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Old 08-01-2016, 10:49 PM
Crew Schielke Crew Schielke is offline
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Default Best Defensive Ammo for 44 Magnum?

Can anyone recommend an effective defensive round for my S&W Model 629-6 with a 3 inch barrel? I read that a bullet on the lighter side with high velocity and expansion but lower penetration is best. I also understand that in New Jersey where I live hollowpoints, although technically legal, are strictly regulated by statute and that use or possession of them may expose me to criminal prosecution even if I can show that an exception to their general prohibition applies. I read that there are effective alternatives to hollowpoints that meet self defense criteria. I was thinking that a 180 grain jacketed soft point might be best. But the literature I read about this round suggests it is more typically used for hunting, not self defense. I would appreciate suggestions identifying the name, size, weight, load, etc. of a bullet type. A link would be great. Thanks!
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Old 08-01-2016, 11:19 PM
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I think you'd probably be better off using .44 Special rather than .44 Magnum for self defense, and given that using a non-HP load is likely necessary for your situation a LSWC loading will probably be your best bet. Hopefully some others with more experience with .44 Special/.44 Magnum loads will chime in.

You should also try searching the forums if you haven't already, particularly the "Concealed Carry and Self Defense" and "Ammo" forums. Here's a link to start you out:

Best .44 Magnum Defense Load?
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Old 08-01-2016, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crew Schielke View Post
Can anyone recommend an effective defensive round for my S&W Model 629-6 with a 3 inch barrel? Thanks!
2 legs or 4 legs ? If it's 2 what ever you use and where ever it lands there gonna know it.
If it's 4 I'd go strictly perhaps a semiwadcutter get through the tough hide and crush bone.

Although even with that if you only wound certain 4 legged you better run like you know what.
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Old 08-01-2016, 11:37 PM
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I am going to assume you want a round for self defense against predators of the 2 legged variety. Since hollow points are a no no in your state, I would look hard at the Hornady 165 grain FTX bullet in 44 special. They have been tested to have very good expansion, and are not considered a hollow point by NJ law.

A soft point jacketed, or hard cast SWC type bullet will give a lot of penetration, and little expansion. The 44 spl. is a very controllable and effective cartridge for self defense. Full power 44 mag, not so much when it comes to controllability.

If you reload, a soft cast SWHP may work well for you, loaded to about 900 - 1000 fps. Sort of like the old FBI load in the 38 spl., only better.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...28617741,d.eWE

Larry

Last edited by Fishinfool; 08-02-2016 at 05:41 AM.
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Old 08-02-2016, 03:51 AM
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As noted above, it makes a big difference if you are dealing with bipeds or quadrupeds. I would be inclined to go with a 44 special half-jacketed soft point or even a SWC due to legal considerations in New Jersey. A full-blown .44 Mag is excessive for people shooting and could give you some over-penetration issues.
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:32 AM
sirpazhan sirpazhan is offline
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You could look into Corbon Glaser Safety Slugs (Glaser Safety Slug) -- Light bullets (135 gr) and good velocity 1300 fps -
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Old 08-02-2016, 06:31 AM
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240 grain lswc at 900 fps in special cases is what I'd load up and carry.
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Old 08-02-2016, 07:25 AM
mazer mazer is offline
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Well, I carry a 44mag every single day! For around town I use Hornady Critical Defense 165gr 44spls, for the field...well....most of the time I shoot a 300gr SWCGC bullet, I use them in everything from my 2"snubbies to my 7.5" long range pieces. In the pic below, there are only two that are not 44 magnums. the GP100 on the left and the Pre-model 10 38spl on the right.

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Old 08-02-2016, 07:44 AM
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With a 3" .44 Magnum I would think just about anything that fits the cylinder will be considered an effective defensive round.

Stu
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:31 AM
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Guys, this is New Jersey. ...he's talking about people not animals. Not many places you can carry outside your own property in NJ. To get a carry license in NJ you have to personally know the President of the United States, NJ Governor, the Pope and the Dalai Lama. Thats about the only way you carry a gun outside your house in NJ. And unless he lives in the Pine Barrens the only bears he'd see is on tv.

I would go with something completely different. 9/40/45. It's easier to control and have less penetration. If you miss and that 44 mag round goes outside your house ....well it's NJ! Why are you using a bear gun? Remember this is the state that attempted to prosecute a man for have a relic. A gun so old that even the Federal Government doesn't consider it a gun. A gun so old it was older than the revolution! Yet the DA attempted to prosecute based on the fact that it was a concealed (glove box) gun

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Old 08-02-2016, 09:40 AM
mazer mazer is offline
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I lived in NJ for 40 years, I carried anyway (although I'll admit it was a 9mm not a 44...didn't start carrying the 44 till I got to SC). I had a route that ran me through Camden, I had lots of cash and you could plan where i'd be. A 44spl will do the job, most SD ammo is low recoil anyways, that and an expanding bullet won't go through too many walls!
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:04 AM
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Any firearm and New Jersey doesn't mix. If I remember correctly, New Jersey is a MUST RETREAT state?? Even if it's a justifiable good shooting, (in your own home) you will probably be arrested, charged, all of your firearms confiscated and subjected to a long drawn out series of expensive court hearings.
In the end, even if you are found not guilty (or cleared) in a criminal court, you will be sued in civil court by the home invader or their family.
If you are determined to use a firearm for home protection in New Jersey, I would recommend something other than a .44 Mag! The publicity alone would be damming, as you would be portrayed as a "Dirty Harry".
I would go low key and stick with a .38 Spl. as that doesn't have an "over kill" appearance.
Just my humble opinion........
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:44 AM
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Politics aside, I second the Glaser recommendation although I don't believe they're produced anymore.

I think you can still get MagSafes in .44 Magnum but that's even more extreme...55gr bullet that'll probably clock about 2000fps from a snub. Will shoot really low and probably a fireball that can be seen from the International Space Station.

I don't know much about NJ law on hollowpoints but if the Hornady Critical Defense is indeed legal it's probably the best all-around choice. All things being equal, lighter bullet = less felt recoil for the muzzle energy. If Corbon made a Pow'rBall in .44 Special it too would be a great choice.
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:15 AM
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I've been using Winchester Silvertip 44 specials, but mainly because they were accurate in my gun.
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazer
I had a route that ran me through Camden, I had lots of cash and you could plan where i'd be.
How are you not dead? When you were done collecting the rents or whatever, did you take some R&R vacations in Mog or Fallujah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik
And unless he lives in the Pine Barrens the only bears he'd see is on tv.
There's actually a pretty significant black bear problem all across the state, top to bottom, pretty much anyplace that's not Newark/Jersey City/Hoboken/Weehawken/Atlantic City.

Fortunately, only one attack on one incredibly stupid scoutmaster that decided crawling into a small cave was a good idea. Momma bear exercised her Castle Doctrine.

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As for loading your .44 Magnum with .44 Special loads, why buy a .44 Magnum if all you intended to shoot was the MUCH less powerful Special?
Because it is literally overkill.

Unless you get a more violent expansion and shock out of the deal, once the bullet is going through the target, any additional power is just a waste of recoil. And a .44 Magnum at full power will shoot through a moose. It will also shoot through several layers of innocent bystander!

Now, more-power-more-power-more-power may seem all well and good, but in the real world, people do this thing called "missing". And when they "miss" a threat, they need to get back on-target so they can try again. .44 Special out of a heavy N-frame is a easy to shoot, and easy to shoot fast. .44 Magnum out of a heavy N-frame requires some serious attention to recoil absorption.

Besides, .44 Special is a 180- or 200-grain bullet at around 1000 FPS. That's pretty damn stout. 10mm Auto self-defense ammo is around a 200-grain bullet at 1000 FPS, and nobody would argue 10mm is anything but capable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
I think you'd probably be better off using .44 Special rather than .44 Magnum for self defense, and given that using a non-HP load is likely necessary for your situation a LSWC loading will probably be your best bet. Hopefully some others with more experience with .44 Special/.44 Magnum loads will chime in.

You should also try searching the forums if you haven't already, particularly the "Concealed Carry and Self Defense" and "Ammo" forums. Here's a link to start you out:

Best .44 Magnum Defense Load?
+1. I See what you did there.

To the OP: Check out Buffalo Bore. They have a wide variety of lead-bullet SD ammo. Including a 200-grain full wadcutter--although I would personally suggest that a semiwad be used, in conjunction with a speedloader.
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:34 AM
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Underwood makes a 200g Gold dot HP 44Spl at 1100fps. Apparently the fps is accurate as so many have chrono'd it.

Energy is wasted with the magnum and more importantly, follow-up shots are difficult due to the recoil.

I load a 250/265g SWC to 850~900fps in both Spl and magnum cases and would not hesitate to use it in a social situation. Fortunately I would expect this to never happen, but it's comforting to know it is capable.
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:39 AM
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Buffalo bore has a few mid range defense loads for 44 magnums.

180 gr jhp, a swc hollow pt, and a wadcutter.
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:40 AM
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A 44 mag 3" is alot of gun to carry. Maybe it is all you have, that being so a 44 Special is the safe ticket. Being that it is a 44 Magnum, it leaves lots of room for the range of more powerful rounds for other applications. It is a very intimidating weapon if presented, and hopefull that is all it will take to make the aggresive person think twice about his plan. Out of the three times I have drawn my gun, twice I have not had to fire it, the two legged kind changed their mind on the spot. The third was a black bear deep in the back bush, but again we both lived. Good luck with your choice. Remember to always follow the law, and stay alert.
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:09 PM
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Anything in 44mag will be sufficient for SD. Just sayin'.
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Old 08-02-2016, 02:06 PM
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Buffalo Bore Heavy 44 Special with a 255 gr Keith-style lead semi-wadcutter. Keith-style bullets were the go-to round for self defense prior to the advent of hollow points.
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Old 08-02-2016, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
There's actually a pretty significant black bear problem all across the state, top to bottom, pretty much anyplace that's not Newark/Jersey City/Hoboken/Weehawken/Atlantic City..
...... Trenton, Ewing, Cherry Hill, Bordentown, Pennsauken, Burlington ....

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Old 08-02-2016, 03:32 PM
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Hornady Critical Defense for any caliber. Excellent ammo!
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Old 08-02-2016, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
To the OP: Check out Buffalo Bore. They have a wide variety of lead-bullet SD ammo. Including a 200-grain full wadcutter--although I would personally suggest that a semiwad be used, in conjunction with a speedloader.
I'm a fan of Buffalo Bore, but I'm really only familiar with their .38 Special loads. I think a hardcast WC in the gun and LSWC for reloads, both in .44 Special, sounds like a reasonable solution to me.
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:14 PM
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The 44 SPL is a very capable handgun cartridge.
165 gr Critical Defense in town.
140 gr Keith in the woods.

Best,
Rick
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:45 PM
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For every day SD carry, full out .44 Magnum is a lot to handle in a small revolver (or any revolver). On the other hand, .44 Special is generally loaded well below its potential ballistics. Hornady "Critical Defense" uses a 165 Gr TPX (gummy tip) at 900 fps, or about 297 ft-lb. This is significantly below SD pistol ballistics, which runs about 400 ft-lb for 9mm, .40 SW and .45 ACP.

Something with a 240 grain bullet at 900 fps would yield about 433 ft-lb, powerful yet easily managed (unless you think .45 ACP is over the top). That's a lot hotter than anything I find in reloading tables for .44 Special, but in line for .45 Colt or .45 ACP +P. Grizzly makes .44 Special with these ballistics, with an HP half-jacketed bullet.

It's well below what a .44 Magnum revolver can handle, yet not going to blow up a .44 Special.

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Old 08-02-2016, 09:52 PM
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Dirty Harry notwithstanding, I simply can't see carrying a .44 Magnum for self defense in an urban setting,

Sure, it'll be "adequate" on humans, as someone put it. So would .460. But that kind of power is neither required nor safe in an urban defensive situation, in my opinion. I personally would feel really terrible if I "adequately" center punched a miscreant and my bullet continued on its way and took out somebody's grandma. Or kid.

I would feel a lot more confident and no less well-protected with .44 Special, or another proven caliber altogether.

And I am very, very glad I live in gun-friendly Kentucky and not New Jersey.
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:04 AM
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i wouldn't pooh-pooh any round with 300 ft lbs ME punching a nearly half-inch hole. 300 ft lbs means it hits with enough impact force to move 300 pounds one foot. I look at it this way - very few people weigh anywhere near 300 lbs. Most are more like 200 lbs and 300 ft lbs of force will in effect move 200 pounds a distance of a foot and a half.

So we're (generally) talking about enough force to knock the average guy back a foot and a half - and don't forget the part about punching a half inch hole most or all the way through them at the same time.

Even mildly warm 44 specials are MORE than up to the task of stopping 99.9% of people with one shot. To me the only 44 magnums that are really practical concealed carry guns are the 5-rounders like the Taurus Tracker - specifically the 44C 2.5" snub model. Not sure if S&W made one that's similar but the Taurus fits most K-frame 38/357 snubbie holsters about perfectly, and at 23 ounces it weighs about the same as the K-frame snubbies too. It's like carrying a J-frame (5-shots) on steroids (44 mag capable). 200-240 grain hot specials handloaded with SWC or RNFP profiles - anything with a wide meplat - at around 900-1000 fps is going to deliver a DEV-A-STAT-ING punch and still be quite manageable in terms of recoil.

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Old 08-03-2016, 12:41 AM
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.44 special. Old fat and slow has gotten it done for a long time.

Underwood makes some hot .44 special loads at 1000 fps. They have a 200 grain full wadcutter that should be very effective. Item # 736.

Or Underwood .44 special 255 grain Keith bullet at 1000 fps. Item # 737.
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Old 08-03-2016, 08:38 AM
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Groo here
The hardcast wadcutter from Buffelo Bore in 44 spec
at 200gr /1000 fps. or 44mag at 200gr / 1300fps [ woods load.]
after that use your own judgment.
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:08 PM
Mike_Fontenot Mike_Fontenot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertrwalsh View Post
[...]
A full-blown .44 Mag is excessive for people shooting and could give you some over-penetration issues.
[...]
I don't agree. When the bears are asleep (winter), in my .44mag S&W69 primary-carry, I alternate 180gr XTP's, 200gr Noslers, and 240gr XTP's, all Underwood. I don't think over-penetration with those lighter two bullets in bad-guys is an issue at all. The 240gr bullets are in there in case I NEED more penetration than the lighter bullets are giving me; and the 240gr XTP's aren't the ideal bear load anyway, because their penetration is on the low side for a bear. Besides, there's no over-penetration like a miss, no matter what cartridge you're shooting!
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:26 PM
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"i wouldn't pooh-pooh any round with 300 ft lbs ME punching a nearly half-inch hole. 300 ft lbs means it hits with enough impact force to move 300 pounds one foot. I look at it this way - very few people weigh anywhere near 300 lbs. Most are more like 200 lbs and 300 ft lbs of force will in effect move 200 pounds a distance of a foot and a half."
That's not how Newton's Laws of Motion work. By conservation of momentum, a 300 lb object would be accelerated to a blistering 0.1 fps. It works the same at both ends of the trajectory. Do you get shoved back 1-1/2 feet when you shoot a .44 Special? (If so, it's because you're flinching.)

I still think a reasonable goal would be to approximate or exceed the terminal ballistics of .45 ACP. The old black powder .45 Colt, 40 grains of BP in a balloon cartridge, would get 900 fps with a 250 grain bullet (500 ft-lb).

Last edited by Neumann; 08-03-2016 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:27 PM
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44 Special

230 grain lead round nose

Not 44 Magnum

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Now, more-power-more-power-more-power may seem all well and good, but in the real world, people do this thing called "missing". And when they "miss" a threat, they need to get back on-target so they can try again. .44 Special out of a heavy N-frame is a easy to shoot, and easy to shoot fast. .44 Magnum out of a heavy N-frame requires some serious attention to recoil absorption.
I do not understand why people continue to ignore the simple physics of that statement. Wise A is so so soooo correct. The .44 Magnum was not designed for an urban setting and, by the way, Dirty Harry loaded .44 Specials in his gun. In one scene in a later movie our hero makes a statement to that effect.

It's really not much different when it comes to .357 Magnum in some of the lighter weight revolvers. You will miss, everyone misses, especially under stress, and you will not get a hard kicking .357 Magnum back on target the way you can get a .38 Special back into the fray for a second shot. In heavier guns it's not a big deal. .44 Magnum is ALWAYS a big deal; it's not a good caliber for a defensive round against predatory bipeds in your domicile and it is even worse on the street for that purpose.

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Old 08-03-2016, 03:48 PM
Mike_Fontenot Mike_Fontenot is offline
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[...] it's not a good caliber for a defensive round against predatory bipeds in your domicile and it is even worse on the street for that purpose.
I carry my .44mag from pajamas-off until pajamas-on, every day. I prefer it to any of my other handguns.
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:52 PM
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Hornady Custom and LeverEvolution.
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:18 PM
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Since it's a .44Mag, I'd use the lightest bullet you can find pushed as fast as possible. Heavy bullets in the .44 shot into a human torso don't really expend much energy on the body, but merely pass right on through similarly to what a fmj would do. The only thing the .44 magnum has going for it when shooting people is the fact that the bullet starts out at least at a .429" diameter. You'd be much better served with a fast .357 in the 125 gr range or a really good 9mm specialty defense round for personal protection. That said, if you need to shoot through things like windshields and such, then the .44 would be tops.
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:24 PM
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Speer makes a 44 Magnum version of the short barrel ammo with a 200 grain gold dot. It is excellent. There is also a 200 grain Speer 44 special but the special is loaded for a longer barrel and doesn't perform good in magnums. I used it (magnum version) in my 629-1 3" with good results. I have also used the 44 special version in my 696 and it seems Ok.
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:29 PM
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Best Defensive Ammo for 44 Magnum?
Anyone you want, Good Gawd it's a 44 for Gawd's Sake...
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:33 PM
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I think you'd probably be better off using .44 Special rather than .44 Magnum for self defense, and given that using a non-HP load is likely necessary for your situation a LSWC loading will probably be your best bet.
I was going to suggest a mild target load. Facetiously, of course.
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:05 PM
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Guys, this is New Jersey. ...he's talking about people not animals. Not many places you can carry outside your own property in NJ. To get a carry license in NJ you have to personally know the President of the United States, NJ Governor, the Pope and the Dalai Lama. Thats about the only way you carry a gun outside your house in NJ. And unless he lives in the Pine Barrens the only bears he'd see is on tv.

I would go with something completely different. 9/40/45. It's easier to control and have less penetration. If you miss and that 44 mag round goes outside your house ....well it's NJ! Why are you using a bear gun? Remember this is the state that attempted to prosecute a man for have a relic. A gun so old that even the Federal Government doesn't consider it a gun. A gun so old it was older than the revolution! Yet the DA attempted to prosecute based on the fact that it was a concealed (glove box) gun

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For home defense I load down my .357 to where it's better than a .38+P, more of a low end .357.

Thank goodness I don't live in a gun hating state and can practically shoot anybody I want to........

...but actually I AM worried about over penetration inside my brick house. My BIL had a guy at his apartment complex shoot a 9mm that went through the exterior and several inside walls of his apartment with his wife and two children inside.

PS Please also consider that you very likely will have to make follow up shots and recovery time between shots needs to be fast and complete.
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Last edited by rwsmith; 09-03-2016 at 04:16 PM.
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