stick in the barrel and use it as a hammer.

Seriously, the few times I carried a Baby Browning (don't ask) I used FMJ because I was afraid the bullets would expand and not penetrate. I've got a couple of boxes of Gold Dot and never carried them.

Buffalo Bore makes a 60gr TAC-XP and a 75gr hard cast FN in .32 ACP. If I carried one it would be charged with one of those because of the penetration issue.

I was looking at BB. I have a box of BB +p Tac xp for my .380acp. Don't really carry it that often. The Tomcat is for the wife - specifically to use the tip up barrel because of the ease of loading. Thx!

You may wish to look into this load by Lehigh Defense:

32 Auto 50gr Xtreme Cavitator Ammunition

Agree. Problem with .32 acp is lack of penetration. Buffalo Bore should be the best,be sure to check for function.
Would not use any type of expanding bullet.

Based on my work on over 200 handgun killing cases over the years, on the rare occasions when I am drawn to carry a .32 ACP as a defensive gun, ball is the only way I go.

Shot-placement is king; adequate penetration is queen; everything else is just angels dancing on the heads of pins.

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Sounds like I'll be buying the BB 75gr hard cast FN .

I would not use Buffalo Boar in a Beretta Tomcat you will crack the frame. Too hot for this gun. Beretta puts out a warning with the gun to keep ammo energy under 130 factory spec. I like that leigh high ammo but i just use federal ball ammo which i find velocity from my tomcat to be about 835.

I am in the "don't carry a .32 as a primary SD weapon" camp. I suppose if it's the largest caliber you own it beats nothing, but the .32 acp is NOT what I'd consider a man stopper. Yes, I am sure you can find statistics that show many have died from the .32, however bleeding out a half hour later or dying from complications won't help you at the time a street fight is taking place if the BG is still able to inflict harm. You want a fast stop of aggression - period and the .32 just isn't going to reliably do that.

If you MUST carry a .32acp, I'd agree with Erich here and use Ball ammo. Not only will it give you the best penetration, but it will be the most reliable feeder.

I'd seriously consider stepping up to a larger more viable caliber. Today they make many guns that are not a whole lot larger than yours but carry a lot more stopping power.

I have carried one of my old 1935 Berettas in .32 ACP for SD a few
times but not very often because I have several of the same model
gun as the 1934 in .380 ACP. I also have smaller and lighter .380s.
I don't buy the expensive hot ammo like BB for my guns. I just use the
best FMJ factory loads in each caliber according to my chronograph.
The hottest .32 ACP ammo around seems to be S&B. It has a 73 gr
FMJ bullet rather than the std 71 gr and yields higher velocity than
any other brand that I have ever seen. I have seen the gel test
results of it on the net and the bullets often tumble creating a
larger wound channel. In my own penetration tests in pine or redwood
it is the only .32 ACP load that consistantly outpenetrates all .380
FMJ loads. It averages about 970-980 fps out of one of my old
Berettas with a few rounds going over 1,000 fps.

I carry my Seecamp loaded with Winchester Silvertips.

If still available---Winchester .32acp silvertips

I agree 100% on the 32 not the best choice. Like I said its for the wife - she cannot pull the slide and revolver is too big for pocket carry. This is better than what she carries today - which is nothing.

I also agree on NOT using BB - too hot. Seems after contacting BB they in so many words cautioned against it in the TC

So am down to either Leigh defense, FMJ or Winchester silver tips

Thx

I would go with the BB hard cast. Frankly, I doubt any 32 ACP that expands will have adequate penetration.

.380acp and below- FMJ

I would go with Silvertips. If for some reason your weapon does not like them put one in the pipe and ball in the magazine, but in my experience most pistols will feed Silvertips and they have a decent rep in actual shootings as far as .32 auto can go anyway.

I was going to quote Erich, but you got the original for no extra charge. When I carry the PP, it is with ball.

Don't waste your time with light hollow point that will not reach vitals. In the 32 acp use good hot European ball with 21" Penetration to reach vitals on any angle. John Browning designed the 32acp to kill with ball ammo and 100,000's have died from it in a 100 years. Fio,ppu or geco,S-B ball ammo. Same with the 380 for defence use ball fmj only. Any failures to reach vitals and stop someone is with weak hollow point ammo

I haven't looked at any gel test results lately on the .32 ACP but as
I recall the Silvertip 60 gr HP only penetrates about 7" in gel. Way too
little. The little .32 FMJ may be small but any bullet that will always
completely penetrate an upper torso from any angle is lethal. JMB
designed the .32 ACP and stuck with it for his own use even after his
.380 was widely accepted. I think his son was the information source
but I'm not sure, but I have read that his 1910 model was his favorite
SD pistol, in .32 ACP and that the day he died there was one in his
pocket.

Yes John Browning died with a 1910 7.65mm in his pocket. The German army used the 7.65mm too over the 380 for the army in both wars.The 32 passed the helmet Penetration test and also was able to put a horse down on a head shot where the 380 would not. The Czech never had a problem with the 32acp. Placement is gueen. The 32 penetrates the sternum. Many 1000lb. Bulls went down with one shot with the fmj ball 7.65mm.

My recommendation...................at the very least get her a .380 (not a blowback/ but a lock breach like the Colt SA Mustangs)..... better yet a .38!

Speer Gold Dots. What I use in my Seecamps.

If she is more comfortable handling, shooting, and hitting what she aims at with a .32, it will be a better choice than a .380, .38, or 50 BMG pistol.

I prefer FMJ in .380 and below, especially in a shorter barrel like yours. A flat point would be a plus, IMO, provided it cycles well.

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Because of the metric system?

Almost 14" of penetration with FMJ out of a little Kel-Tec. That's all you really need:

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I posted a joking reply above....... but do check out a "locked Breach" design .......... like the old Colt Mustangs...... my Pocket lite .380 slide is way easier to rack than a blow back design.

I have a Ruger LCP - not workable for the wife. Just can't rack the slide and the missing slide lock doesn't help. She also has a hard time pulling double action - so the da/sa on the tomcat may also work in her favor.

After doing some further research on the Winchester Silvertips (having a 66% stopping rating) I purchased a box. I may also load some FMJs into the mag too.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

If you do decide on a new pistol really take a good look at the remington 380 RM it is a great pistol, very reliable and very easy to rack. I use to carry the tomcat but this is a whole lot better built pistol. She will love this gun!

The 380 is to snappy and alot don't like it. Only hits count and the 32 is the perfect balance with fast accurate follow up shots.

I use Fiocchi 60gr SJHP 32ACP ammo, not the one made with the XTP bullet.

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Based on chronograph data collected during load development over the years for various handguns, I noted the .380 ACP and .32 ACP cartridges take more of a velocity hit than the 9mm para in a short barrel, and the .32 ACP takes a bigger hit than the .380 ACP.

Compare the velocity data with penetration data in ballistic gel, I found that both the .380 ACP and .32 ACP will meet the FBI's minimum penetration and expansion standard for bare ballistic gel when you can achieve 1000 fps with the 60 gr XTP in the .32 ACP and 1000 fps with the 90 gr XTP in the .380 ACP. The XTP bullets are designed to be moderately expanding rounds that just meet the FBI minimum 1.5 X expansion rather than expanding to 1.6 or 1.65 times their original diameter. That helps penetration in marginal cartridges like the .32 ACP and .380 ACP.

In the event you can't reach 1000 fps, those bullets are still not bad choices as they will act like FMJs. That's important as even at 1000 fps, those bullets tend to plug in the heavy clothing gel tests about half the time and you need about 1100 fps before they expand reliably in that test.

In the .32 ACP however you may find that you are better served by a heavier 73 gr to 78 gr bullet as they tend to get better penetration than a lighter, unexpanded hollow point. Over penetration isn't really a problem with the .32 ACP as in the rare event of a bullet passing all the way through a torso, there usually isn't enough remaining velocity to cause a serious injury. That's due in large part to skin being fairly elastic and for the .32 ACP punching a hole in the skin to exit a body is equivalent to about 4" of ballistic gel.

If you look at the data for actual results in the field in self defense shoots, you'll find that there isn't any significant difference overall between hollow point and FMJ performance, so unless you're using a .32 ACP with a long enough barrel to achieve 1000 fps with the 60 gr XTP, it probably doesn't make any difference whether you shoot a hollow point or an FMJ.

One anomaly in field data is that the 60 gr Silvertip tends to perform better than it's limited penetration in gel would suggest, and based on that some .32 ACP shooters select it as a carry round.

Another oddity in the field data is that the .32 ACP seems to punch above its weight producing better results in the field than it should compared to larger calibers. Some of that is probably just due to the psychological effects of getting shot, where half the people who get shot, stop the attack anyway to avoid getting shot again. Some of it is probably also due to many of the people who use the .32 ACP recognizing that it is something of an expert's caliber where good bullet placement is even more vital than it is with other handgun calibers. Finally, a well made .32 ACP like the PP is a real pleasure to shoot and is capable of putting more rounds on target accurately in a given interval of time than a similar sized blow back .380 ACP or a sub compact 9mm para. For example, in the same time interval, I can usually put 5 .32 ACP rounds on target with a PP compared to 4 rounds on target with a PPK/S in .380 ACP, 3 rounds on target with a 9mm CZ 75 Compact or 2 rounds with a Kimber Ultra Carry in .45 ACP. Well handled a PP in .32 ACP or the very similar and slightly heavier FEG AP7S will lay down some impressive rates of accurate fire.

The current move toward locked breech .380 ACP pistols is changing that equation somewhat by taking much of the snap out of shooting a sub compact or micro sized locked breech .380 ACP compared to a blow back .380 ACP, giving it an equal facility for rapid, accurate fire. However the barrel still needs to be long enough to produce sufficient muzzle velocity for acceptable performance and that's hard to achieve in a 2.75" barrel.

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In summary, I've been known to carry a PP in .32 ACP from time to time in years past, and I prefer shooting the PP in .32 ACP over a PP or PPK/S in .380 ACP. But in my opinion the .32 ACP needs the 3.9" of barrel found in the PP to be effective an I would not consider carrying the .32 ACP in a pistol with a shorter barrel. Also, I've found that I can load the .380 ACP to just under 1000 fps in the .380 ACP Kimber Micro and it makes a better choice overall than the .32 ACP for a micro sized pistol.

Attached is a plot of Don Haney's (aka Golden Loki) gel penetration results for .32 ACP FMJ's. The testing was done in 10% gel with 2 layers of denim.

These results are from a Kel-Tec P32 with a 2.7" barrel and should be very similar to results from a Beretta Tomcat's 2.4" barrel.

Penetration of 13.6" to 15.3" is impressive, especially through some denim. I just wish they created a larger wound track.

Note that the Buffalo Bore, Geco RWS, and S&B all exceed Beretta's recommended maximum of 130 FPE for the Tomcat.

It will be interesting to see if the new Lehigh Xtreme Cavitator can achieve both. Underwood is also loading the Lehigh bullet and their ammo generally runs hotter than Lehigh's.

Attached Images

32 ACP FMJ Penetration.JPG (33.9 KB, 188 views)

My wife and I carry this round in our Keltec's. With this caliber I only want two things, penetration and complete reliability. IMHO the FMJ provides both. For our intended SD scenario, 7-10 feet, face/head shots this round fits the bill.

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Any ammo you select must be 100% reliable over at least 100 rounds.

Unfortunately, the shooter that's willing to buy that much premium ammo and actually shoot it is incredibly rare.

Accuracy and penetration are infinitely more important than whatever modest expansion is actually available from 32 cal velocities.

Every now and again I'll carry my Colt 1903 in 32, always with ball ammo. It's the only ammo that always works. (I have a collection of partial boxes of 32 expanding ammo: none came close to my reliability requirements. Some failed within 12 rounds. )

Ball has the extra benefit of being relatively inexpensive so I can shoot it a lot, improving the likelihood I'd hit the bg where I want with speed.

Use ball ammo. Save your money.

Yes good hot European ball for defence in the 32acp ad 380. HP is a waste and may get you killed by not reaching the vitals.

Aside from the standard 71 grain FMJ loads (which I use), The .32 ACP Winchester Silvertips appear to have a good performance reputation in human tissue. I have reloaded .32 ACP using 100 grain bullets, seem to work fine for me. I have never shot any living creature with a .32 ACP however.

I have a Tomcat in Inox. It's not something I carry but it is in the house for my wife since she does not like shooting my Ruger LCP. The Tomcat is loaded with Speer Gold Dot 60 grain HP's. It's worked flawlessly with these rounds.

Another vote for ball/FMJ.

As for the viability of .32ACP for defense, the experts agree that "it hits like a brick through plate glass..."

: )

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Ball... ball... ball.

Won't take hot 32 ammo Its in the manual

The document included with new Tomcat 3032 pistols warns that the owner should never use +P (high-pressure) ammunition that exceeds 130 ft·lbf (176 J) muzzle energy.[

My recommendation is to "get a different gun." The Tomcat is a pistol that is about as large as some of the small 9mm pistols, such as the Ruger LC9sPro, the S&W Shield 9, and the Glock 43.

That said, if you are going to use the .32 ACP, I recommend you buy the defense ammo recommended over at the Seecamp pistol website. Use what they say works in their .32, and it should work in your pistol. I say that because the little Seecamp is ammo picky. If it works in the Seecamp, it will work in anything else. Don't expect increases in performance with the hollow points at that velocity, however.

Lots of good answers here, and they are all over the spectrum. I agree with avoiding the exotic rounds unless you are well-heeled enough to shoot it regularly in practice to ensure it functions. Even then I am not convinced of any superiority over standard FMJ or JHP choices... the claimed advantage is a combination of speculation and nonsense, at a premium price. Better you should practice more frequently with reasonably-priced ammunition of known capability. You are not turning a .32 Auto into anything more capable regardless of ammo selection.

I've packed a P32 as a secondary or occasionally a primary pistol, since it was introduced about 25 years ago. It doesn't take more than an hour of research on the internet to learn that the .32 Auto is adequate for certain self-defense situations within it's range. If you are low-risk person it's fine as a primary especially if the alternative is leaving a larger or heavier gun home, or not having a more expensive gun at all.

The warm/hot months of the year I carry it with 60 grain XTP JHP, usually Fiocchi brand. This round penetrates 10-12" and expands, which is fine for perps wearing t-shirts, do-rags and baggy shorts. Keep in mind this is a close-in defense pistol... it has neither the accuracy nor the energy to be shooting through barriers etc and the shots will be frontal torso or head. Even on other angle torso shots, it will get where it needs to be. This ammo is priced well and you can shoot a meaningful amount without going broke.

The other cold and frozen months I use FMJ: 73 grain Fiocchi or 71 grain Federal FMJ. I also handload a 76 grain cast FP using the same Rimrock bullet as Buffalo Bore uses, but loaded to a sane non +P level of 860 fps. Most FMJ rounds get 780-880 fps in the short barrel .32s. Winter clothing is heavier and FMJ and cast FP will get adequate penetration. I'm not really concerned about the ubiquitous yet ridiculous "4-layers of denim"... no one wears that. A leather jacket or peacoat is more the norm and the above rounds will do just fine.

If you had to pick just one, go by your climate. FMJ is never a poor choice in .32 Auto. I'd buy a few brands and use the one that shoots closest to POA in your pistol. As the chart posted earlier shows, small differences in muzzle energy are meaningless in this round.

Have her try out the Remington RM380. It's very light weight and compact. It's the easiest gun I have ever racked. Let her handle it in a gun store. It's very reliable and cheap also.

My recommendation is a New York reload in a .380 or 9mm. Use it first.

Keep the Tom Cat if that's what she is comfortable with. Let her practice with all the standard velocity ball you want to pay for along with a limited amount of the S&B or similar +p ball. Carry the +p . My Cobra was not ( that I know of ) rated for +P and I have been told many times I will crack the frame on it if I use it . In all the years I have shot and carried +P in it this has not happened. It has not shot loose either. I do not shoot +P 100 % of the time in it but I do always carry +P or the Discontinued Winchester 125 Gr lead HP +P+ .

She needs to carry whatever she is comfortable with and can hit where she aims with. Bottom line is NOBODY wants to get shot and as already pointed out above 99.99 % of attackers quit the fight when they get hit.

Eddie

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