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  #1  
Old 10-23-2016, 03:38 PM
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Default Underwood Ammo 115 +P+ 9MM

I was given a box of this to shoot by a friend at a local gun shop.

In my Glock 19 the recoil was very manageable. The powder burned clean and I didn't notice much muzzle flash.

Out of my Glock 43 however the recoil was harsh making follow up shots difficult.

The ammo is rated at 1400 FPS and 500 Ft pounds at the muzzle. It was extremely accurate. It is also reasonably priced.

Don't know if I will buy any to replace the Federal HST that I now carry but it's nice to know that quality ammo can also be had from smaller companies too.
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Old 10-23-2016, 03:45 PM
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In my opinion, +P+ ammo pushes the durability of a handgun to its limit, especially with steady use. This could be one of the factors requiring police departments to adopt new handgun systems rather frequently.
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Old 10-23-2016, 03:51 PM
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Agreed. A heavier recoil spring could make up the difference. This load closely rivals both 357 Mag and 357 Sig.

At $20 a box it's tempting but it's not something I really need.
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Old 10-23-2016, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federali View Post
In my opinion, +P+ ammo pushes the durability of a handgun to its limit, especially with steady use. This could be one of the factors requiring police departments to adopt new handgun systems rather frequently.
I don't think most, if any, use +p+ ammo. And aside from qualifications I don't think they shoot that much. I'm sure some do but the majority don't do that much shooting.

Changing handguns could be anything. Better deals, different ammo, prejudice...if any, perceived problems....

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Old 10-23-2016, 04:26 PM
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That's why I went with .357Sig. >500 pounds energy and it isn't destroying the gun to do it.
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Old 10-23-2016, 04:47 PM
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I wouldn't trust 115 grain bullets at that speed. There have been a number of cases of these smaller bullets fragmenting due to high acceleration/velocity. I would choose 124 grain bullets...preferably bonded hollow points or FMJ...for shooting at +P+ pressures.
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Old 10-23-2016, 04:50 PM
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Default After speaking with the guys at underwood

I learned that their +p+ is right at 40000 psi. That's 5000 psi higher than standard 9x19 and puts it squarely next to 357 sig as far as pressure is concerned. Unfortunately, performance isn't equal and personally I don't see the need to hot rod a 9mm when they make a cartridge that was designed to run those pressures. The occasional round might not show any increased wear that you can see, but it's happening. Why not just get a 357 SIG for that power level? On a side note, I've dealt with Underwood many times and I've got no complaints. They are a great company.
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Old 10-23-2016, 09:05 PM
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Have been running Underwood for many years. That said I would not run the +P+ 9mm loads in any of my pistols. I do however have several boxes of the Underwood +P 115 grain 9mm on hand.
For my money Underwood is the ONLY 10mm round I will carry for defense. Hot consistent clean burning and at a much lower price point that anything else at the velocities. I have fired several thousand rounds of the stuff in several calibers without one single issue of any kind.
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Old 10-23-2016, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
I don't think most, if any, use +p+ ammo. And aside from qualifications I don't think they shoot that much. I'm sure some do but the majority don't do that much shooting.
My dept worked with Federal and then W-W to develop the 115 +P+ rd. They were our issued rd for quite a few years in our 459/469/5904/6904. I investigated a good number of shootings where those rds were used. They performed very well. No complaints at all.
It was a very common issued rd for the 9mm by a lot of LEAs.
The +P+ was our practice, qualification, and duty rd. We didn't use reduced loads for any shooting.
As far as much shooting here's a story I've related on this forum before.
When we were carrying W-W 115 +P+ and went to the 5904 a few people said our 5904s wouldn't stand up to the constant use of that rd. One of our range officers (full time position) at our main HQ/Academy range decided he'd document how many of the +P+ rds he ran thru his 5904 before it became unserviceable. His was a randomly issued 5904. Nothing special, same as everyone else was issued. At 50,000 rds he replaced the barrel as the rifling was getting shot out. He retired after documenting 80,000 rds thru the same gun. He replaced the springs a few times but I don't recall how often or how many times but it was same as any of our other issued guns would get. When he retired he bought this 5904 and continued shooting it.
This is not to say that every 5904 will go 80,000+ rds. The next one issued may have gone way fewer, or it may go a whole lot more. No way to tell. But we do know that one standard random off the rack 5904 ate 80,000 rds of +P+ with no problems.
If you want to put 80,000 rds in perspective if you bought 50 rd boxes that would be 1600 boxes. If you pay $25 a box for that ammo then it would cost a person $40,000 to shoot that much of that ammo thru their gun.
Truthfully, is the average Joe going to shoot that much? Most likely if a gun gets 1000 rds thru it some people think they're shooting a lot. And anyone who has been on this forum very long has seen the posts from the guy who buys their first gun, shoots 100 rds thru it and thinks they're a master level shooter.
When we were issuing the 5904 each of our Baby Troops fired a minimum of 3500 rds of +P+ before they graduated. Every year every sworn fired a minimum of 450 rds for practice/training/qual.
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
This load closely rivals both 357 Mag and 357 Sig.
ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ The 357 Magnum throws a bullet a whole 10 grains heavier another 50 feet per second faster. They are no where close, and they are not rivals by any standard or means. On paper, 9mm +P+ approaches 500 ft lbs., and there are loads for the magnum that can exceed 600 ft lbs. Go ahead and talk about the maxed out capability of the cartridge, but this comparison is unjust and indefensible.

Ditto on the bullet weight, you will get better terminal performance out of a heavier bullet in any pressure range. The lighter bullets make far less use of the available energy and have poorer potential, poorer penetration, can over expand, and is at higher risk of fragmentation.
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Old 10-23-2016, 11:21 PM
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ISPCAPT:

Thank-you for posting that; it was very informative. The Federal 115 grain +P+ (9BPLE) is one of the issue loads for our officers using the 9 m/m. I carry that in my second generation Glock 19. I find it very easy to control when compared to the standard pressure Federal 115 grain JHP (9BP).

It's good to know that your agency was satisfied with it.

Joe
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Old 10-24-2016, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckford View Post
ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ The 357 Magnum throws a bullet a whole 10 grains heavier another 50 feet per second faster. They are no where close, and they are not rivals by any standard or means. On paper, 9mm +P+ approaches 500 ft lbs., and there are loads for the magnum that can exceed 600 ft lbs. Go ahead and talk about the maxed out capability of the cartridge, but this comparison is unjust and indefensible.

Ditto on the bullet weight, you will get better terminal performance out of a heavier bullet in any pressure range. The lighter bullets make far less use of the available energy and have poorer potential, poorer penetration, can over expand, and is at higher risk of fragmentation.
Show me some facts on how 10 grains and 50 fps perform significantly better. I'd like to see that.
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Old 10-24-2016, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just plain joe View Post
ISPCAPT:

Thank-you for posting that; it was very informative. The Federal 115 grain +P+ (9BPLE) is one of the issue loads for our officers using the 9 m/m. I carry that in my second generation Glock 19. I find it very easy to control when compared to the standard pressure Federal 115 grain JHP (9BP).

It's good to know that your agency was satisfied with it.

Joe
The BPLE worked very well for us. It was our issued rd for several years then we went with W-W +P+ which did equally as well. The jello reports and those who believe those claim it's impossible for the BPLE and the W-W +P+ to work as well as it did. Jello shooting didn't penetrate enough and bullets came apart. However use in the field is the only place where it really and they both did the job and did it well. One of the leading "experts" once sent me an email claiming that our street performance were just anecdotal stories and all the scientific jello testing he had done proves the BPLE and W-W +P+ are poor performers. The poor guy had real life backwards but he's made a living sounding off about jello performance and disregarding what actually works. That often happens when people only have lab experience but no true real life. They claim themselves as 'experts' and others equally uninformed follow them like lemmings.
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Old 10-24-2016, 12:37 PM
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Underwood is know for its top fps in its loading............

it can also carry the Gold Dot bullet in some loadings.

A heavier weapon is nice to have with this ammo, as with
Double Tap ammo.
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:00 AM
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I will take Plus P Plus any day. My agency issued the Federal 124 Plus P Plus Hydroshok and while I didn't fire 80,000 rounds our weapons stood up just fine and the round was very effective. If you don't care to use it then don't. If you want that extra punch from the round I highly recommend it.
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