Just got my voting guide and was reading about the proposition on the ballot regarding ammo...here in Glorious CA....requiring background checks and no internet purchases for ammunition. I've been a customer of many websites to purchase ammo, and found that most dealers that also sell guns won't ship guns to our state due to our onerous and confusing laws...I was wondering if, goodness forbid, this proposition passes and immediately, prior to the enacting of said law in January 2017, ammo dealers will cut us off, just like that. Opinions? Am I being a bit too paranoid, or just the right amount?

I've never been to your state. One of my sons lived in L.A. for a while, and the other has visited there many times...I take their word for it that California is beautiful.

Having said that, just from what I read on this Forum alone, I know I could never live there! All those goofy gun laws, which do nothing to stop crime, of course, passed by people who are convinced that the gubmint is the solution to all of society's ills.

If I were you, Ron, I would buy all the ammo I could afford to buy right now. No reputable dealer will risk breaking the law, and I would expect that immediately after this measure passes a number of online sellers will stop shipping to the Left Coast.

Thanks, by the way, for alerting us Marylanders to your situation. There are a large number of anti-gun legislators in our General Assembly, and every time some new gun restriction takes effect in your state, it pops up as a proposed law here. We'll be on the lookout for it when the GA opens for business in Annapolis in January...

Good luck to you...

it's going to get worse and worse for gun owners. Every little piece of legislation that they can squeeze until they gain more of a foothold is their game. And will they stop with 'sensible gun laws'? No, they'll keep pushing until I'll be a criminal for owning guns.


That's one reason I don't like the term 'sensible gun laws' because besides not doing any good it opens the door for more 'compromise'. I've NEVER been so polarized on an issue in my entire life.

To me, sensible gun laws will actually take guns out of the hands of the thugs, criminals and terrorists without taking away my right to own guns and not hurt anybody.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Well I live in The so-called Golden State and if this passes...
I would be stocking up until effective date, if I were you.

The majority of our state is pro gun. But I fear the FEDERAL MANDATE that renders the majority powerless.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Man, look at the handwriting on the wall. A combination of factors the last several years have enabled the gun control nuts to gain supporters like wildfire.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Just a matter of time before more and more nonsense gets passed. Been stocking up on magazines and AR's when I have the extra cash. $550 for the new M&P Sport II, you can't go wrong.

I'm actually amazed that your anti-2A moonbat state hasn't already cut off on-line ammo purchases. While there is nothing specifically illegal about them here in MA, our long series of anti-2A tyrant AGs effectively choked off on-line ammo sales long ago for us by threatening the big vendors with costly lawsuits and obtaining consent orders. We are fortunate that we are a small state and can still buy bulk ammo fairly cheaply (by current standards) in nearby NH and at our gun shows. We have other options as well.

But in answer to your specific question... Yes, the dealers will cut you off, just like that.

I would stock up as well as I possibly could before November. The current threats to 2A are not just at the state level.

You live in California, there is no such thing as being too paranoid!

I am trying to liquidate my gun "accumulation". I have a 1943 Colt auto for my nephew as a bequeath. We HAVE to ship through a dealer here in WA. NONE in town will ship to Cali. UPS won't ship an antique 1873 Winnie I'm leaving to a high school friend (supposedly antiques are exempt under WA law=AG won't give me an opinion letter to give to UPS).

For the life of me, I can't understand why my bro retired in Cali! He could have bought a house here in the Cascades and had money left over. And he wouldn't have to go out of state to hunt elk and deer!

For every situation where I worry I'm being too paranoid, there turns out to be two where I wasn't paranoid enough.

See, they are using every angle. Eventually, if it's not downright illegal to own guns they will make it so difficult to own and operate them that a lot of people will just throw up their hands and quit.

I heard a couple of, well, you know, discussing eliminating primers to stop the business cold.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I'm not AFRAID paranoid. I'm MAD paranoid.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

If cost is a real issue, look into an affordable single stage press in your most-used caliber. If they're successful with loaded ammo, they'll go after components, but not for a while.

The reloading "loophole"?

They have been waging war on shooting ranges for a long time. It is hard to stoke interest in shooting when there is no place to shoot.

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Common sense isn't so common.

Some of my friends have asked if it would be okay to have ammunition shipped to me in Nevada. They will come by a couple times a year to pick up what they ordered. Will the agriculture inspection station on Hwy 80, West of Reno, also become an ammunition interdiction station?

Stock up NOW! Don't worry about being paranoid.
After all, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they are NOT out to get you!

Scene with a Dillon 550 and a reporter:

THIS is a 'reloading machine'

Notice that every time I pull the handle, A COMPLETE 'BULLET' comes out!!!!!!!

"You can buy these at gunstores, or order them online. Without ANY ID or background check!"

"You can make ammo for "ANY GUN MADE"

"And the parts are easily obtainable, still without an ID or background check."

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Have no doubts whatsoever that reloading components are. or WILL be, on the anti-gun agenda, right along with ammunition. My fearless prediction is there will be a massive push in many states (and probably also at the Federal level) for confiscatory taxation on purchases of reloading components and possibly even tools, in the guise of an Anti-Gun Violence tool.

You had better stock on bullets and projectiles also. This is a copy and paste from the text of prop 63. " As used in subdivision (a) of Section 30305 and in Section 30306, "ammunition" includes,
but is not limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile
capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not
include blanks. "

I would suspect that they will cut you off early, if not immediately.

Why?

If something gets back-ordered, or delayed in shipment, so that it actually arrives to you on or after the date that such a proposal went into effect, there would be the potential that the shipper, not just the receiver, may somehow be held liable. You would have to get a proper opinion of the law from the state Attorney General, but if I were shipping on-line, I would not risk it, nor want to be buying stock to fill orders I might not be able to deliver.

Sounds like you have reason to appear paranoid. You're not paranoid if they actually are out to get you..

I don't live in Calif, but am seeing ammo getting scarcer and even more expensive with each new scandal. Price increases of $30 / 1000 rounds over the last few months on some of my favorites seem to be the rule.

Check out, California Dept of Justice, Bureau of Firearms, BOF fourm 4544A, Report of Operation of Law or Inrafamilia Firearms Transfer. He could get the colt registered to himself before it ever leaves Washington. Make him come visit you. Drive or fly it back.

Luckily I'm in a gun-friendly state, but I'm definitely considering a few pre-emptive purchases now, before November comes along, just in case things get less friendly.

Restricting internet purchases of ammo would be a shame in many ways. I know a lot of folks like to buy bulk purchases of pistol ammo at slightly lower prices than you'd find at a local store, and I'm guilty of that too.

But the true benefit I find, is in less "politically scary" guns. My son loves to shoot our rifles. We have a Winchester 94 in 30-30, an Argentine Mauser in 7.65 x 53, a VZ 24 (Czech) mauser in 8mm Mauser, and a Mosin Nagant in 7.62 x 54R. These are great old guns, plenty of wood and steel, a relatively low rate of fire, and not very high capacity. And to shoot them I can roll over to Walmart... just for the 30-30. The rest, not so much. Nothing local, except one shop that carries stuff at $30 a box and up. Even the Mosin ammo is getting pricey.
But online, I can still find some surplus, and several places carry PPU at relatively good prices (about the same as walmart prices for 30-30).
Note, these are bolt actions with historical significance, not semiauto assault rifles.

If I lose online access, my 9mm options are a bit more limited, and a little more expensive. My old bolt actions will become wall hangers, unless/until I start to reload.

I read the proposed initiative, and I don't see anything that would prevent mail order firms based in CA from selling to CA residents. You would have get your order shipped to a LGS and pick it up there.

California is a big state. Larger than many countries, and a huge market.

This will probably happen.

I'm afraid the case in CA is, "Heads They Win/Tails You Lose". Research and study, California Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom’s “Safety for All” voter proposition. Listed as Prop. 63 on the ballot before you vote!
I would say, You have reason to appear paranoid.

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It's The Carbonaro Effect!

Glad I live in Az.

You just made me vomit. In Maine we keep hearing about the "loophole" where we don't have a law requiring background checks for private gun sales. We haven't needed one for 200+ years and we don't have any problems universal background checks would solve. But that doesn't stop the gun grabbers.

Like the poster above, I've never been so polarized on an issue in my life. These guys have had 50 years of "compromise" and they just keep inching further and further. Enough is enough.

Looks to me like they're trying to back door reloading supplies. "Bullet" separate from "cartridge" makes me very suspicious.

This was the exact moment I stopped watching ABC World News. After the school shooting Diane Sawyer said "Every time you pull the trigger a bullet comes out." I almost lost it. Have not watched Lame Stream since.

Come to Arizona and stock up. Ammo, powder, primers, other reloading supplies. All you need is pictures of dead presidents. Buy as much as you want. Drive back home.

And don't forget the phrase "includes but not limited to..."

Of course reloading supplies will be included.

Right, but according to this law, that would be a felony.

Buying in AZ isn't illegal, but importing it back to CA is.

I'm lucky to have a second home is Phoenix, so that is my bolt hole if CA gets too bad. (I grew up in Phoenix)

I also have 100 relatives of my wife, two sons, and 5 grand kids in CA so, for now, moving isn't on the table.

Shooting is an important hobby to me, but it's not my whole life.

Plus, I'm lucky enough to have a CA concealed carry license, and if I move to AZ, I'd have to give it up. So from a CCW point of view, I'm better off living in CA.

You can ship the antique through USPS. You have to tell me how the State will know what you ship in a package.

This is why gun control laws work. No matter how stupid, no matter how unenforceable, most law abiding gun owners will bend over backwards to obey.

Out of this whole thread, not one person mentioned what the OP should do when it comes time to vote.

The OP should vote NO to the proposition and try to raise as much awareness and support against it as he can.

If all you do is sit back and complain, of course it will pass. You have to do your part in order to try and shut it down. You may be outnumbered, but you still have to try. Resort to social media, hang signs in your yard, attend meetings with like minded individuals and see if there are any movements you can start, etc.

I have been trying to raise all kinds of awareness here in PA about the criminal running for office. The SC justice the president gets to pick is going to be huge. Not to mention all the precedence Ubama made with his pen signature. Much more of that will follow if everyone chooses blue. She has already been confirmed on wanting total gun elimination. The next 4 years are going to be worst than Bush.

calguns is a CA gun owners organization and they are working hard to raise awareness of these bills.

calguns.net is a forum they run for California gun owners (all are welcome) that has more members than this one.

So they are an active lobbying group.

New York State also suffered knee-jerk legislation following the Sandy-Hook CT. Massacre. We too are unable to buy ammo out of state unless shipped through an FFL. All gun transfers, even between close relatives, must also go through an FFL.

I did hear that the state is softening its position somewhat but I haven't yet checked. Perhaps there's hope for CA.

Don't panic. It is in many ways not quite as bad as you fear, though in some ways it's worse...

The governor of CA already signed into law a raft of restrictive measures an few months ago, this measure will alter the effect of those measures.
Just to sum up a few points of the *existing* law:
The ammunition restriction doesn't start right away, with stages coming in at the start of 2018 but doesn't take full effect until the middle of that year. Prop 63 will accelerate this process by having the whole thing in place by the beginning of 2018.
It will be illegal to bring more than 50 rounds of ammunition across the border without proper paperwork. You can still sell ammunition to a friend, same 50 round limit.
As to reloading components, I understand why people are confused, section 16150 has two definitions of ammunition. One is only a loaded round and the other is anything that even resembles gun-type stuff. Only the first is subject to the background check, the second is a prohibition on selling anything gun-related to anyone you know-or suspect to be shady. It's pretty slippery-slope but it shouldn't stop reloading components from being mail-order.
I myself think people are glossing over a few of the more disturbing parts of the law. I do wish people would read laws before commenting on what may or may not come to pass so here you go:
California Proposition 63 The Safety for All Act of 2016 - The Voter's Self Defense System - Vote Smart
or the PDF
http://smartgunlaws.org/wp-content/u...llActFinal.pdf

I read through the proposition, and I have to politely disagree with any summation that it's no big deal. We have judges in this state that will declare otherwise, they have overturned overwhelmingly approved propositions before, and interpreted others well beyond their intent. And what a coincidence that the most onerous parts of the intended law will take place right after our next gubernatorial election, where Gavin "Nuisance", a sponsor and supporter of the latest impingement on our 2nd amendment rights is predicted to be the front runner of that contest.

Like it or not, at some point, sooner for some... later for others, most of us are going to have to ask ourselves the question: At what point is too far too far?

The natural inclination of honest American gunowners is to obey the gun laws no matter how silly, absurd, dangerous or even unconstitutional they may be. As you say, we bend over backwards to do so... and the grabbers know that and take full advantage of that to hurt us as much as they can with no adverse consequences. CT and NY showed that there is a point beyond which some people can't be pushed... and the grabbers were shocked and didn't know what to do about it.

Here in MA, the AG unilaterally changed existing gun law to make untold thousands of us into instant, retroactive "Felons-in-Waiting"! How do you think that went down? You obey the law to the very last letter for decades... and still you end up a Felon in the eyes of a rabidly anti-2A AG.

What is one supposed to do in a situation like that? Damned if you do and damned if you don't. The grabbers love it.

They've already tried & they'll be back. Reloaders are no longer under their radar. Look for a hefty "public safety tax" on bullets and exorbitant fees & restrictions on "explosive items" like powder & primers.

Los Angeles outlawed standard capacity magazines last year. Not sure if it's true but supposedly zero people have shown up to turn in their magazines to the proper authorities.

Next year the mags will be illegal statewide. We shall see...

This part of the "safety act" really made me look twice..."Prohibits persons convicted of stealing a firearm from possessing firearms."

Gee, a gun thief convicted under the new restrictions won't be able to possess a gun legally...like he already has done and was convicted for. That will make him think twice before he steals again! Right now polling has this measure passing 60-40. People in this state are either stupid, lazy, complacent, or too much into feeling good about themselves to consider consequences down the road, that only affect "the other guy." Pardon me, have to go order some more ammo on-line.

If the early returns from places like Ohio and Florida go against us I'll bulk up the inventory even though I'm picking stuff up now when I find it.

That sounds a little like waiting until your house is on fire to run out and buy a fire extinguisher. At this point in history, having a 90 day supply of food, medicine and ammo on hand is just common sense. To me.