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Old 07-27-2016, 02:39 PM
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Default Tulammo 357 Magnum problem

Tulammo 357 Magnum problem-s-w-386ng-jpgTulammo 357 Magnum problem-tulammo-357-mag-158-fmj-jpg

I never use steel-case ammo in my semi-autos. When I saw the price on this Tulammo revolver ammo, I figured there could be very little risk.

My revolver is a S&W 386NG, .357 Magnum, aluminum/scandium frame, titanium cylinder, steel barrel in a shroud, key lock. I don’t keep track of how many rounds I’ve fired from it, but the number is about 500, commercial and my own handloads. The rounds were probably a near-even mix of .38+P and .357 Magnum of various power levels.

I loaded seven rounds of Tulammo 158-gr FMJ (see photo) and fired one, no problem. I fired the second one and felt no problem but then found I could not pull the trigger, thumb-cock the hammer, nor turn the cylinder by hand. Not even by simultaneously turning the cylinder while pulling the trigger and hammer could I get anything to move. Not even a wiggle. It was as though the cylinder was jammed hard against the blast shield or barrel.

The hammer was down and the trigger was in the correct place for the revolver at rest. The cylinder latch seemed to move a little less than normal, but it moved, but the cylinder would not move when the latch was forward. There was not the slightest wiggle in it.

No bullet had moved forward to jam against the barrel or frame. The remaining five were well back in the chambers. Looking at the back of the cylinder we did not see any shell case touching the blast shield. Similarly, we saw nothing at the front of the cylinder, as if something was going into the chamber throat. That bullet HAD been fired because we had two holes in the target. A hand mirror and small flashlight confirmed there was nothing in the barrel or the chamber behind it.

From previous experience with ammo jams I knew that the gun could not be shipped to a gunsmith that way, and it would be very hard to find ANY gunsmith who would even touch it. With that in mind one of us put all 10 fingers of both hands on the cylinder and attempted to turn it, while the second person simultaneously pulled back on the hammer and trigger.

At first, nothing. After wiggling the cylinder back and forth we felt it loosen a tiny bit. We kept that up until the hammer came back and we were able to lower it and finally open the cylinder.

All shells, fired and unfired, came out using the ejector rod, though considerable force was required. We closed the cylinder and the lockwork seemed to work fine, and the gun appears to be in time.

I wondered if the key lock had somehow moved into lock, but that wouldn’t explain the inability to open the cylinder. Neither of us recall seeing the indicator flag in view. When operating correctly with the lock engaged, the cylinder can still be opened, and wiggled when closed.

I have not fired it since and don’t intend to until I have a clear understanding of what happened, and know that there is no problem. Otherwise, it goes back to S&W for a checkup.

Any thoughts and suggestions are welcome.

Last edited by Harkrader; 07-27-2016 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 07-27-2016, 02:41 PM
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Extra note: Neither fired shell will go back into the chambers. They jam about 2/3rd's of the way in.
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Old 07-27-2016, 03:03 PM
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Don't want to diagnose a problem without seeing the gun, but my guess is the ammo. Prior to using the steel cased rounds, you had fired about 500 rounds of various brands without issue. Load it with the steel case stuff, and wham, problems on the second round, so.......

(OK, I'll take a guess - a round was binding against the breach face / recoil shield. Have had the same exact thing happen with brass that had overly thick rims, or "proud" primers)

Larry
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Old 07-27-2016, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harkrader View Post
When I saw the price on this Tulammo revolver ammo, I figured there could be very little risk.
Any thoughts and suggestions are welcome.

Well, you know what they say right, ya get what you pay for. Not worth the risk shooting that junk foreign ammo. Don't want to sound negative, I hope it doesn't cost you a lot to get it fixed.
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Old 07-27-2016, 03:15 PM
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Undoubtedly the ammo is out of spec and jamming up the gun. Tulammo is ****. Take it to a gunsmith and never fire this Russian garbage again.

I don't mean to preach -- I did something similar with my new 617 -- used some cheap off-brand Mexican ammo in it. It was slightly large, and caused operation problems. (Some Mexican ammo, like Centurion, is great.) Lesson learned.
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Old 07-27-2016, 03:29 PM
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Bad ammo, good gun.
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Old 07-27-2016, 03:55 PM
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Definitely sounds like something was jammed against the recoil shield. Maybe even both fired cases and the combination is why it jammed so hard?
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Old 07-27-2016, 04:03 PM
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Default High pressure, thin primer or both

After first ruling out a loose ejector rod. my guess is that some primer material extruded into the hammer nose hole of the recoil shield. This will surely lock up a revolver. The fix is easy provided you correctly identify the problem: Holding the cylinder release in the release position, give the cylinder a smart whack against a fixed wooden object like the edge of your workbench.

If a primer has extruded, the primer will show the damage as a portion of it will be sheared of by the forcible opening.
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Old 07-27-2016, 04:43 PM
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The included pictures are of the rounds I extracted from the gun. I seem to have deleted pix of the fired primers, but I can take more if someone wants to see them. The primers do not seem to have extruded, etc. I do wonder if, somehow, the firing pin stuck in the primer. The primers are not pierced.
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Old 07-27-2016, 04:44 PM
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Just curious, did the OP install the titanium cylinder? I was under the impression that NG series revolvers used stainless cylinders. The PD series used titanium. The rear sight on the pictured gun is consistent with a NG series. What's the scoop?

Adios,

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Old 07-27-2016, 05:41 PM
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Pizza Bob, I sent the PD revolver to S&W to have the titanium cylinder installed. I had a 386NG with that cylinder and did not see why they hadn't offered it in the PD. They seemed puzzled that I'd ask, but they did it for me.
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Old 07-27-2016, 05:46 PM
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Looks like a ti cylinder to me & both front & rear sights are what came on the nightguard series. It going to be interesting to find out the answer to this mystery.
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Old 07-27-2016, 05:58 PM
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Harkrader, I also concur that your most likely problem is that junk steel ammo. You didn't have a bit of problem until you tried running that junk in your NG. Stay away from all that cheap junk.

If you want to shoot some (relatively) inexpensive ammo, look to someone like Freedom Munitions, who sells both new and re-manufactured ammo. And they use brass, boxer primed cases and even if you don't reload they have some kind of brass credit program to save you a little more money on ammo costs. In 357 Mag, they have some plated 125 grain ammo for less than 30 cents a round and you can catch them with free or reduced flat rate shipping at times too. BTW, I'm not affiliated with them in any way; just trying to help you save some money and stay away from steel and aluminum cased junk in your expensive revolvers.
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:17 PM
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Muddocktor:
I had traveled to another state to shoot with some relatives and forgot to take my own ammo with me. Upon arrival we found 357 Mag ammo hard to find except for premium stuff. Soooo, I made the mistake of thinking the Tulammo for revolvers would not be a problem. I'd never use steel-case ammo in my auto-loaders, but - - -

If I'd had any more time I'd have ordered or driven further to get some better brand-name ammo.
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:23 PM
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I'll take the rest if you don't want them

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Old 07-27-2016, 07:29 PM
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Tulammo 357 Magnum problem-s-w-386pd-386ng-30-jpg
PD or NG?
The gun that had the problem is the 386NG, the one in the photo of my original post, not the PD. I have both.
Just to repeat and clarify:
The NG was purchased with a stainless steel cylinder, which was standard. I wanted to put the titanium cylinder in it to save the weight on what is ALMOST a pocket gun for me. Sooo, to S&W, who did the swap for me.

So what you see in the first picture (original post) is my NG with the titanium cylinder in place. You'll also see the XS Sight System tritium front sight, Cylinder & Slide Extreme Duty rear sight with tritium tubes, and the rubber grips that were on it from S&W.

In the attached pic, the NG is on top, the PD, with Pachmayr grips, is on the bottom.
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:44 PM
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Can`t help with your problem , but I do know that the .357 Tula gets a LOT of Bad Reviews online.
Most of the complaints are due to cases expanding and sticking in Cylinders.
Regards , Pete

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Old 07-27-2016, 07:53 PM
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Hope everything is OK with the gun.

Re Tula ammo. I'm not going to put up any significant defense for it but I have shot a few rounds, maybe 40 or so of 7.62x39 and maybe 100 of 9mm w/o issue.

Having said that, I won't shoot anymore, not worth the worries. Don
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:00 PM
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I order a lot of ammo for my son and I from an online vendor. They have the Tulammo stuff in a variety of sizes. It just keeps getting cheaper and cheaper because I think no one is buying it. The reviews are terrible and caution about the cases splitting or expanding in revolver cylinders.

I will admit to being a sucker for discount bulk when I plan to shoot a lot. Sometimes to my own detriment. I recently ordered a bulk pack of 1000 rounds of 158 gr. FMJ remanufactured .38 Special made by a company called Military Ballistics Industries which seems to have pretty good reviews (far far better than Tulammo). Haven't had a chance to shoot any of it yet, but now I'm a little worried. I'll let you know....

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Old 07-27-2016, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harkrader View Post
Extra note: Neither fired shell will go back into the chambers. They jam about 2/3rd's of the way in.
The case expands when it fires. Brass springs back a lot, steel expands and stays out which can jam on the cylinder. The fired cases may be bucking back against the breech face and "locking there". Hard to guess but steel case ammo has a bunch of different ways to jam guns.
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:18 PM
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Some **** ammo will "crown" the rims when fired and jam up. Measure the gap between the cylinder face and breech face. If it's less than about .060", it can jam this way.
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:19 PM
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ANYONE not wanting their Tula/Wolf/Bear or steel case I'll gladly take it. My Gans don't know the difference between ammo and ammo. Seriously. ..I'll take it

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Old 07-27-2016, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
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ANYONE not wanting their Tula/Wolf/Bear or steel case I'll gladly take it. My Gans don't know the difference between ammo and ammo. Seriously. ..I'll take it

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I've seen spent Tula cases on the ground at the outdoor range we frequent. I guess people don't want to dump it in the brass bucket and don't know what else to do with it.
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Old 07-27-2016, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
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I've seen spent Tula cases on the ground at the outdoor range we frequent. I guess people don't want to dump it in the brass bucket and don't know what else to do with it.
Surprised. Most places I've seen usually have a bucket for steel case

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Old 07-27-2016, 10:19 PM
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Thanks everyone for the thoughts and ideas.
Clearly it was a mistake for *me* to try this ammo. Glad to hear others have done OK with it.
I will send it back to S&W just to be safe.
SD
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Old 07-27-2016, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
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Surprised. Most places I've seen usually have a bucket for steel case

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I think it's the garbage can...

Funny, last night or the night before I stumbled across a DIY youTube about prepping steel case for primers and reloading. Apparently you're not alone (unless it was your youTube), but it did look like there were some extra steps involved.
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Old 07-28-2016, 07:57 AM
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I made a post is the ammo section about Tula in my 27-2 long tube, while it didn't bind up the gun, it was impossible to extract without knocking the empties out with a rod. I tried two cylinders of it with the same results both times. I have 40 rounds in my garage that I can use for a paperweight.
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Old 07-28-2016, 08:28 AM
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Most of us have known for a long time that this ammo is great for use in an AK47/SKS platform weapon, but should be avoided for all other calibers. Cheap ammo is cheap ammo. I wouldn't even chamber a round in any gun I own with the exception of my SKS.
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Old 07-28-2016, 09:17 AM
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When I expressed a relative lack of enthusiasm for Tula I shouldn't have included one of their products that I think is excellent.

Tula is selling brass cased 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP ammo under the name of "Perfecta" and Walmart at least is carrying it.

It appears to be high quality stuff and in my 9mms functions as well as anything else and in my guns that means zero malfunctions. At under $10/box of 50 I find no reason to even think of reloading for the 9mm. Don
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Old 07-28-2016, 09:45 AM
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As far as to who makes perfecta I bought some 45 acp perfecta & I compared it to my Fiocchi 45 acp & they look identical even the plastic cartridge holders are the same. 9mm may be different they were out of it.
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Old 07-28-2016, 10:44 AM
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If "Perfecta" is a Wal*Mart house brand, the OEM could be different manufacturers at different times.
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmorse View Post
If "Perfecta" is a Wal*Mart house brand, the OEM could be different manufacturers at different times.
It's Italian. Made by Fiochi. There is no WM "house brand". WM sells whay they can get cheap and sell cheap (er)

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Old 07-28-2016, 12:10 PM
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We have shot 10s of 1,000s of rounds of steel cased ammo here, none in revolver calibers. The only problem we have ever had is that all steel cased ammo seems to have problems in all striker fired guns here. Failure to ignite, no go Boomie! This same ammo fired in anything with a hammer always works pretty good. 1911s, BHPs, anything with a hammer to whop that hard deeper seated primer. That's all I got!
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Old 07-28-2016, 02:46 PM
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What's the chance it's a lubrication problem - reminded me of the "Jet" problem where the cyl had to be completely clean
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Old 12-28-2016, 03:35 PM
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I just had the same experience a couple of days ago. Used Tulammo steel cased .357 on newish my EEA Windicator. My normal brass rounds by Remington were working fine. I put in the Tulammo and after a shot or two the cylinder jammed. Very difficult to get them out. So I tried them in the Dan Wesson. Same thing. All my other ammo was still working as usual after wards.

I won't be trying Tulammo again or steel cases. Though I had used Tulammo before with no problems.

Note: afterwards I put a Remington round into the cylinder and a Tulammo in the cylinder and compared the flush points of the cartridge butts(end with primer). The Tulammo actually fit a little better, so I assume it has something to do with the manner in which the butt reacts when fired, i.e., expansion problem. I don't know, i'm not an ammo expert, but I do know I wouldn't want that happening when I am needing a bang.
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Old 12-28-2016, 08:41 PM
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Since our new forum member reached deep into the kit to resurrect this old post from mid-summer, I'm curious if the OP has an update with his .357. Since I too believe it was ammo related (but, it could have just been one of those coincidental flukes), if it were me I probably would have run a few cylinders of .38 or .38 +P lead semi-wadcutters or LRN to check the timing and possible lead shaving. If those went fine and the gun didn't have a loose cylinder from the trauma of getting it open after the Tula fiasco, I'd get some brass-cased .357 and see if everything is back to normal.

How about it, OP? Are you monitoring the ammo threads?
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Old 12-28-2016, 08:45 PM
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Everybody knows that Tul Ammo is great for use in an AK/SKS. I gave my son some boxes of it yesterday. You just don't buy Tul in any other caliber for use in any other weapon. I thought that was common knowledge. I don't care if it's a penny a round. I don't want it.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
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ANYONE not wanting their Tula/Wolf/Bear or steel case I'll gladly take it. My Gans don't know the difference between ammo and ammo. Seriously. ..I'll take it

223, 7.62x39, 9, 40, 45, 38acp and 357
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+1. If anyone doesn't want their unfired steel case ammo feel free to ship it to me.

I won't own a gun that won't fire it unless it is a collectible or heirloom.

And ***** at the folks who equate foreign ammo with junk. Many of the highest quality ammo brands are made outside the US and many junk ammo makers can be found in the US. Ammo quality is not correlated with YS made or not
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Old 12-31-2016, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocB View Post
Everybody knows that Tul Ammo is great for use in an AK/SKS. I gave my son some boxes of it yesterday. You just don't buy Tul in any other caliber for use in any other weapon. I thought that was common knowledge. I don't care if it's a penny a round. I don't want it.
Everyone has an opinion. Tula .223 Remington works fine in my AR. Not super accurate, but reliable.
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:05 AM
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Clean and lube the cylinder, load with brass case ammunition, and fire. If it works o.k., it was the ammo. If not, it's something else.
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:31 PM
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Thumbs down Stuck Casings

I recently tried out some TulAmmo .357 magnum steel case, non-corrosive ammo in my S&W 686+. I filled my 7-shot cylinder and was able to fire the first two rounds fine. Upon trying to rotate the cylinder for my third shot, the cylinder stuck. I was able to open the action and rotate by hand and fire the next shot. The sticking continued through the rest of the shots. When I went to eject, the ejector wouldn't budge an inch, I had to pry each round out with my knife, fortunately all rounds were spent. I then proceeded to test one round at a time then two and so on to diagnose the problem. When I loaded and shot one round, no problems, and ejected fine. Even when I loaded two consecutive rounds they both ejected fine. When I loaded a round, skipped a chamber, and loaded another round, the casings would not eject. As I continued this approach adding the next few rounds, it resulted again in failure to eject casings, which were stuck tight in the chamber; as well as failure to rotate the cylinder. Upon my last attempt, I had to use a screwdriver through the front to force the casings out. Not sure if the steel-casings possibly expanded after firing which caused them to stick in the chamber or if the size of the flange of the rim of the casing was too big and wedged against each other preventing the ejector from moving? I don't think I made it a third of the way through a box before I concluded I would not be buying this ****ty steel-cased Russian ammo again.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:45 PM
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Keep in mind this steel cased ammo garbage was originally designed for some Cossack to carry around to shoot political dissidents with in the back of the head and to do it as cheaply as possible for the benefit of the Soviet.

It is not good ammunition. Shy from it, and carry American.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:21 AM
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Default Rather than buy crummy ammo....

I like to shoot a lot and there's no way I could keep paying for commercial, so i reload. More expensive rounds like revolver and rifle save a tone of money.

Several times I've take the opportunity to buy cheap ammo and I've been disappointed every time.
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:27 AM
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A lot of the steel cased ammo being sold today may have a coating on it
that sometimes builds up and you get stuck cases. I will not use steel cased ammo in any of my rifles or handguns. The only exception is using Royal Tiger steel cases 7.62x39 in my Chinese sks. And even then will do a serious cleaning of the chamber to remove any coating buildup. So far so good. Paid less than $100 for the sks. Frank
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:54 AM
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Don't leave polymer coated cases in a hot chamber. The polymer softens and will nearly weld itself inside the chamber while cooling. Chrome lined chambers are more resistant to this effect.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:06 PM
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Sorry to "zombie" this thread but I had to chime in........I tried the TulAmmo .357 today for the first time in a DA revolver, one of my range beater Ruger GP100's......fired fine, very accurate, but I had to tap the ejector rod against a piece of wood to get the shells out.

Normally I HATE doing this as the risk of breaking the ejector star makes my skin crawl but I had nothing else left but this ammo, no cleaning rod, and I was determined to get some range time in. Plus the ejector star on a GP100 is like 1/16" thick.......after 8 cylinders of having to use moderate tapping to get the cases out I called it quits and just fired some .22 before leaving.

This same revolver worked beautifully with over 1,000 rounds of TulAmmo .38 last summer , must be the increased pressure causing the cases to stick. Oh well, there's always the next range day.

That said my .357 Blackhawk loves the TulAmmo stuff, and sticky cases aren't an issue for plinking with a single action.

I have a 1,000 round case of the TulAmmo .38 left, $240 is too good a price not to keep buying the .38 stuff. However it does not get used in anything but "range blaster/training" revolvers.
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