I really want to run 357 magnum 125gr out of a 2"-4" barrel for protection. However one issue is holding me back, permanent hearing damage. Does anyone here run it and if so how do you approach that issue? My fear is being in the car and having to use it or inside a small building.

IMO
If you are ever in a situation that warrants discharging your weapon in a car or building in SD,
hearing loss is not really the issue.

Not exactly the same but I had to fire two shots from a 357sig in self defense, it was in the living room (about 12x12) of a cinder block house. I had ringing in my ears for several hours after and a headache for a day or so but no noticeable hearing loss

Most people who carry a gun for SD never have to use it. I would not allow the fear of having to use any gun without hearing protection effect what you carry. Personally I load my .357 Magnum that is in the bedroom with .38 Special ammo because of the flash-bang effect in a small room but also for over penetration concerns. You always have the option to carry .38 Special ammo.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Hearing loss is cumulative, and any pistol is too loud to shoot without hearing protection without risk of damage.
For most people, its all the practice without adequate hearing protection, not the few emergency shots, that does most of the damage.

__________________
Science plus Art

Many older peace officers have hearing loss from years of shooting without hearing protection. Back then no one knew the damage it could cause. Having to shoot a few times, in an enclosed area, may or may not cause permanent damage, but even if it does it is better than losing your life. If it concerns you greatly, ask an ENT physician for an answer.

I practice in an abandoned house. On a few occasions I have pulled a gun and fired just as I realized I forgot ear protection.

It hurt for a moment and I went and put ear protection on and continued..

What's that you said.. JK..

As noted above, exposure to loud noise will cause measurable hearing loss - you may not have consistent ringing or notice immediate or sustained hearing loss but it will show up on a hearing test. This will happen with a .22, a .500 or anything in between but louder rounds will be worse.

If you are concerned about close-range effects in an enclosed space, perhaps starting out with .38 + P and adequate hearing protection would be a good start. Just about any indoor range I've visited would be a decent simulator . Any flash and noise will be worse if you have to use it seriously.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

You will suffer hearing loss from the discharge of any pistol in an enclosed space, even .22 LR. The only legitimate reason for that discharge is to save a life. Count your blessings if you succeed at that. The escaping gas will be supersonic, even if the projectile is not. It's that sudden expansion that produces the noise.

Practice is another matter, and you should always wear hearing protection. In-ear conformable plugs are probably the best, followed by over the ear muffs. Some people use both. Safety glasses cause ear muffs to leak a lot of sound, and ear plugs would mitigate that effect.

You guys talk about any firearm, well that's simply not true. I have fired a 9mm in a house and didn't even have ringing ears. A 357 magnum is several times doubled the noise of a 9mm or 40s&w.

38 Special to me (to me as in IMO) makes carrying a revolver pointless over a semi auto.

I did a quick search and found some sound info. It seems the .357 Magnum is nowhere near "several times doubled" the sound produced by the 9mm or 40 S&W.

9mms = 160 db
45 ACP = 157 db
.357 Mag = 164 db

How loud is your gun

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

If you have repeatedly fired a 9 mm indoors without apparent hearing loss, please consult your local audiologist...they may differ. Good luck in your decision.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Decibels converts a logarithmic scale to a linier scale
Every 3 db increase is double
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel

(I'm sure an engineer will be along shortly to explain it much better)

Carry what you need and stop worrying about it. I have shot a 357 mag from a Ruger Security Six indoors, in my bedroom with the door closed. It was an accidental discharge. It did ring my ears for about an hour or two but I got over it. What surprised me even more was that the bullet went straight through the hardwood floor (bedroom was on the 2nd floor) and lodged deep into the hardwood flooring on the 1st floor. I couldn't even get it out.

All calibers will have noise and without hearing protection everything is amplified. A few years ago I bought a few boxes of that CCI Quiet 22lr and was told that I wouldn't need hearing protection. Took my single action revolver into the woods and shot it alongside regular 22lr. Both sounded the same to me and I came to the conclusion that the "Quiet" rounds were just a marketing gimmick.

__________________
Ephesians 6 (Armor of God)

Having tinnitus myself(which I think is more age related than shooting related(though I wasn't that smart with protecting my ears from various noises,including some gun fire, many years ago....Sooner or later,everything catches up with you) you may want to take whatever grief might be coming your way,rather than have the tinnitus.

I think that the dif is more noticeable out of a rifle.

Also note that hearing loss from loud noises is cumulative. That means that every shot causes a little damage EVERY time. The fact that you did not experience pain or ringing in the ears has nothing to do with it. You will notice it, along with your audiologist, in time.

Chain saws, guns, motorcycles, power saws, and rock 'n' roll for a lifetime and I am pretty sure I am headed for electronic aids in the not too distant future. I even have to wear muffs to run the vacuum cleaner now or suffer ringing, dizziness, and general disorientation. Well, the disorientation could be from any number of causes

Protect yourself and double up. You won't be sorry.

__________________
Some collect art; I shoot it!

Hearing sensitivity varies from person to person, hearing loss is gradual as has been mentioned, and if/when you get hit with (possibly lifelong) tinnitus as the result of a loud noise is pretty much unpredictable.

In a self-defense shooting, I'd worry more about getting killed than my hearing. That said, you need to evaluate where you spend most of your time. I don't consider the .357 a particularly suitable round if you are most likely to have to use it in confined spaces, rooms, cars, around lots of people. Quite apart from damage to your hearing, unnecessary levels of noise, muzzle blast, recoil, overpenetration, can be a liability in confined spaces.

Actually I'm getting different answers all over.

One says 3db is twice as loud. Another source says 5db is noticeably louder and that same one said 10db is twice as loud.

I read 159db for 9mm
165db for 357 magnum
165db for 12 ga

A known youtube gunner reported ruptured eardrum from a 357 magnum shot.

Hearing loss/saving your life argument doesn't make sense to me as there are clearly more quiet loads out there that can stop a perp.

I simply WANT to carry the 357 magnum

In that case you're just going to have to take your chances. It could depend on completely unpredictable and uncontrollable factors, like how is your head turned or is the muzzle jammed into the perp's clothing. Neither science nor any know-it-all here will be able to give you any guaranteed answer.

I understand and honestly my hearing isn't my concern more so than my children if they were with me in said situation.

Having had tinnitus since I was about 10, (kept me out of the military)I can tell you that hearing loss is a cumulative thing. Early in my LEO time, we didn't consider ear protection a serious issue. Wrong! Later in my career I carried earplugs in my shirt pocket (the old sonic valves). I knew it wasn't going to help in a emergency but in a situation where I had a little time (putting down deer or cows after a TA) they would be a good thing. And they were helpful.

At this stage of my life, I do not shoot without protection. About the only thing I will occasionally shoot is a 22 rifle, in the field, and while it isn't terrible, I still feel the affect. Shooting anything else makes me physically ill. So I don't make a habit of it.

In my home, I have several guns placed about the house for HD. (45ACP, 40S&W, 38Spc. and 20 gauge shotgun) If I need to use them, a little more hearing loss will be a small price to pay and the least of my worries.

Seems to me if risk of hearing loss is more important than risk of life loss, better carry a crossbow. All non-suppressed, gunpowder firing guns make too much noise to fire without hearing protection, especially indoors, especially pistols. As a once young teenage fool, I tried firing a .22 LR revolver at a target in my parents' basement. My homemade bullet trap worked just fine, but after the first shot with no ear protection, I really didn't care to repeat the test.

I shot a KelTec 9mm outside and being a new shooter I didn't have hearing protection on. I just hadn't thought about it. Anyway after three shots I put the gun up for the day. My hearing sounded like I was listening through a sea shell for about a week.
Another time, I will not mention why, I shot a S&W 59 9mm without hearing protection in the house. I was totally surprised the sound was nothing like when I shot outside. Evidently the furniture and other inside acoustics deadened the sound a great deal. I had no after effects on my hearing. Because of this I don't buy into the belief shooting a gun inside a house is worse than shooting one outside. IMO there was no comparison.
I agree most all handguns have an extremely loud sound and I don't even shoot 22lf without hearing protection now. I don't even want to experience shooting my LCR loaded with 357 without hearing protection.

I shot without hearing protection as a kid in the 1950s-60s. No one told me about the dangers. Shooting included a .357 Ruger Blackhawk, innumerable .22 LR, 20 gage shotguns etc. As others have noted, the damage may not be immediately apparent and is cumulative. I recently spent $11,000 for state of the art hearing aids to restore some hearing ability. That would have purchased a lot of firearms and ammunition. Today I wear both custom in-ear plugs and electronic muffs when I teach handgun classes or shoot for practice.

I keep electronic muffs next to my bed with my night stand gun. I carry a .38 airweight with standard ammunition. I would without hesitation shoot in a self defense situation.

Firing a gun in an "urgent" situation is likely going to preclude using hearing protection and is simply a risk that is accepted by most who go armed, including law enforcement. Choosing a caliber based on potential hearing damage is a "slippery slope" and the best information I have read is that some hearing damage will occur each and every time your ears are subjected to a damaging sound level, which includes almost all self-defense suitable firearm choices. The further of the decibel scale we go, the more likely we suffer damage more quickly. Even a single full power .357 in a confined space will probably have some lasting effect

Related to that is of course the issue that the louder and brighter the blast and flash, the more your immediate ability to respond to an ongoing threat is diminished. You may not "remember" hearing or seeing a shot you fired in an urgent situation, but your vision and hearing disruptions are still real. That alone can be reasonable justification for choosing a caliber and ammo that reduce the sound and flash as much as possible while still remaining within your acceptable power level.

There are ammo choices in most calibers including .357 that offer some reduced blast and flash. For most of us it comes down to wearing hearing protection (or shooting a suppressed gun) in practice, and accepting the likely hearing damage when shooting out of necessity. Nonetheless, assuming I have a choice in the ammo I carry, I try to carry ammo that offers the least damage to my hearing and night vision when I can.

If you shoot without hearing protection because you think it isn't hurting you, you might want to check with some medical/audiology people to confirm your beliefs.

A suppressed MP5 firing 147 gr ammo is an ideal choice for hearing-safe defensive use. Unfortunately, they are not readily accessible to most people and a little difficult to carry concealed.

What? What's that?

Exactly my experience

Everyone who shoots a lot eventually gets some hearing damage. From any caliber, especially on ranges when other folks are shooting, rifles, magnums, shotguns, whatever. Even with the best hearing protection it happens.

But NOBODY worries about it when it comes to a gunfight. You'll be very unlikely to have hearing protection on during a gunfight, and that will be the least of your worries.

Sidebar:

I have always presumed they were supposed to be quieter when shot through a suppressor than standard .22s. Absent a suppressor I am not at all surprised that they are equally loud.

Not counting military shooting, the loudest thing I ever heard without ear protection was 9 rounds out of a 2" barreled H&R Model 929 .22LR caliber that I fired in a clearing while I was deer hunting. The sound was enormous - I think the trees reflected it all back upon me.

All ammunition is loud as far as I am concerned.

I agree with most responses in this thread. Don't listen to those who say that shooting of certain calibers won't damage your hearing. They all can do so. I have a friend who has suffered hearing impairment half his life after shooting one box of 38 Special outdoors back in the early '80s.

For home defense keep a set of electronic muffs close to your handgun. If there's time...put them on. They might even help you hear what's going on. If there's no time then don't put them on.

Ask member BARgunner about what a 357 inside a closed 65 GMC sounds like.
Ask him about what size hole a 158 swc does from the inside of the windshield.
What? What did you say?

I spent most of my 20+ year career in tanks and other large weapons systems and somehow I still hear most things'. Of course I do have damage and I still double-up when I can with handguns but that's about all you can do. Now days' the last thing I worry about is those infrequent times where I'm caught without ear protection e.g. some jerk fires off when the range was supposed to be cold.

__________________
Dan Ortego ~

Apparently soldiers have it absolutely the worst in the job of close
quarters combat when shooting short barrel M4 rifles and when they
engage in firefights with the enemy and are surrounded by other soldiers
shooting many rounds of ammo.

It is my opinion scientifically that the shorter the barrel and the higher
the max chamber pressure the greater will be the sound. That would
lead me to believe that the 45 ACP or the 38 special might be the quietest
and while the 45 ACP is lower pressure it has a larger bore and the
amount of "blast" behind the bullet might be larger in quantity if not higher
in pressure. I've heard that the guys who shoot the KELTEC PLR .223
pistol are absolutely pounded with every shot by a sound shock wave.
I have a favorite pistol which is 10mm and I fear it is the same hi pressure
as a 357 mag but with the added volume of a larger bore.

Then again there are hi power rifles and shotguns that could be shot indoors
and I wonder how they compare with 357 mag pistols as far as the damaging
loudness.

Rationally it might seem that the 45 ACP with large slow bullet from
a lower pressure loading could seem to be the least ear damaging
indoor effective shooting weapon.

I really think it is too bad that with all our lax gun laws in the USA
that suppressors are so much more difficult to get and use on rifles and
pistols that could protect our hearing. There are some other foreign
countries where it is common for most of the shooting that takes place
occurs with suppressors.... especially hunting etc.

I just had a funny thought.... What if in all the new self defense gun classes
we abandoned the two hand pistol shooting technique so that the free hand could
be used to plug one of your ears with the index finger while shooting.

I have had tinnitus all my live. As a small child I was always asking my parents why they couldn’t hear what I hear. Now after 70 plus years of being around a lot of noise, lots of guns, I’m not hearing what everyone else hears. Hearing aids help, but even with the new technology I can’t hear music like everyone else. However, I am still suffering hearing loss as I age. I too have discharged a gun in a small room in a house. If you could see my chart from my hearing Dr. you could see I did suffer hearing loss from it. Protect your hearing as best you can all the time. Owning a gun is nothing. Practicing with a gun is nothing. Being willing to use it if you have to is the important part. No one knows if they are willing until after it happens. I will not stop carrying because of fear of hearing loss. I see a lot of posts about guns printing in pockets. Would using hearing protection on the street indicate someone is carrying? OK, I heard that.

Lax gun laws?????

Yes absolutely. Relative to the rest of the world.
Try and name other advanced or developed countries
that allow virtual unlimited ownership ( in terms of quantity and model)
of any kind of pistol or rifle.... like we enjoy here in the USA minus
a couple of states or cities etc.
So long as I am not a criminal there is nothing preventing me from
owning any kind of firearm save finances.

Lax implies they are more lenient or not as strict as they should be

I have found the best way to avoid hearing damage with .357 rounds is to put them in the chamber of my gun and not stick them in my ears....

__________________
Get off my lawn!

Say what? Huh? You want to run what?

Attached Images

Hard of Hearing.jpg (19.5 KB, 9 views)