I'm sure my first shot would have killed it, but I wanted instant kill. As for the feeding them, my wife used to throw bread to a squirrel that was on our deck. I told her to stop but she kept doing it. One day, I come into the kitchen and the squirrel is on my screen. I popped it with an Airsoft gun at point blank range. It ran off and never came back.

Seems to me that plenty of mobsters have died from one behind the ear

__________________
Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

But did they die instantly?

Funny, I seen this thread and really had nothing to offer but yesterday I was talking to a Sheriff who was a former cop in Chicago and he was saying every cop he knows fears the 22 more than anything, he said the can hit you anywhere and just travel all through your body tearing a lot up. Me, I don't even want to get hit with a BB if possible.

In my state there have been two accidental firearms deaths this summer--both by a single shot from a 22lr.

One was a national news story about a 14 year-old boy accidentally killed by his father at a local gun range with an SR22. The boy was sitting 3' behind the firing position. Coroner said the bullet entered the side of the neck at a downward angle and pierced an artery near the heart and lodged in the abdomen. The boy died from internal bleeding 1 hour later despite paramedics arriving quickly at the scene.

The other involved a man in his mid-50s who was found dead in his driveway and the coroner decided a .22 bullet lodged in his spine at the base of his skull was the cause of death. Police investigation found that the bullet traveled 2 city blocks from the backyard of a person who was target shooting with a .22 handgun and using a wooden fence as a backstop.

So I'd say the .22lr does not get the respect it deserves.

If you are putting down a suffering animal or shooting a Varmit
38, 44, ect it really doesn't matter. If you are hunting small game
For the table or for fur, you don't want to shoot it with a gun that
blows it apart. A serious Hunter picks his shot, rabbits and
squirrels aren't very big animals, any decent shot with a 22 will
fetch them. There used to be a lot of practical guns for small game. 25rf, 32rf, 32, 32/20, 25/20 just to name a few. Gun
companies since WW2 have dropped them and magnumtized
every thing. I wonder If anyone has done a study of 22 LR ammo
killing power vs the weight of these small game animals? I would
guess the the ratio would be higher than some accepted deer
calibres vs weight of deer. I remember reading articles on cals
such as the 357 revolver ,author would claim it a lightning killer on deer.
Then you would read a article about a 357 carbine, author would
claim it marginal deer gun. You have to take what you read with
a grain of salt. I know guys who have shot thousands of rounds
more than I have, on a range. Never hunted in their lives. What
do guys like this know about shooting squirrels? Nothing...

lots of deer taken with 22s. that's supposed to be the weapon of choice for poachers.
i could take a deer with my 22/45 pistol, because it is i my precision gun. a bullet in the ear at 50 yards would be no problem.
you can't say that about most center fires.

__________________
susie

I shot a deer from about 50 yards one time. I was aiming between the eye and the ear, which for my old ranger .22 rifle, that is not very far. I was using CCI mini mag hollow points. The deer looked away right when I pulled the trigger. The bullet went in behind it's ear and exited out between the eyes. The deer dropped where it was standing with brains on its face. Since I was a kid I've killed many deer by placing the bullet between the eye and ear. I don't deer hunt with a .22 anymore, but if I had to, I would not hesitate. I have never had to shoot one more than once.
Peace,
Gordon

__________________
better have that checked

Talking about killing things for fun, a friend of mine that moved here from upstate NY shot a ground hog one time. I told him that people have been known to eat them so since he killed it, then we should clean it and eat it. We cleaned it and put it in the freezer. Later that winter we took it out and put on to boil atop the pot bellied stove in the living room. When we came back from hunting it was done. Tender and tasted great. Later on I found out we had cooked a tame rabbit that my Wifes Grandmother had given us. I did cook the ground hog later and it was so tough you could drive nails with it and tasted rough. I wonder how many ground hogs that guy tried to eat not knowing the one we had was tame rabbit.
Peace,
Gordon

__________________
better have that checked

Young ones are tender & the best eating.
Old ones need to spend some time in a crock pot to soften up.

We eat young groundhogs all the time. We like them pressure
cooked and put in crock pot with Barbq sauce. The old ones we
don't bother with. Some people turn up their nose at the groundhog, it lives on vegetation. Same people don't give a thought about eating chicken, they will eat just about anything.
When there was a lot of groundhogs around here, the Sportsman
clubs would have a groundhog feed every summer. They would
have them cooked several different ways. Better eat'n than a
Big Mack.

The squirrel dropped and scrambled about 6 feet, before it died. It didn't suffer long. I'd rather get a certain kill than a wounding shot or clear miss. Aiming for center mass gives me better odds.

i have never seen an evil bunny run after a center of mass shot.
you really don't need a head shot because a little 22 won't spoil meat.

__________________
susie

The good old boys brag loudly about all the times they poached things with their 22's, but seem to be a bit more quiet about all the animals they maimed and injured over the years by unethical hunting. I remember a quote somewhere about fate being "Claiming all of your victories but not any of your failures" and 22 long rifle hob nobbing is 100% the same thing. I know these kinds of people in person, many, many of them, who sit around and brag about every time their trusty 22 long rifle never failed them, except for all the times it did.

The whole thing is 1/3rd ego, "I'm such a great shot I can kill anything with just my rimfire", 1/3rd love of our old favorite plinking cartridge that we will go to any length to make excuses and lies for, and 1/3rd bigotry of soft expectation, "the 22 long rifle is looked down upon, so whenever it succeeds where it shouldn't, we over emphasize its victories".

Also the whole "22's bounce around in your body" thing is a complete lie and a myth, a hoax, an urban legend. Just like any old wives tale, its true because like any Big Lie, it has been retold enough to become "true", an such a fantastic story we just HAVE to believe it. The 22 has extremely poor penetration power, and does not have the ability to pierce very far in the body at all, certainly no where near the magical fantasy land ability to bounce around a torso. If the 22 is the most feared gun by cops, why aren't they carrying them? Sounds like someone was told a tall tale, is propagating a myth, or we can question this "sheriff" from Chicago.

Take a good long look at a list of logical fallacies and find "cherry picking", and read deeply into it. Without such a concept, the 22 long rifle doesn't have much of a leg to stand on.

well, i wouldn't shoot a big animal with a 22, except in emergency.
if i get hungry enow, i'll do what i must.
i do think the 22lr is underrated. it is deadly.
a well placed shot should do what you need.

i never heard about 22s bouncing around in a body. they don't in a bunny.
what i have heard is that mafiosos used them because the bullet would penetrate the skull n the brain, but would bounce back from the other side
of the skull, tearing lots of brain tissue.
i don't know that from experience but it sounds reasonable.
anyway, i just like my 22s n i'm more accurate with them.

__________________
susie

.22 ammo is just as instantly lethal as your shot placement makes it.

In the context of squirrel hunting, there is debate on RN vs HP, in that HP allegedly destroys too much shoulder meat on body shots. But for the OP's situation that isn't an issue.

I get it about the OP's situation of wishing lower noise. I like the CCI Quiet, but you do need to be realistic about what it is. At rated rifle velocities, has 45 ft lb of energy. This is a lot closer to the 32ft lb of a CB Long than the 73 ft lb of .22 Short.

The CCI Quiet is also offered in a 3 piece segmented HP in addition to the RNL. For use on small game, the segmented HP would be the way to go.

In a coincidence, I also just finished reading ( listening) that Sanford book. Just now, I googled up some velocity testing of CCI Quiet from pistols. I found a blog post by the late Bob Campbell using a 5in Sig 1911 .22lr . He reported 675 fps. A small drop from rifle velocities, but in the absolute sense, only 29ft lb . Upon reading what ammo the BG was loading, my imeadate thought was to the effect of " Damn, that wouldn't penetrate a skull very well" , and the story bore that out. Not that I'm recomending.22lr for SD, but at least HV.22lr RN will penetrate.

Also, not that I condone such things, just reporting data points. : According to people who poached deer with 10/22 . CCI MiniMag HP, multiple shots to the lungs, shooting as rapidly as making hits. The deer usually dropped before the 10 shot mag emptied.

You're saying that a .22 short has more lethality than the CCI Quiets? One thing Sandford got wrong was the gun cycling with the quiets. I know mine won't and I have heard of nine thst will. I believe it even says it won't cycle the bolt on their website.

I tried some CCI Quiets the other day in a CMMG .22 RF upper on an AR15. They would cycle the bolt far enough to eject the spent case and feed the next round. They would not move the bolt back far enough for the hammer to reset approx 75 percent of the time.

I could probably get the hammer to reset using a reduced power hammer spring, however that may impact reliable ignition. Still may be worth some experimentation...

Out of a bolt action Rem 541T-HB, they are surprisingly accurate, at least to the 35 yard distance I was shooting. According to my wife they are no louder than my Beeman .177 air rifle.

Well, a .22 Short has more ft lb of energy . Usually it is pointed that ft lb of energy is not a particularly good predictor of terminal effect on critters, but here we are getting close to minium floor levels. The other factor is bullet type. A segmented Quiet vs RNL Short would be an interesting comparison.

I read the linked thread on the other forum, which among other things reported a large string of one shot kills on wild boar with CB Longs ( from rifle). My take away was shot placement, surgical shot placement. The poster didn't just aim for "head shot" but for the ear canal, or specific vertabrae at base of skull.

The other take away for me, is with pest removal in a target rich environment, one can be selective for the perfect angle to present itself, and pass up any that don't. If one is putting down an injured animal, or dispatching one in a trap, you often have to take the shot , in narrow time window. This would call at minium for the ability to penetrate a skull from any angle.

CCI Quiets cycle fine in Rem 552, he he. For that matter just fine in bolt action and Single Six. I have read of tuning the springs in a 10/22 to cycle with Shorts, so it would be similarily possible to do so for Quiets. Interoperability with "normal" .22lr would be a different question.

Ask officer Coats. I watched the officers dash cam video. Death was less than a minute.

Trooper Mark Hunter Coates, South Carolina Highway Patrol, South Carolina

My Remington 550-1 will cycle CCI Quiets just fine. Remington used a "recoiling chamber," as they called it, in the 550's and they shot ".22 short, long and long rifle, interchangeably." The 'floating chamber' has been used in sub caliber kits for pistols for decades and works very well, as long as it is cleaned properly.

100% lethal??? Maybe a supersonic telephone pole. Everything else falls to a simple rule..Penetration and placement...........Period...........

Back when I lived in Alaska, we went rabbit hunting in the wintertime. we all used .22 rifles and usually it only took one shot in the head or the body to kill them cleanly. These were big arctic hares and we would take dozens of them. Boiled with spices, pick the meat off the bones and make stew or pie. Hey , when you're hungry and poor, they're not bad. Also, a friend had me dispatch his pigs for him at slaughter time. One shot behind the ear with my old Star .22 target pistol, they would go down like a sack of potatoes.

That squirrel may have had rabies, better if you can nail it with a shotgun of some sort. But I would think if it did you need to get 'em in the head then with that .22. Good thing you didn't get to close ya never know. Them and raccoons notorious rabies carriers.

And a raccoon will come after you and they are viscous and highly intelligent.

__________________
Mulebuk Sam and the Governor

I carry a 351PD around my little ranch and have used it to dispatch many injured critters up to Coyote size. Granted it's a 22 mag, but a head shot works every time. Just my $0.02, but something small like a ground squirrel or rabbit is more humane to just put the heel of your boot or shoe on it's neck and step down hard and quick. No miss - no mess.

If rabies is a possibility, then try to avoid a head shot. The brain is needed to confirm a rabies infection. Tough choice, huh?

If they try to attack you they got rabies. If you get bit and don't die or go insane within 48-72 hours you should be good to go. However if bit it may still be a wise precaution to seek medical attention. Of course they'll probably still recommend the battery of shots as a precaution.

Best thing to do I would guess is to keep your practice to paper targets only.

__________________
Mulebuk Sam and the Governor

Back in my youth, deer poaching was a fairly common practice in the hills of Southern Ohio (in fact, at that time, Ohio did not even have a deer season), and I knew some of those poachers, one being a close relative. They universally used .22 rifles, primarily because of the low noise level. Those guys were real marksmen, and seldom missed a head shot on a deer, mostly at fairly close range.

"Complete lie and myth" ? I wonder if I'll believe a guy that worked 25 years in the murder capitol of the USA and over 20 years working a smaller dept, and has been shot at and seen autopsies and coroner results or some "forum expert" ? I think I know which way I'll lean

.22s don't bounce around. Duckford is correct. It is just an urban legend that keeps getting repeated by people who have never been in an autopsy and seen how bullets work. Bullets don't bounce around, not even .22. I wouldn't call it lie tho. For it to be a lie the person telling has to know the truth yet tells something other than the truth. When a person says a .22 bounces around they're just showing they don't know enough to know the truth but decide to believe some other equally uninformed person. It's not a lie. It's just that they don't know any better. But even the uninformed should realize a round won't bounce around if they had even a small amount of shooting experience. Think about it. Why is the same old story always about a .22 bouncing around? Never hear the story told about any other caliber. Yet the .22 with an extremely light weight bullet made of all soft lead traveling at nothing special speed seems to have the magical ability to bounce around in a body. It doesn't take much common sense to smell something wrong with the story.
But it makes a good campfire story to try to impress others who don't have a clue and are gullible enough to believe just about anything as long as they don't have to think too hard about it.
And yeah, I've been in a number of autopsies including those shot by .22 and have talked to more than just a few pathologists. Never has anyone I've ever talked to who has actually BTDT seen a .22 or any other round bounce around. Bullets may deflect a few degrees when hitting a bone at a particular angle but that's not 'bouncing around'. They won't magically turn 180* and come back thru more tissue only to strike something else hard and make another about face. Think about it. If they had enough energy to 'bounce around' then they'd have enough to penetrate the object causing it to bounce around. Bone really isn't that hard of material.

__________________
183rd FBINA

No wonder Elmer Keith said:''ain't got no use for the pipsqueak''.
Qc

I had to take care of a groundhog that was tunneling along the foundation of my house. A Ruger 10/22 with CCI Stinger from about 20 ft. One shot to the head and he was done.

As for squirrels, I was at the range a few weeks ago. I met an elderly couple there that was shooting at paper targets with a picture of a squirrel on them, lol. The wife informed me that they raid her garden, so she takes care if them with her .357 haha. I'd imagine that's pretty messy.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Messy, but effective! Now if she'd use wadcutter .38s there would still be meat for the pot.

How instantly lethal is a .22LR round? Like a lot in life, it all depends. I do hunt. On small game, the .22 LR is outstanding. Zero at 50 yds. Typically use a 77-22 or a Win. 9422. Either one is good for headshot out to 50 yds. The scoped 77-22 is good for head shots on out to about 75 yds. if able to brace my hands on a tree trunk, etc.

For small game on the larger end of the spectrum, I prefer a 40 gr. RN... or flat tip if possible. In my experience it penetrates better. For such stuff, I shoot for the heart/lungs. A .22 LR on a fox works well, but you got to hit the kill zone. On such light skinned animals, the HP will work maybe better. But to be honest, I use whatever is at hand and shot accordingly.


Just for the record, Thunderbolts are fine. Once upon a time when .22 LR ammo was commonly available, my mother-in-law would buy me a couple of bricks a year as birthday, Christmas gifts. She had no idea at all of how much shooting I was doing. One of those bricks would hold me for maybe a Saturday morning! Cool.

One summer I mounted a 6.5x20 Leupold on top of that little 77-22. Firing from a rest of homemade sandbags, I could routinely keep 10 rounds under 1.5 inches at 100 yds. On several occasions I got groups of less than 1 inch. For many many years I kept the best target... 7/8" fired on a hot summer afternoon using Rem. Thunderbolts. Maybe I just got lucky. Maybe back about 1981 the Thunderbolt was made to a better standard.

For current ammo to use hunting, etc., give a look for CCI Mini-Mags. Very excellent ammo. Outstanding in my rifles, Marvel .22 Conversion (1911) and my beloved 18-3. Also try Aguila. All of their ammo is excellent. Just consider your end use and buy accordingly. HTH. Sincerely. bruce.

__________________
<><

Obviously there's a wealth of episodic info out there, so I'll just add one to show that weird things happen.

Once I had to dispatch a cat, a medium-sized adult female, that was in agony. The nearest vet was hours away. I shot her between the eyes with a high-velocity .22LR hollowpoint from a rifle, at near contact range.

I had to shoot her again to stop her frantic thrashing and crying. It felt lousy, but at least her suffering was over.

On the other hand, on a number of occasions I saw my late brother kill a squirrel instantaneously by aiming just to crease the highest part of its back. His bullet would cut a little slot about a quarter of an inch deep, tops, and the squirrel would be dead when it left the tree limb.

As for lethality of the .22LR on humans, I'm kind of sorry we got off into that line of discussion; but there are tons of stories of one-shot kills with .22LR and people surviving multiple rounds of .357 Magnum or .45 ACP.

There just isn't an answer. Too many variables and far too many exceptions. Carry what you like, do your part, and hope for the best, outcome, whether your target has two legs, four legs, wings or scales.

Ain't no infallible magic bullets.

__________________
Oh well, what the hell.

I kill many armadillos a year using a suppressed 10/22 and CCI sub sonic ammo. Bullet goes straight thru them.

I shoot them in the middle of their body which gives them enough life to run about 100 feet back into the woods.

Was doing head shots, but got tired of dragging them down to the ditch for the buzzards.



I was using my Savage, but a lot of nights it would be raining and I dont like getting it wet.

I grew up hunting with the 22, head shots are instant.

Remember the old T zone shooting for training? head or spine is a stopper.

My Granddad and Dad and I have dispatched cows and hogs with a 22 LR.

When I worked in an ER a guy came in via ambulance, 22 bullet to forehead. He was dead before he hit the ground.

Like some have mentioned body shots to squirrels and larger animals take a while. I have lost squirrels who made it to the den after being heart shot.

A guy I went to school with loved to fight at bars. He thought he was pretty good but was selective on who he chose to fight.

One night he whipped a soldier who made the mistake of asking the tough guys wife to dance. Going home he saw the soldier in a car talking to his friends, tough guy stopped and tried to pull him out of the car to give him some more whuppin, the guy shot the tough guy one time thru the heart with a Ruger SS 22 LR. Tuff guy took the gun away and beat the GI with it.

Some one said the cops are coming, the tuff guy probably never knew he was shot or hit. He dropped dead just as the LE walked up to him. Took a while.

I sometimes carry an Astra Constable 22 LR, if used it will be close and a head shot.

Medulla Oblangata- It is the light switch in a living creature- when you turn it off all function ceases, it is the oldest part of the brain. Heart/lung are extremely variable ( did you hit major vessels? ), I have seen numerous people walk into the ER after being shot in the "lung" with 22 lr, 25 acp. 32 acp, 38 round nose, 380 acp. A 22 short will kill anything provided placement is correct, just a matter of anatomy/physiology. Be Safe,

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

Resilient little beggars, ain't they?

41 is right, CCI Stingers tend to knock the starch

out of some critters, with a solidly placed shot.

Back when I lived in Pa, I did a lot of groundhog hunting. I call it hunting because I would use a 22 lr pistol/rifle and try for head shots so as not to damage the meat. It decreased their number and decreased risk for cows stepping in holes. Here in Mi, in the u.P. I have never seen a groundhog, but porcupine still work. I will shoot them, clean them, ( they smell ) and my wife likes them ( not as good as groundhog ), but they are eating grass, grain just like deer, & beef. Be Safe,

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

I have shot hundreds of gophers (Richardson ground squirrels) and we always used cci 22 mini-mags to great effect...I would argue that they exppand quite nicely as the usual result was a disemboweled critter deader than a mackeral with high body shots. Head shot would nearly take the whole head off...open sights usually out to 50 or 60 yards and closer. Stingers would've been my 1st choice but they were quite more pricey for a kid, and the mini-mags worked so well I stayed with them. Even from a k22 and a buckmark handgun they were destructive and had plenty of shock to make instant kills with upper body shots which were a cinch. Good luck!

One shot kilłs on cows and hogs for butchering. Dropped right there.

__________________
Riding, Shooting, and Truth

I'm one of those Southern Ohio boys. A Monroe County food stamp is a 22. I have never herd tell of anyone having trouble
killing Squirrel, Rabbit, or even fox with a 22. It is not a deer
rifle, but you can kill about anything with a head shot, if it is
standing still at fairly close range. I would say anyone who
grew up in the sticks will testify to this. Groundhogs require a
head shot. The poachers I knew, were shooting to eat. The
deer they shot were Jack lighted and shot at 20yds or so. They
shot them in the head. To me this is a non problem. Small game
is like any other animal, poor hit is poor hit. The 22 rifle has always been used by coon hunters. If you don't hit a coon in
the head, he's got a lot of fight left in him, but it don't ruin the
pelt.

I definitely agree. When I started hunting hogs and porckiesI just wanted to make the shot, I learned very quickly that both of the above can take a lot of body shots and keep going, you can not eat them if they get into the hole. Head shots are a must. A 22 lr will penetrate most skulls ( not Cape buffalo), but I tested many on harvested deer heads to confirm what I believed, I will not get into the gory details. As for the old wives tale of LEO's worrying about 22 lr, I have heard the tale, but the 22lr performs as a bullet/ caliber of that size and power, no more, no less. Placement is King, anything could kill, it just depends on how long you want to wait. Sooner is better for all involved. Be Safe,

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

I've never heard that before but I love that quote! Maybe the government should start handing out .22 rifles instead of EBT cards.

When you think about it seriously, when I was a kid and hunted
squirrels, rabbits, and Grouse with a shotgun, I had to run down
a lot of wounded critters. Some times would have to shoot twice
to bring down a squirrel. A lot of grouse would have gotten away
if not for the dog, rabbits too. It takes a very poor hit on small
game for the 22 not to do the job. I have shot squirrel with a
K38, it definitely anchors them, but the only option you have is
creamed squirrel on biscuits, with what's left. Of course if you
are Bob Munden and can shoot the head off a squirrel in the top
of a tree in a drizzling rain, then you can have some fried squirrel. Pic the results of a morning with a 77/22- 4x scope
Win HPs.

Attached Images

image.jpg (77.6 KB, 24 views)

For a 38 (or larger) I found a full wadcutter, moving slow, doesn't ruin much meat.

This is true, I use Wadcutters / target loads only in my K38s.
But, you have to get a classic shot in the middle of the back or
head. Any kind of quartering shot, shreds a lot of meat. We usually go to handguns when the leaves fall. Also get out the
25/20 & 32/20 rifles, loaded with cast bullets. They don't do
as much damage as a 22hp. It is fun to use handguns and the
old rifles, just for sport.

I don't have much to say about the OP's Q vis-á-vis hunting critters, but defense-against-humans cropped up, and I thought this might be of interest. As several have stated, shot-placement seems of real concern . . . and we all know this isn't the first choice (especially considering the ignition issues that crop up with .22 LR rimfire cartridges more frequently than with centerfire rounds). DRT defense-against-humans with .22 seems to be a product of shot-placement, same as with other handgun calibers - tho admittedly the shot might need to be more precisely placed to guarantee adequate penetration . . . and you have a small bit less diameter to work with. Probably 40-gr solids are the best bet - and flat-points couldn't hurt.

Here are some facts from a dual killing with a Beretta 21a in .22 LR, as set forth in the New Mexico Supreme Court's opinion in State v. Coffin, 1999-NMSC-038, ¶ 8, 128 N.M. 192, 991 P.2d 477:

Doctor Julia Goodin, the forensic pathologist who performed the autopsies on both Martinezes, testified at trial concerning their gunshot wounds. Chris Martinez, Sr. received two gunshot wounds, one on the left side of the head near the ear, traveling slightly front to back and left to right and lodging at the base of the skull and brain. The second gunshot wound was in the left chest area near the armpit, traveling right to left. Mr. Martinez, Sr. had a blood alcohol level of .269 percent. Chris Martinez, Jr. received four gunshot wounds: one to the left side of the jaw traveling slightly left to right and back to front, exiting through the chin; a second behind the left ear, traveling left to right and back to front, lodging in the base of the skull; a third just below the latter gunshot behind the left ear, with a similar trajectory; and, finally, a fourth in the lower middle of the back, traveling left to right and back to front, hitting the spine. Mr. Martinez, Jr. had a blood alcohol level of .156 percent.

Witnesses reported the Martinez men were behaving aggressively before being shot. Id. at ¶¶ 5, 6. Another witness said both Martinez men dropped to the ground immediately upon being shot. Id. at ¶ 7.

__________________
Now go make God proud...