What 38 special load do you carry?
I carry a snubby in my rotation.
I have several newer loads (Remington Golden Saber +P 125gr & Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr)
But I keep going back to the old (1980's stock) Federal High Shock 125 grain +P JHP (NO 38E) &
1980's stock S&W 158 gr +P Jacketed hollow point.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of opinions. My opinion is to go with the industry standard: 158 grain LSWC +P or LSWCHP +P.

It's what I use, even in .357 Mag revolvers.

Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P is made for short barreled revolvers.

All 4 of the ones you mentioned will do the job. If you have to shoot
someone I doubt they will know the difference.
Several years ago I gathered up about 16 different "personal defense loads".
The ones in the little boxes of 20 or 25. All of the majors and a few not so major.
I put them through my own test. (Too complicated to explain here.)
Using snub nosed .38 Spl. (S&W 642).
The conclusion I reached was that it doesn't make a lot of difference.
Any of them will do the job if I do my job.
I carry Golden Sabers in my guns that will tolerate +P and the
standard pressure Hornady Critical Defense in the guns that won't.

__________________
In Omnia Paratus

I concur, it's the best and most accurate in my 2" and 3" revolvers. I also use the .357 magnum version of same.

Whatever shoots to the sights, is readily available (or I can buy quantity at one time) and is of modern design. For me it's the 135gr+P Gold Dot. They are $30/50 at the local gunshows and sometimes better online. Hornady CD shoots low and the LSWCHP +P stuff is insultingly expensive for late 70's bullet technology. The Winchester 130gr +P is sometimes available in boxes of 50 for a good price too.
What crazyphil says about doesn't really matter if it goes in the right place is spot on. If it doesn't go in the right place, a little extra expansion or penetration probably isn't going to matter.

Call me old school, but, I still carry 158 gr. LSWCHP+p (FBI Load). I carry it in my 357 snub also.

Buffalo Bore .38 spl 158 grain non +P SWC GC hollow point.

I am carrying either Remington UMC or HTP 125 sjhp's. They shoot very well in my snubbies. I like the UMC just a tad better for some reason. Velocity from the UMC 125 from my gun averaged 885 and the HTP was 873. A 50 round boxe for $18.00 dollars or so, is awesome. No issues with the ammo at all. I also like remington golden sabre's too.

Mostly I carry Hornady Critical Defense but sometimes I switch to Remington or Winchester ammo, as long as it's HP ammunition, and not +P. I don't much see the need for +P in my snubby 38s (K frames). I certainly don't use it in J frames.

Ideally 158 +P LHP or Gold Dot 135.

Since .my stash of W-W 158 is running low and getting long in tooth , I picked up a cpl of interm "modern" loads, specifically PDX-1 . Why PDX? WalMart had a bunch in stock, and the prices weren't outrageous, not that it would have been markedly different from a half dozen other brand name 125gr -ish jhp , all designed around the same testing protocols.

I prefer hard cast 158 gr swc handloaded to amout 830 fps out of my M38.

Just 6 plain ole ordinary 148gr HBWC over 2.8gr of BE

No need to fall into the ammo makers hype of specially made self defense ammo.

__________________
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Hornady low recoil pink tip .38 Special. My wife can handle the load in any of the J-frames in the family.
Geoff
Who figures interchangeability helps.

When I had to use my weapon in the line of duty it was loaded with the old FBI, +P 158 grain hollow point. It worked and I'm around to enjoy my retirement and grandkids so I can't think of a better recommendation than that. The other one is the Speer 135 grain +P, has a good track record on the street according to NYPD stats.

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I hand load Speer gdsb 135gr +p to about 950-1000 FPS depending upon temperature.

All rounds fired after your 1st shot leaves the barrel can be just as important as that 1st round.

Getting those follow up rounds on target is essential to your survival.

Heavy loads could lose valuable time you need to complete the job and your taking the 1st place trophy.

Unlike what is often portrayed on the large and small screen people that are shot usually don't go right down like a sack of potatoes.

IMO you don't need magnum,+P ,hollow points or other super dooper ammo someone wants to sell you,you need good training,instincts,keeping your composure and most of all....marksmanship.

__________________
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I carry full wadcutters in the gun...and a speed strip with lead round nose (easier to reload in a hurry).

The FBI load: 158 grain LSWC +P or LSWCHP +P.

Buffalo Bore #20E. 125gr Low Velocity JHP in my S7W 60-4.
Standard pressure, short barrel, low flash, heavy 38slp, non+p.

__________________
USN Submarine Service '66-'71

If,if.....!! the snubby is Model 36 or Model 60 use Standard non +P ammo 158gr lead and practice a lot!!!
If it is Model 10 or Model 15 (K frame) you can choose the old Remington 125gr JHP +P!!!! it is great for self defense you may choose another similar125gr JHP for the snubbie
Best Regards
Roberto

__________________
"Off we go..."

same here, in my 642...

"Buffalo Bore .38 spl 158 grain non +P SWC GC hollow point."

Same here. Soft recoil, groups 2" at 15 yards and P.O.I. is right at the tip of my front sight. Good stuff.

I'll second that

Buffalo Bore .38 spl 148 grain WCs.

There are some statements I agree with in this thread.

To paraphrase and add some commentary:

1. Training is more important than the round you're using.

That is particularly the case with a snub nose .38 Special as they are more difficult than most handguns to shoot accurately. It's also a very marginal caliber when a 2" barrel is being used, so bullet placement matters to an even greater degree.

2. The 135 gr Gold Dots have a great reputation.

The problem with some of the older technology jacketed hollow points in a snub nose .38 is that they are not as likely to expand at 2" .38 Special velocities, and if they do expand penetration can be limited.

I'm also a fan of the 125 gr XTP in a snub nose. The XTP bullets are designed for moderate expansion (1.5x versus 1.6x or 1.65x) and they expand comparatively slowly, ensuring adequate penetration at .38 +P velocities, even in a 2" barrel.

3. I agree that you don't need a magnum load in a .38 - but....

On the other hand, the terminal performance of a standard pressure .38 Special in a 2" barrel is not in the same class as the standard pressure .38 in a 4" barrel. You need a +P load to gain back the lost velocity and ensure a minimally adequate level of performance is achieved.

Yes, it will recoil a bit more - but that just requires more training and more practice to master. Unless all you're looking for is a psychological weapon, a snub nose .38 is not a great choice for an individual who never plans to practice with it.

4. I agree the old 158 gr LSWCHP +P load is a decent load in a short barrel .38 - but...

The load is very dependent on the alloy used. It needs to be hard enough to avoid leading at +P pressure and velocity, yet it needs to be soft enough to expand at 1 7/8"-2.125" velocities.

It's a very fine balance and not all commercial "FBI" loads achieve that balance effectively - many commercial 158r LSWCHP +P loads use an alloy that is too hard to expand reliably when shot from a 1 7/8" barrel, particularly from an older revolver with a larger cylinder gap.

5. There's no free lunch and shortest isn't always best when it comes to a "snub nose".

There's a reason the FBI stayed with 4" .38 Special revolvers for so long, and there's a reason they didn't go shorter than 3" on the Model 13 it issued to agents from 1980-1991.

I find 3" to be ideal, whether it's a Model 13, a Model 36, a Model 60, or an SP101. A 3" revolver is no harder to conceal or less comfortable to carry than a 1 7/8" or 2.125" revolver of the same model. The 3" barrel will however give you another 50 fps over a 1 7/8" to 2 1/8" barrel with a standard pressure load, and it will give you 80-100 fps more velocity with a .38 +P load.

Don't rely on a 38 that much but when I do it's loaded with my own ammo. I know there are lots of cautions about non-factory ammo for self defense and I do not lightly dismiss such warnings. If I lived in a place that was even mildly anti-gun I would follow that advice. But around here I seriously doubt the ammo would be an issue in an otherwise legal shooting.

Anyone who knows me understands that I consider mainstream +P 38 Special ammo to be a mild target load. There may be some powerful loads from specialty makers but I am unfamiliar with them.

My load is a 125 JHP (Remington or Winchester as they come in bulk) over enough Unique to clock 1,200 FPS from a 2" barrel (1250 from a 4" M10). This load has never given me any trouble in my steel frame J frame. Factory +P with the same bullet goes around 875 from my gun so my load is a huge improvement. I think mine it's fast enough to actually open up that JHP bullet.

__________________
No life story has happy end.

Since the J-frame .38 today is most often an aluminum frame lightweight, I think many do not realize how strong those steel-frame Js really are. Tough little chickenpluckers, they handled the old .38-44 loads then offered by the factories. Go SP!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

I prefer the old FBI load also. A couple years ago I picked up two 50 round boxes of Federal +P 158 gr LSWCHP-Nyclad, that shoot POA in my 642. I know they probably won't expand but if I hit what I aim at it really shouldn't matter. My other favorite load is a handloaded Cast 158 SWC with 4.6 gr, of Unique.

__________________
Support your Police, & NRA

I carry lead ball ammo. It's suitable for almost anything.



-----------------

Like many others I carry either the FBI Load or the Speer 135gr GDHP SB load. They just plain work!

Carry the most accurate load you can find since most ammo on the market today has a bullet that will perform well. Even a magic bullet is no good unless you get hits.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

lets keep this going

Give me a couple days, I'll go through all my old gun mags for articles on this subject ang get right back here. Meantime, get a power drink and start watching YouTube gel tests. We'll compare notes.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I look forward to that!!!

I carried a 2" mod 36 for many years to backup my BHP in 9mm. My choice load was the old Super Police 200 gr. It was low vel but a backup gun is basically for very close range and that load had good penetration and was VERY effective. Repeat shots were also very easy. Now in retirement I carry a 649-2 and use the standard 158 grainers, since I can no longer find the old 200's. I have never felt under-gunned with the old standards,( non plus P), since this type of gun is usually used in a 10-20 foot range. I feel the main ingredients needed here are practice, accuracy and the will to pull the trigger.

The first critical variable is that the ammo, like the firearm, has to work all the time. It has to go "bang" when it is supposed to, and launch the projectile within the designed velocity range, with adequate precision.

That issue out of the way, you have to be able to shoot it well. Accuracy in putting the rounds into the proper target areas on a malefactor is not negotiable, and the vital areas are not properly laid out on a lot of targets.

Then, there is adequate penetration. The FBI standard allows for some circumstances that are less likely, but that could exist. For myself, the most important of the test results is the 4 layer denim, as it best simulates various soft obstructions like clothing and is about the hardest to pass.

In revolvers that are not in a pistol caliber, I have gone full reactionary and carry a solid SWC. (In the 9mm/45 revolvers, I use standard service ammo, mostly gold dot). I just did my LEOSA qual with both pistol and revolver, and in my M66 I used what I would likely carry - a standard velocity/pressure .38 SWC. Easy to shoot, accurate as I am, and proven.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

Seems I'm in agreement with the majority. I like the Buffalo Bore 158 +p LSWHP GC. I also like the Speer Gold Dot 135 +p SB. Both work very well in the .357/.38 and plain old .38 guns.

__________________
Dave Frost

I carry a 442 Airweight often and like Rem GS 125-gr +P like the OP. I also carry Rem GS in my other two ccw pistols (Glock 19 and Glock 26).

After years of carrying the older Remington version of the FBI load, in a steel J-frame, I now carry the Buffalo Bore standard pressure 158gr. LSWCHP-GC, which clocks virtually identically to the +P FBI load. I've also, long ago, used Remington 125gr. Golden Saber. Switched to the FBI load because of its long-proven effectiveness.

I keep thinking I'll try the Speer Short Barrel stuff, but just haven't gotten around to it.

I don't mind the few extra ounces a steel J weighs. Makes recovery faster and shooting more comfortable.

__________________
Oh well, what the hell.

I have been shooting some of the Buffalo Bore stuff lately and just like it more every time I pull the trigger. Hard to believe the velocity that this round is giving for as soft as the recoil is.

As I said above, very accurate. Below is a cylinder full off hand at 12 yards and beside it a recovered bullet. This bullet passed through three water filled gallon milk jugs and was collected in the fourth. Starting diameter.. .357 Ending diameter... .693. That monster hollow point cavity really opens up.

I just ordered four more boxes from Midway. My only dig is that I wish it was loaded in a nickel plated case. For every day carry brass cases get nasty pretty quick.

Attached Images

	BB group.jpg (87.8 KB, 172 views)
	BB expanded.jpg (143.9 KB, 222 views)

Impressive expansion!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hornady Critical Defense Duty...standard pressure non +P

.38 special 148gr DEWC @ 800 fps

__________________
There's nowt so queer as folk

huge expansion.....

$40 per 100 @ Walmart.


I also use it in 9, 40, and 45 as well because those USED to be the same price as range ammo. In the past 6 months, the prices have done up substantially but my stock is high and deep.

__________________
Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

yikes,, those FAILED the FBI test.

There has to be more people who carry 38 special for self defense than this.

Anyone who places more faith and trust in magic ammunition rather than his own marksmanship skill is likely to end up face down in some alley.

Than we should all use FMJ and be done with it.