Picked this up at Bass Pro this weekend. First time I have seen it. Is this one of the favorite FBI, NYPD or Gov't loads?

Cory

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Cory
SWCA #3015 SWHF #465

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Cory
SWCA #3015 SWHF #465

Yes, it's a lead semi wadcutter hollow point.

Thanks, I felt pretty certain it was.

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Cory
SWCA #3015 SWHF #465

I think the original FBI load was Winchester's 158-Gr. LSWCHP .38 Spl.
Soon followed by Remington and Federal. Remington's lead is a little
bit softer. Many others produce a similar load. Buffalo Bore out-performs
them all.

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In Omnia Paratus

There is at least one thread here that shows the current + P 158 gr lead SWCHP loading is not quite as warm as previously made by the major factories. A search should find it/them. Likely still a good effective self-defense load.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

The round is a decent substitute for the so-called "FBI Load." As was pointed out in a previous post, the Buffalo Bore version is better, but that will do just fine.

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I believe in the wadcutter.

What I always like to consider about the so-called "FBI Load/Chicago Load" is that it was developed for use in full size .38 Special revolvers with 4" barrels. Of course people were going to use it to in snubbies, why not? Was it going to as effective? Probably not, in fact, of course not. (But, it worked well enough in most cases.) But expectations are what they are. Fast forward 40 years and we still have the same dilemma. .38 Special snubbies are more popular than ever and outnumber full size .38 Special revolvers considerably for concealed carry and for self-defense in general.

Today though there are better ammunition choices for the .38 Special snubbie other than the "FBI Load/Chicago Load." However, the Buffalo Bore version is strong medicine.

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I believe in the wadcutter.

The "Old load" made stops with just one shot...............

todays load might need two shots to do the job?
Just a heads up.

Yes, FBI Load...

Yes! I keep these for SHTF. Hottest load I ever shot was a Buffalo Bore 125gr .357. Everyone on the range (indoor) hated me for a bit. ha

The Rem. 158grn LHP is my carry load for my M36....haven't found anything more accurate and it has a good track record.
Keep thinking I'll switch to something more "modern" but I'm kinda hard headed...

It's the load I carry in my 642.It has expanded in everything I have ever shot with it.

Please don't be confused - the ORIGINAL FBI load from years back was a very descent round - but TODAY'S version is quite watered down (about 100fps less than specified in their spec. charts). Out of a 2" snubby the velocity is in the mid 740 - 760 fps range! That's pretty piss poor for a so called +P!!

The same configuration Buffalo Bore +P out of the same 2" Chief's Spl. will do a CONSISTENT 1025 - 1040 fps (my actual Chrono results). The Speer 135 grain short barrel Gold Dot +P does 835 - 845 from the 2" bbl. They should call the Remington & Winchester FBI loads -P's because of their dismal performance now-days!

By the way...... anyone who doesn't believe this should get a Chronograpgh and see for themselves!

The 158 gr LCWCHP "FBI Load" was introduced in 1972 and slightly predated the SAAMI spec for the .38 +P. My understanding is that this original load operated slightly above the +P limit. The end result is that commercial "FBI load" ammo was loaded a little lighter from the mod 1970s onward, as were/are the subsequent Winchester X38SPD, Federal 38G and Remington R38S12 loads.

The original FBI load was reported to produce about 1,000 fps in a 4" Model 10 but was also reported to lose about 100 fps in a 3" barrel. You'd need actual 1972 FBI 158 gr LSWC +P ammo to test this claim.

The current Remington FBI load produces the following velocities:
1 7/8" bbl: 800 ft/sec
2 1/2" bbl: 860 ft/sec
3" bbl: 890ft/sec
4" bbl: 900 ft/sec

Assuming the 1000 fps claim for the original FBI load is correct, it more or less means that in a short barrel there isn't as much difference as you'd think and that the major velocity loss is in the 4" barrel. Given that the FBI issued 3" Model 13s from 1980 to 1991, it also means any velocity loss from the "original" FBI load to the later Winchester X38SPD, Federal 38G and Remington R38S12 loads didn't make a difference to the FBI either.

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One long cited load, and accompanying velocities, to replicate the old Federal and Winchester +P loads is 5.4 gr of Unique:

Disclaimer - this is in excess of what you find in most loading manuals by about .6 gr. The exception is the Hornady 2nd edition, which also predated the SAAMI .38 +p standard.

2-inch: 847 fps
4-inch: 935 fps
5-inch: 952 fps
6-inch: 1021 fps
8 3/8-inch: 1007 fps

Personally, I load for the 900 fps target velocity and use 5.6 gr of Unique to achieve it. It's not clear whether this reflects a change in Unique over time, lot to lot variation, or just the vagaries of my personal 3" revolvers and their particular bores, forcing cones, cylinder gaps and chambers.

The disclaimer here is that while this loads is still under the max in the Hornady 2nd edition, it is well over the max in any later editions. Consequently, I use it in .38 brass, but only fire it in .357 Magnum revolvers.

This load gives me a solid 900 fps in a 3" barrel with a low SD in velocity, and is very consistent with the performance I see in a 3" barrel with the current Remington 158 gr LSWCHP +P load.

Still have a box or 2 of that original yellow box "pre +P" ammo, both in the FBI LHP load (38SPD) and the SWC sister load (38WCP). In a 4" service gun, you know you're firing something, to say the least. My snubs use the "newer" versions from the 1980s. These do not have a cannelure and I am unsure as to their MV, but I have put my trust in the LHP for decades and see no reason to stop.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Most manufacturers, of the so called FBI load as referred to above, list the muzzle velocity as tested from a 4" barrel. Accordingly, Winchester is 808 FPS, Federal is 834 FPS, and Remington is 871 FPS. For comparison, Buffalo Bore lists their MV at 1,000 FPS. I believe I read somewhere that Tim Sundles (owner of Buffalo Bore) said that test was with with a 2" barrel, if I am remembering right.
PS that BB part number is 20A. .38Spl. +P 158-Gr. L.S.W.H.C. -G. C. They say muzzle energy is 351 ft. lbs. Impressive!

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In Omnia Paratus

These recent manufacture "FBI loads" should be fine for self-defense purposes, particularly if you never have to shoot anybody with them.

Even if it is watered down as chief38 suggests, I'd rather carry something with a sharp shoulder that should produce a through and through would. I doubt one of the modern 125gr super bonded JHP's watered down in a 1 7/8 barrel would do the same damage in flesh, but it's all supposition on my part.

It's like hunting. It matters less with what you hit them with than it does with where you hit them.

BB57, great info thanks. I too used the old Lyman 44 5.4 grs Unique only as my 357 Mag in the past (I'm not recommending it or suggesting its use implied or otherwise ( darn lawyer hat!)). Backed down to 5.2 grs, but prefer 4.7 grs 231 for a duplication load of today's factory loads. Your 5.6 grs Unique in 357 is more along the lines of the 38 Spl hi-speed/38-44 loads imho.