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Old 10-29-2016, 03:18 PM
KateB76 KateB76 is offline
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Default Defensive Ammo for .38 special/357 magnum

I am looking for recommendations for defensive ammunition for a S&W model 13-1 with a 4" barrel. The gun is very heavy so it will be kept primarily for home defense.

I have not been able to find many ratings for revolver ammunition, and no ballistics tests. Can anyone make some recommendations for defensive ammo for this gun? And is .38 special good enough, or should we look for 357 magnum?

Thanks.
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Old 10-29-2016, 03:29 PM
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I don't load .357 Magnum ammo in my HD revolver because in a small enclosed dark room that ammo will act like a flash bang. A good .38 Special round is just fine.

Any of the name brand SD ammo available today will do the job it was designed to do. Look for accuracy first since the best ammo in the world will do you no good unless you hit what you shoot at.

I prefer 135gr Speer GDHP ammo in my revolvers or the FBI Load depending on which revolver I'm shoiting.
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Old 10-29-2016, 03:50 PM
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I suggest you look at .38 spl. standard pressure, low flash, 150-Gr.
hard cast wadcutter by Buffalo Bore. Part #20D. Don't believe you
need .357 or even +P .38 inside the home, and you sure don't want
to be blinded or deafened by the flash and bang.
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Old 10-30-2016, 09:05 AM
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Thank you for the replies! We are new to guns, and this is our first revolver. So far we have shot it with .38 special fmj at the range. Based on what I have read I suspected that .357 magnum would be too much for indoor use, but I wanted advice from some more experienced shooters.

Local stores don't have much selection in .38 special. Are Hornady Critical Defense and Remington HTP hollow points good choices? I will also look into on-line sources for some of your specific recommendations.

Thanks again!
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Old 10-30-2016, 09:23 AM
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I carry a model 640 2" stainless steel
.357 magnum with Hormany Critical Defense 125 gr.hollow point and practice with it since if you load the gun with the ammo you are depending your life on then you better know what it will do. Critical Defense has a low flash and less recoil than other .357 loads. It will go through 4 layers of heavy demin and still create a 14" wound channel in a block of paraffin wax. For balistic charts on ammo just Google .38 special or .357 magnum balistic charts.

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Old 10-30-2016, 09:26 AM
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Try sgammo.com
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Old 10-30-2016, 10:18 AM
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I have a 13-2 (4") used for HD. My ammo of choice is the Federal Hydra-Shock, 129 grain, .38 +P JHP. Very manageable recoil in good defensive round. That being said, it is my second choice behind 45acp in a Sig P220.

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Old 10-30-2016, 11:18 AM
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I carry a 642 loaded with 158gr +P LSWCHP. My home guns are all 9mm with a JHP of some sort, depending on the pistol's preference.

I shot a cylinder full of 125gr .357 Magnums once at the range as it approached full dark. The concussion could be felt and the strobe effect was like being in a early '70's disco.
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Old 10-30-2016, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KateB76 View Post
Local stores don't have much selection in .38 special. Are Hornady Critical Defense and Remington HTP hollow points good choices? I will also look into on-line sources for some of your specific recommendations.

Thanks again!
Hornady Critical Defense ammo is fine and so is the Remington ammo you mentioned but I'm a fan of Speer Gold Dot HP ammo. Federal HST is also a very good choice which uses a modern bullet. Like I said above, be sure the ammo you choose is accurate in your revolver before all else.
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Old 10-30-2016, 11:39 AM
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Magnum loads are fun at the range and great for hunting, but as others have already mentioned are overkill for self defense. Most people prefer standard .38 Special in a jacketed hollow point. My preference is a .38 Special in a Keith-type semi-wadcutter. I have had to put down several horses in my time, and have seen how quick a 158gr LSWC to the noggin will humanely put down livestock. That is proof enough for me.
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Old 10-30-2016, 12:31 PM
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You do not need 357 ammo with a 4" revolver.

38 Special standard ammo will work with quality bullets which
will need to tested to see which you prefer.
Going up to +P ammo will add energy but also flash and recoil.

Lots of practice is the secret ...............
Having to not have to shoot, is even better.
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Old 10-30-2016, 12:37 PM
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I prefer a soft 158gr LSWCHP at 850 fps. The standard target load of the lead 148gr hollow base wad cutter is also surprisingly effective. Some folks load that one backwards with the hollow base to the front at 850 fps for some rather good performance also.
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Old 10-30-2016, 01:26 PM
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I had to use my service revolver during my LEO career and it was loaded w/the old .38 FBI 158 grain +P hollow point. It just works and while somewhat hard to find I believe Buffalo Bore carries it.
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Old 10-30-2016, 01:57 PM
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I am a big fan of the Winchester 145gr Silvertip in .357 magnum. I know its kind of old school but I like it.
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Old 10-30-2016, 02:21 PM
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If the need ever arises where the situation calls for you firing the weapon it will probably be between 3 and 7 yards(probably closer) from the target and over in a few seconds.

To get the 1st place trophy you will need to put the largest number of rounds on target in the shortest amount of time so I recommend 148gr HPWC ammo in a 38/357 revolver.

I'm a revolver guy starting back in 1966 when I got my 10-6 issued.Before that it was only 1911A1 shooting in the USMC.

These days I prefer more rounds than my revolvers hold and because of the likelihood of multiple targets I have an S&W Model 59 with 15rds as my nightstand weapon of choice.Two extra mags are close at hand if needed.

Let your loved ones know that you will never lay down your weapon in the event of their being a hostage and that they should also not lay down theirs if you are a hostage.
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Old 10-30-2016, 02:25 PM
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Buffalo Bore does make the FBI load old cop. 158-Gr. Lead Semi-Wad
Cutter Hollow Point with a gas check. Their part number is 20A in the
.38 Spl. They clock muzzle velocity at 1000 fps with 351 pounds of
muzzle energy. I think it is a great load for personal defense carry
but perhaps a little stout for inside the house?
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Old 10-30-2016, 04:30 PM
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Default Defensive Ammo for .38 special/357 magnum

Liberty Civil Defense .357. I think it's 50 grain? Copper with deeeeep hollow point, and fragmenting.


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Old 10-30-2016, 05:35 PM
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Thank you for all your suggestions. Looks like I have some more research to do!
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:28 PM
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Default Yeah, this can be.....

This can be a real can of worms.

The 4" barrel is good in that you can get workable velocities without super heavy loads. I also recommend the .38 +P loads for indoors. It's close range and you won't need to shoot through car doors and stuff.

Speer Gold Dot ammo is very good if you can find it. I use the 135 gr 'short barrel' out of my snub.

In truth, any of the main brands with ammo made specifically for SD will be good and everybody's suggestions above would be fine.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:46 PM
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The 148 gr swc target load is much under appreciated.

Easy to shoot well, surprisingly effective.

You don't need gee whiz ammo to do the job, unless you own stock in the ammo company.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:59 PM
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Default Defensive Ammo for .38 special/357 magnum

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
This can be a real can of worms.

The 4" barrel is good in that you can get workable velocities without super heavy loads. I also recommend the .38 +P loads for indoors. It's close range and you won't need to shoot through car doors and stuff.

Speer Gold Dot ammo is very good if you can find it. I use the 135 gr 'short barrel' out of my snub.

In truth, any of the main brands with ammo made specifically for SD will be good and everybody's suggestions above would be fine.


Yeah I lucked out after searching a while and found a few boxes of Speer GD SB .357 at a gun show for my SP101. Less muzzle velocity on them, but supposedly little to no flash as well as a bit quieter. Haven't fired any yet to really know for sure though.


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Old 10-30-2016, 10:28 PM
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Here's a great choice for home defense. Hornady 125 grain XTP, $12.99. Buy two and Academy ships it free.

Hornady XTP American Gunner .38 Special 125-Grain Handgun Ammunition | Academy
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Old 10-30-2016, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop View Post
I had to use my service revolver during my LEO career and it was loaded w/the old .38 FBI 158 grain +P hollow point. It just works and while somewhat hard to find I believe Buffalo Bore carries it.
The Buffalo Bore standard-pressure 158gr. LSWCHP almost exactly matches ballistically the good older Remington +P version of the FBI load, which I carried for some years. By the way, "LSWCHP" stands for "lead semi-wadcutter hollow point".

The Buffalo Bore version is in my carry J-frame and my four-inch Model 10-5 head-of-the-bed gun. It's a soft lead projectile, which helps with expansion, and the cartridge is loaded with reduced-flash powder.

The +P BB ammo is almost low-end .357 Magnum power (and recoil), and is more than I feel I need, especially indoors at very close range.
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Old 10-31-2016, 03:33 AM
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The original FBI loads, .38 Spl. 158-Gr. LSWCHP from 4" barrel:
Winchester approximate muzzle velocity 808 muzzle energy 275
Remington MV 871 ME 280
Federal MV 834 ME 284
By comparison Buffalo Bore .38 Spl. 158-Gr. LSWCHP 4" barrel:
STANDARD PRESSURE muzzle velocity 1000 muzzle energy 351
(with gas check. Does not say low flash powder on the box, and
I have never shot it in the dark, so don't know about that.)
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Old 10-31-2016, 05:25 AM
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Using .38 Special +P in a 4-inch .357 is always a good idea for new shooters or for all home defense in general. I really like the the old FBI/Metro load of a 158 grain lead SWCHP. The major brands are good but the Buffalo Bore seems really good. The fixed sight K-frames are regulated for 158 grain bullets so that helps too.
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Old 10-31-2016, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCantu357 View Post
Using .38 Special +P in a 4-inch .357 is always a good idea for new shooters or for all home defense in general. I really like the the old FBI/Metro load of a 158 grain lead SWCHP. The major brands are good but the Buffalo Bore seems really good. The fixed sight K-frames are regulated for 158 grain bullets so that helps too.
I'm sorry but nothing is free. I find it very difficult to believe Buffalo Bore is generating 200+ fps more velocity and only pushing 17,000 PSI. If that's true they are generating 25% more velocity than any other company, why are they the only one? Physics can not be cheated, the laws of nature are set in stone.
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Old 10-31-2016, 12:50 PM
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Here is a old data sheet that gives a break down of ammo
in real life shootings.
It is just a guide line........ we all know "Stuff Happens".
If it worked last Friday it might not work today.

38 Special +P Stopping Power
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Old 10-31-2016, 01:38 PM
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Default Defensive Ammo for .38 special/357 magnum

I go with Federal HST for all calibers. It's the best performing round out there. Followed very closely by Gold Dots. 38 special is definitely adequate if you prefer a more manageable recoil than 357. I would go with 38 +p though for increased velocity.

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Old 10-31-2016, 01:44 PM
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The most famous documented stopper in 357 Magnum is the 125 grain JHP made by either Federal or Remington. Why have a defense gun in 357 Magnum if all you are going to shoot is 38 Special?
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Old 11-05-2016, 05:46 PM
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While I'm no expert at the question,one point keeps coming up in my mind when such a question arises;where do you live?If it is down south(lucky guy),a 125gr bullet should be OK.Same if you live up north(upper states or Canada)and the SHTF in summer.But in wintertime,I'd be more comfy with a heavier bullet that will go through heavy winter clothing.Just my 2 cents here!
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:48 PM
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Default 38/357 defense ammo

After a lot of research for carry ammo for my 686 2.5" I've come to the conclusion that Speer Gold Dot 135 gr are very good. I carry them in 357 because I am concerned about over penetration. They travel at a low 980 FPS. I also have them in 38 which aren't that much slower. Very little recoil or muzzle blast. They are designed for short barrel guns.
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Old 11-15-2016, 06:02 AM
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Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158 grain LSWCHP-GC +P or Speer Gold Dot 135 grain GDHP +P is what I'd use in your 4" M13. In that revolver the BB load will get you low end .357 Magnum velocities and stopping power without all the noise, muzzle flash, recoil and over penetration. The Speer load is not quite as potent but more than adequate for your purposes. I would feel very comfortable with either!
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Old 01-16-2017, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158 grain LSWCHP-GC +P or Speer Gold Dot 135 grain GDHP +P is what I'd use in your 4" M13. In that revolver the BB load will get you low end .357 Magnum velocities and stopping power without all the noise, muzzle flash, recoil and over penetration. The Speer load is not quite as potent but more than adequate for your purposes. I would feel very comfortable with either!
My EDC is the Speer 135 gr. +P Short barrel. Speer tells me I should expect ~920 fps from my 4" barrel. The Federale or Remington 158 gr. LSWCHPs are my back-up ammo. I have a box of each, and load 125 gr. plated and 158 gr. Cast SWCs to similar velocities for practice. I haven't shot either load after dark, so can't speak to blast/flash/disorientation.
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Old 01-16-2017, 11:11 PM
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For home defense you need reasonable knockdown power, controllable recoil and adequate--- but not over penetration. The Glaser Safety slugs give you all these features. They are available easily and are possibly your best bet. The old 38 special police load of 200 grains is also very good and even the 158 lead at 855fps is ok. The most important items for home defense are practice, being able to hit the target and the will to pull the trigger, with the latter being a crucial unknown until the time comes. Pray that it never does.
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Old 01-18-2017, 12:57 PM
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We haven't beat on this old horse for a while, so I'll pitch in once more.

Ammo for personal defense must be reliable, consistently accurate, and controllable. Adding a fixed-sight Model 13 into the mix requires that any ammo selected must shoot to point of aim at reasonable defensive distances (25 feet to 25 yards would be a good standard). Anything else creates liabilities (excessive muzzle blast, flash, recoil, or poor accuracy) which should not be tolerated for defensive use.

Fixed-sight S&W revolvers are, in my experience, invariably regulated to shoot "standard ammo" to point of aim, and that ammo is invariably 158-grain bullets. Your Model 13 may well be regulated for .357 magnum (as that is the caliber designation), but is likely to shoot 158-grain bullets at, or very close to, point of aim. Lighter bullets at higher velocities will typically shoot low (in relation to point of aim) due to shorter barrel times during recoil impulse. Heavier bullets at lower velocities will typically shoot high (in relation to point of aim) due to longer barrel times during the recoil impulse.

Best suggest I can make if to try a variety of ammunition under controlled conditions (known range, good support or bench rest, slow and careful firing) to see which type(s) your revolver functions best with. If you are a member of a club you may find that other members are willing to allow you to shoot a cylinder-full or two of their ammunition to evaluate in your revolver, otherwise you may find it necessary to purchase several boxes of various ammo to test.

Any load that you find controllable enough to consistently place 6 consecutive shots on a 9" pie plate (or within the 7 ring area of the B-27 silhouette target) at 50 feet or so should be adequate for most defensive uses. Beyond that my suggestion would be to stick with bullets having a large and blunt frontal area for best energy transfer (wadcutter, semi-wadcutter, jacketed hollow-point, etc).

I carried .357 revolvers for many years as a law enforcement officer. Working in a city environment, I never used magnum ammunition, sticking with .38 Special +P semi-wadcutter loads.
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  #36  
Old 01-19-2017, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurac View Post
I am a big fan of the Winchester 145gr Silvertip in .357 magnum. I know its kind of old school but I like it.


Super load! A detective here researched its use in a number of police and FBI gunfights and said it was almost too effective. But he's more squeamish than I am. I prefer to get certain results when I need to save a life.


BUT, here we're answering a lady who already thinks a four-inch M-13 is a big, heavy gun and who hasn't ever fired a .357 round!


The comments about the effects of .357 blast indoors are valid, too. And Magnum ammo kicks!


My four-inch guns are loaded with either the lead HP 158 grain hollowpoint or Speer's 125 grain Gold Dot JHP .38 Plus P. I do use 135 grain Gold Dot Short Barrel in three inch and shorter barrels.


Outdoors, where I might have to fire at a car or at felons behind cover and want max. stopping power, I have often loaded .357 ammo.


I'd also carry .357 ammo for defense against dangerous wildlife in the woods. That applies to dope growers as well as to bears or cougars.


But I sense that Kate is mainly looking for home defense ammo, to use indoors.


I also think she may want replacement grips/stocks if the gun has the normal walnut Magna style. Don't know her hand size, but would try Uncle Mike's first, and gun shows sometimes have them for maybe $10-15.These will make the gun easier to shoot well and lessen recoil effects.

Last edited by Texas Star; 01-19-2017 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:57 AM
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BTW, I like to see street results. A Dallas officer some years back killed six felons with I think just six shots from his Model 64, using the issued .38 Plus P lead HP, the FBI load at the time, and issued by Dallas, Miami, Chicago, etc.


This was in six separate incidents. Yes, he worked a pretty active area of town.
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklee4570 View Post
The most famous documented stopper in 357 Magnum is the 125 grain JHP made by either Federal or Remington. Why have a defense gun in 357 Magnum if all you are going to shoot is 38 Special?

BECAUSE indoors, the flash and blast of a .357 is not good for your ears or nerves, and the OP is a woman who's never even fired a .357 round!


You always need to think who asked the question before offering a blanket reply designed for uniformed cop gun use.
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:37 AM
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I've used my hand loads over 50 years now. I use a Keith 158 Gr. semi wadcutter bullet behind good old Bullseye. in my 638. Works just fine. My advice is to shoot your choice at night. It may change your mind.
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Old 01-28-2017, 08:53 PM
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My duty ammo in my issued 4 inch S&W Model 686-6 is 125 grain SJHP Remington .357 Magnum that chronographs at 1430 fps. Low flash, but staggering muzzle blast. In my 3 inch S&W Model 13-3, I carry 135 grain SBGDHP Speer .357 Magnum. I haven't chronographed it, but flash, blast, and recoil aren't bad. (Disclaimer: I spent 20 years on tanks with 105 and 120 mm guns.)

Off-duty I carry a 2 inch S&W Model 12-2 and a 1.87 inch S&W Model 642-2, both loaded with the standard pressure 158 grain Buffalo Bore .38 Special LSWCGC. Again, flash is not an issue, recoil is reasonable.

For low recoil, the Hornady Critical Defense 90 grain and 110 grain load have a good reputation, but I don't have any personal experience with them.

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Old 01-29-2017, 06:24 PM
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A lot of good responses on here. If you can afford it, try a variety and see which is the most accurate for your revolver. Full fledged 357s can be a bit much indoors, but I do keep my Colt King Cobra stoked with Hornady Critical Defense .357 mag 125 gr JHP based on the fact that they shoot well out of my revolver and I can find them relativity easy, which makes it great to practice with now and then. Also I was impressed how they performed in this video - .357 Magnum Hornady Critical Defense Ammo Gel Test - YouTube

Another decent option is Remington's somewhat affordable 158gr SJHP .357 mags, which I keep in my S&W 686. Here's a video on that - .357 Magnum Remington 158 gr SJHP Ammo Test - YouTube

I can never find Winchester's 145 gr Silvertips for the .357, but I know they have performed well in the past and don't quite have the blast of a 125 gr .357 mag round.

.38 Spl +Ps are always a good choice too, especially if shooting the .357 mag is a bit too much indoors. The old FBI load - 158gr LSWHP has a great track record under it's belt and I keep my S&W Model 10s stoked with those. I feel confident with any of those options in my guns. Good luck.
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Old 01-29-2017, 06:28 PM
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135gr Speer gold dot 38 in 3" or longer

135gr Speer gold dot short barrel 38 in the snubs

Modern bullets that have excellent performance in testing and on streets
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:04 PM
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I carry Speer 135 GDHP in my 686 2.5". You have to think about over penetration in 357. If it's your bedside gun, that comes into consideration. You don't want a pass through to go through a wall and in to another room. They are about 980 FPS and Gold Dots are well noted for expansion.
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topsarge View Post
I carry Speer 135 GDHP in my 686 2.5". You have to think about over penetration in 357. If it's your bedside gun, that comes into consideration. You don't want a pass through to go through a wall and in to another room. They are about 980 FPS and Gold Dots are well noted for expansion.


Even better, for those reasons, is the Gold Dot Short Barrel, which I have for my SP101.


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Old 02-02-2017, 10:37 AM
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Default Hornady 357 Mag Cartridges

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Originally Posted by oldiesradio1560 View Post
I carry a model 640 2" stainless steel
.357 magnum with Hormany Critical Defense 125 gr.hollow point and practice with it since if you load the gun with the ammo you are depending your life on then you better know what it will do. Critical Defense has a low flash and less recoil than other .357 loads. It will go through 4 layers of heavy demin and still create a 14" wound channel in a block of paraffin wax. For balistic charts on ammo just Google .38 special or .357 magnum balistic charts.
I agree that Hornady 357 Mag 125 grain FTX is the best amo on the market to use in your 357 for home defense. a bit pricey but as stated by the above comment. "When your life is on the line, don't go cheap." However I do practice with cheaper, Winchester 130 grain Full Metal jacket, 38 special cartridges and don't forget to dry fire about eight times as much as you live fire. A good set of snap caps for dry firing are inexpensive and worth the price. Tons of dry firing, right in my man cave, has really improved my accuracy. I have a red 2" dot on the wall which makes it easy to know if my revolver is moving while squeezing the trigger.
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:57 AM
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Question Advantage home owner.

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Originally Posted by REM 3200 View Post
Flash from a 4 inch .357 Mag. at night.
It seems to me that the intruder will see the flash as well and since you are familiar with your home and the "Bad Guy" is not, wouldn't that give you an advantage? Plus, most home invasion encounters take place within nine or ten feet, and it is very likely that both you and the intruder will be hit so I want the biggest bang possible with the first shot from my weapon. I suspect that I will grab my pistol grip, 20 inch barrel 12 gauge pump shotgun, loaded with 00 Buckshot, which will make an even bigger flash.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:13 AM
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Default Great Photograph

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Originally Posted by REM 3200 View Post
Flash from a 4 inch .357 Mag. at night.
Thanks for the photograph and thank you very much for your service to our country.
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