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Old 08-31-2016, 04:23 PM
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Default Federal HST "Micro"???

Federal has introduced an HST "Micro" round, specifically designed for short barrel handguns. I saw some today for .380($18.27) and 9mm($22.47) in Walmart. I picked up a few boxes.

The weights of each round were what caught my eye...along with what I consider reasonable prices for new product -especially from Federal. The 9mm is 150gr (a new "heaviest" for caliber) and the 380 is 99gr. The few test I've seen in videos say that they are BOTH exceptionally mild in recoil (a good thing), low flash (also good), but while I was hoping to see another inch or so of penetration from the .380 above the normal 90gr rounds...it didn't happen.

I must admit I don't quite know what to expect from these when I shoot them, the .380 especially. Anybody here done any shooting with them? What can you tell us?
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:20 PM
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What size boxes? Those prices sound good for 50 count boxes, but I wouldn't pay that for 20ct boxes when 50 count boxes of their other 9mm weights can be had for $25 or less online
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:36 AM
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I shot a box of the 150gr HST yesterday with my Shield 9 and I was really impressed, the recoil is very mild even compared to the 147gr HST I shot as well.

What impressed me the most was how much my Shield like them as far as accuracy, it's the most accurate I've shot out of my Shield great groups at 7yds and nailing the 10 ring.

I was already sold on HST but did not know for sure what weight or pressure but with my own shooting experience with them and a ballistic test by Lucky Gunner I will link below I'm sold on the 150gr and my short barreled Shield.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...tic-tests/#9mm
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Old 09-01-2016, 02:08 AM
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I can't help you with experience about these new 'micros' as I have never heard of them till now.

At first when I seen you mentioned for short barrels, I thought maybe they came out with revolver loads. Such as 38spl, 357mag. I have been praying for them but to no avail.

I do have experience with there previous ones. I got a small stockpile of the 124gr +P 9mm HSTs and they are the best HPs I have ever tried. I won't into full details because I just did on another HP thread very recently where HSTs were brought up, but they would fully expand pretty much no matter what. I will share this picture again though.

If I ever wanted a good HP for any other semi auto round, it would only be HSTs.

Federal HST "Micro"???-hst_1-jpg

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Old 09-01-2016, 08:59 AM
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Any of this Micro stuff for short barreled revolvers? To compete with Speer's Short Bbl. ammo...
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhc37013 View Post
I shot a box of the 150gr HST yesterday with my Shield 9 and I was really impressed, the recoil is very mild even compared to the 147gr HST I shot as well.

What impressed me the most was how much my Shield like them as far as accuracy, it's the most accurate I've shot out of my Shield great groups at 7yds and nailing the 10 ring.

I was already sold on HST but did not know for sure what weight or pressure but with my own shooting experience with them and a ballistic test by Lucky Gunner I will link below I'm sold on the 150gr and my short barreled Shield.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...tic-tests/#9mm
Thanks for the feedback! I will be shooting a box of the 9mm next week to see what it feels like myself.

Based on your input I think I'm going to buy another box or (2) before it's gone. The standard pressure 147gr HST usually sell for over $30 for a 20 round box in the LGS, so at this price its a bargain. I don't buy ammo online.

With all the Gold Dot, Critical Defense, Critical Duty, Winchester PDX1 and Winchester Ranger T that I have in stock I probably shouldn't be buying ANY 9mm ammo.

Thanks for the link too!
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Old 09-02-2016, 10:25 PM
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I guess my first question is what need is Federal trying to fill, especially with the 9mm. The current 9mm HST is already a magical performer in its non-plus P iteration. And that out of 3 inch barrels.
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ptarmigan View Post
I guess my first question is what need is Federal trying to fill, especially with the 9mm. The current 9mm HST is already a magical performer in its non-plus P iteration. And that out of 3 inch barrels.

Have you got a reference on that short-barrel performance?
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:55 AM
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Federal also introducing the following:


Features

Polymer-encapsulated Syntech bullet prevents metal-on-metal contact in the bore, eliminating copper and lead fouling, while extending barrel life
Exclusive primer formulation provides reliable, consistent ignition
Clean-burning propellants minimize residue and fouling
Significantly reduces the required frequency of cleaning
Absence of a copper jacket minimizes splash-back on steel targets
Less perceived recoil

Federal Premium Ammunition - American Eagle Syntech
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Old 09-03-2016, 09:02 AM
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Have you got a reference on that short-barrel performance?

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Old 09-03-2016, 09:13 AM
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I really don't see the point.

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Old 09-03-2016, 09:22 AM
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I always feel like a naysayer when it comes to ammo, but I feel that these things are way over-analyzed. Can it hurt to have the newest whiz-bang ammo? Probably not. But how much does it help?

I believe that the better-placed shot will perform better. All things being equal, maybe the new Speer neutron-depleted rocket propelled 151-gr JHP ($1/rd) does more tissue damage than the Federal 147-gr Hi-Shok ($.30/rd) from 20 years ago, but what is the ratio, really? Is the new stuff a 98, and the old stuff a 96, given the same placement? (Note: Strictly made-up numbers- no need to tell me that a .45 would then be a 110...)

Not raining on the parade, because ballistics and performance is a really fun subject. It just seems like we play into every marketing scheme that comes down the pike. Like mentioned above, how much better is it than Federal's own HST, which is pretty highly regarded?
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Old 09-03-2016, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson View Post
I always feel like a naysayer when it comes to ammo, but I feel that these things are way over-analyzed. Can it hurt to have the newest whiz-bang ammo? Probably not. But how much does it help?

I believe that the better-placed shot will perform better. All things being equal, maybe the new Speer neutron-depleted rocket propelled 151-gr JHP ($1/rd) does more tissue damage than the Federal 147-gr Hi-Shok ($.30/rd) from 20 years ago, but what is the ratio, really? Is the new stuff a 98, and the old stuff a 96, given the same placement? (Note: Strictly made-up numbers- no need to tell me that a .45 would then be a 110...)

Not raining on the parade, because ballistics and performance is a really fun subject. It just seems like we play into every marketing scheme that comes down the pike. Like mentioned above, how much better is it than Federal's own HST, which is pretty highly regarded?
+1. With regular HSTs available for $0.50 or less, don't see he advantage. Maybe when/if 50ct boxes ever come out for reasonable prices
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:01 PM
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I'm certainly pleased with my Federal HST 9mm 124gr non-+P. Very manageable from a light, short barreled single stack. I very much trust Shooting the Bull's Ammo Quest tests on the HST, and lacking any in depth terminal ballistics performance through actual human bodies, it will have to do. It will take more than a cartridge wearing a new shirt to get me to even consider changing.
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Old 09-03-2016, 09:33 PM
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I will be shooting a box later this week.

If it has the benefit of noticeably less recoil than the 147gr rounds that's good enough for me. video shows that the penetration is virtually the same and expansion marginally different, so I guess that, and reduced muzzle flash are the difference.

Translation: If I liked the other HST I should like this one more.
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Old 09-03-2016, 10:41 PM
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If it has the benefit of noticeably less recoil than the 147gr rounds that's good enough for me.
So if the actual bullet weighs more than your 147gr round, yet with "noticeably" less recoil, I have to think they've reduced the velocity. Have there been any chronied comparisons between the two rounds?
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:55 AM
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So if the actual bullet weighs more than your 147gr round, yet with "noticeably" less recoil, I have to think they've reduced the velocity. Have there been any chronied comparisons between the two rounds?
The TNOUTDOORS9 video shows the velocity comparison which I think showed the 150 slightly slower, but for me that is unimportant since the penetration was in the same range.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:25 AM
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So if the actual bullet weighs more than your 147gr round, yet with "noticeably" less recoil, I have to think they've reduced the velocity. Have there been any chronied comparisons between the two rounds?
This was my question. How can it have less recoil, with a higher bullet weight, and be as effective? The physics aren't jiving...
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:24 AM
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This was my question. How can it have less recoil, with a higher bullet weight, and be as effective? The physics aren't jiving...
They have apparently tweaked the Micro bullet slightly so that it controls the expansion early on so it is allowed to penetrate slightly farther before becoming totally upset. That lets them get more penetration from a slower projectile. I watched TNOutdoor's test a couple times but with everything shot into a single block we never really got a look at the various gel cavities to see where things started.

He did say in his video that it might be hard for Federal to sway users of the current HST ammo to switch to the new round, particularly since they say they will not be phasing out the HST 147gr.

As I posted yesterday, I for one am happy with my current HSTs and the new Micro seems very similar. It looks like a good round for folks that want to try it for their own personal reasons, especially if the price comes down. I suspect that Federal feels they can both pull in new customers and convince some folks to switch with the tag line that it is "made for short barreled guns". However, while never advertised as such, the regular HST performs wonderfully out of short barrels.

So, I guess it's "You say tomato and I say tuh-mot-toe"
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:53 AM
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The real question is which round is best for bear when shooting a 3953.

More seriously, I plan to run some tests of 115 vs 124 vs 147 through a couple of my 3913s to see which, if any, hit closest to point of aim.

Right now I'm carrying 124gr JHP, but might change if one of the other loadings is better.

I think that in truth, any of the major brands of self defense ammo perform adequately for self defense.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:15 PM
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I use 124 HST +P in a 3" CZ now, and am very satisfied with it.
However, I think I will keep tabs on the 150 gr. loading for further testing and street use.
I prefer heavy for caliber bullets.
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
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I think that in truth, any of the major brands of self defense ammo perform adequately for self defense.
That is probably so, Gary. However, they did raise the bar when they came out with the HST line. All the penetration videos I could ever find showed the 9mm version opening completely whether shot through a tee shirt or the standard four layers of heavy duty denim. I have been watching the development of handgun hollowpoints for a long time, and even the gold standard rounds like gold dots would sometimes get tripped up once fabric clogged the cavity. It seems like the HST doesn't get bothered by it.
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Old 09-04-2016, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
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The real question is which round is best for bear when shooting a 3953.

More seriously, I plan to run some tests of 115 vs 124 vs 147 through a couple of my 3913s to see which, if any, hit closest to point of aim.

Right now I'm carrying 124gr JHP, but might change if one of the other loadings is better.

I think that in truth, any of the major brands of self defense ammo perform adequately for self defense.
Gary, FWIW, I've found that 147 hits closest to POA with both my 3913 and 3914. I have to cover what I want to hit with the front sight, and that's where the hole goes. 115 hits alot lower.
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Old 09-04-2016, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
Federal has introduced an HST "Micro" round, specifically designed for short barrel handguns. I saw some today for .380($18.27) and 9mm($22.47) in Walmart. I picked up a few boxes.

The weights of each round were what caught my eye...along with what I consider reasonable prices for new product -especially from Federal. The 9mm is 150gr (a new "heaviest" for caliber) and the 380 is 99gr. The few test I've seen in videos say that they are BOTH exceptionally mild in recoil (a good thing), low flash (also good), but while I was hoping to see another inch or so of penetration from the .380 above the normal 90gr rounds...it didn't happen.

I must admit I don't quite know what to expect from these when I shoot them, the .380 especially. Anybody here done any shooting with them? What can you tell us?
Watch shootingthebull410 on youtube. this is a definitive series on Personal defense ammo. To sum up, it did better than hydroshocks in short barreled pistols but not as well as Federal HST LE versions. Speer gold dot 124gr +P also did better as did Corbon +P. there are over 30 types which have been looked at in 9mm as well as .380. enjoy!
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Old 10-09-2016, 05:16 PM
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I just tried some in my shield.Its a nice shooting load.Lucky Gunner Labs just did a jell test with it to.It performed real well
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Old 10-09-2016, 05:35 PM
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I just tried some in my shield.Its a nice shooting load.Lucky Gunner Labs just did a jell test with it to.It performed real well
All five rounds expanded @ ~ 900 fps from ~3.5" pistol. Penetration results in those tests are essentially meaningless.
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Old 10-09-2016, 07:01 PM
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Well at least we can compare all there meaningless results for each ammo.To each other !
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Old 10-09-2016, 07:15 PM
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Well at least we can compare all there meaningless results for each ammo.To each other !
Sure compare all you wish, but don't expect to draw any meaningful conclusions regarding penetration!
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Old 10-25-2016, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson View Post
I always feel like a naysayer when it comes to ammo, but I feel that these things are way over-analyzed. Can it hurt to have the newest whiz-bang ammo? Probably not. But how much does it help?

I believe that the better-placed shot will perform better. All things being equal, maybe the new Speer neutron-depleted rocket propelled 151-gr JHP ($1/rd) does more tissue damage than the Federal 147-gr Hi-Shok ($.30/rd) from 20 years ago, but what is the ratio, really? Is the new stuff a 98, and the old stuff a 96, given the same placement? (Note: Strictly made-up numbers- no need to tell me that a .45 would then be a 110...)

Not raining on the parade, because ballistics and performance is a really fun subject. It just seems like we play into every marketing scheme that comes down the pike. Like mentioned above, how much better is it than Federal's own HST, which is pretty highly regarded?
Everyone I've heard from that has tried the new round say's it has noticeably milder recoil than the standard HST 147gr. The video above also shows greater expansion AND penetration in gel test. Federal says that additionally, it has less muzzle flash.

The reduced felt recoil alone was enough for me to take a look at it, and considering the lower price (at least for now) than standard Federal HST 147gr...it's really a no brainer.
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Old 12-14-2016, 04:50 PM
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If it has noticeably less recoil then I'll buy my wife a box to try since she don't like the felt recoil of the 147gr HST I use.

If she likes the 150gr HST micro she can call me a weenie for useing a lighter grain round...
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Old 12-18-2016, 02:26 AM
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As ammo for the 9mm has improved over the years I have
moved from the 115gr +P+, then to the 125gr +P and now
I selected the 147gr HST for my SD loading in my C9 3.5".

If they finally get it over with and get a 158gr JHP so we can have fun
matching it with the 38 Special, we can all sit back and relax.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:23 AM
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Never forget that by far the #1 motivation behind the introduction of any new gun or load is --- SALES.
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Old 12-18-2016, 02:13 PM
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Federal HST "Micro"??? Federal HST "Micro"??? Federal HST "Micro"??? Federal HST "Micro"??? Federal HST "Micro"???  
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Sales is a good thing.............

but I will pass on a bullet just 3.0 grs heavier at a higher price.

PS;
I have also noticed lately
that the bullet seating and the cuts on the bullet tips do not match.
Notches are short, some mostly long, which I think is correct.
Is Federal HST quality control slipping ?

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 12-18-2016 at 02:17 PM.
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  #34  
Old 12-26-2016, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
Federal has introduced an HST "Micro" round, specifically designed for short barrel handguns. I saw some today for .380($18.27) and 9mm($22.47) in Walmart. I picked up a few boxes.

The weights of each round were what caught my eye...along with what I consider reasonable prices for new product -especially from Federal. The 9mm is 150gr (a new "heaviest" for caliber) and the 380 is 99gr. The few test I've seen in videos say that they are BOTH exceptionally mild in recoil (a good thing), low flash (also good), but while I was hoping to see another inch or so of penetration from the .380 above the normal 90gr rounds...it didn't happen.

I must admit I don't quite know what to expect from these when I shoot them, the .380 especially. Anybody here done any shooting with them? What can you tell us?
I just purchased a box of Hydro shock 90gr no P+ for my .380's and fired off my old SD rounds and I like the accuracy and noticed the difference between HST and Hornady as in less muzzle lift .I USE A 10 X 15 box stuffed with an old wool coat and had no problem with penetration
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  #35  
Old 02-28-2017, 06:36 PM
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I use the original 90 grain hydrashoks in my bodyguard 380. I am not jumping on the 99 grain HST bandwagon just yet. testing so far show that the HST in 380 is NOT as good as the original. kinda sad! c'mon federal, need to load them up for some more power.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:19 PM
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I been using the micro 150gr. In my kahr MK9. It's accuracy is phenomenal and recoil is lot less than the lighter bullet loading. Best stuff there is on market now and worth every penny.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmike7189 View Post
I use the original 90 grain hydrashoks in my bodyguard 380. I am not jumping on the 99 grain HST bandwagon just yet. testing so far show that the HST in 380 is NOT as good as the original. kinda sad! c'mon federal, need to load them up for some more power.
How about 99 grains at 1030 fps? That's what the LE version is rated for. I recently bought two 50 round boxes, but haven't tried them yet.
Federal Premium Law Enforcement 380 ACP 99 Grain HST JHP - 50 Rounds
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
Federal has introduced an HST "Micro" round, specifically designed for short barrel handguns. I saw some today for .380($18.27) and 9mm($22.47) in Walmart. I picked up a few boxes.

The weights of each round were what caught my eye...along with what I consider reasonable prices for new product -especially from Federal. The 9mm is 150gr (a new "heaviest" for caliber) and the 380 is 99gr.
Freedom Munitions has a 165 grain 9mm Parabellum/Luger round FWIW. HUSH 9mm Luger 165 gr RN New - Subsonic Ammo | Freedom Munitions
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Old 03-01-2017, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Brown View Post
How about 99 grains at 1030 fps? That's what the LE version is rated for. I recently bought two 50 round boxes, but haven't tried them yet.
Federal Premium Law Enforcement 380 ACP 99 Grain HST JHP - 50 Rounds
I dont think you will ever get velocity like that out of them in a Bodyguard. You'd need a longer barrel.
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Old 09-22-2017, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
Any of this Micro stuff for short barreled revolvers? To compete with Speer's Short Bbl. ammo...
Ironic since Speer and Federal are owned by the same people....
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