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Old 01-27-2017, 01:11 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Default Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!

Not really sure where to put this it seems appropriate for Ammo or Concealed Carry and also Lounge. Here is the post, mods move it if I guessed wrong.

Was at the local indoor range with my carry gun (Ruger LCR .38) another fellow (about 55YO) that I recognized from my small town came in and he had a Smith 642. He liked the gun but has arthritis type problems and asked what I was carrying for ammo.

I told him Rem 125+P and he said wow that really kills my hand to use that ammo. I said yes it’s quite stiff! He then asked me what none +p HP ammo should he get that would “do the job” but not aggravate his medical condition.

I said maybe you out to consider going to a heavier gun as that will help but I really cannot tell you what ammo to use as I use +P and you said that’s too nasty to your hand. He then said he was thinking of getting a Ruger LCR in 22LR as that would not kick much and just about double his ammo available in the cylinder.

At that point I really did not know what to say and said I will ask on the gun forum I’m on.

What say you on what none +P HP ammo would you recommend for his light weight gun?
Also any comments on him going to a 22LR because of his hands.? (I suppose its better than nothing!)
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:14 PM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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148gr WC .38 Spl should be bearable if he has the strength to use the 642 at all. Beats .22 any way you figure it.
Putting a larger j frame grip on the 642 could also spread the recoil and reduce the sensation.
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:14 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Practice with the gun he has with light target load 148gr HBWC and just use the plus P defense load for God forbid he ever have to use it.
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:20 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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I use the Gold Dot .38 Special +P 135gr (short barrel). Not really much more stiff than the .38 ammo I practice with. I'm 63 but don't have problems with arthritis.
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:21 PM
GeoJelly GeoJelly is offline
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Not to bash Ruger at all, but being an owner of an LCR-22, I also think the gent would be better off with lighter loads in his 642. I really like the LCR-22, but with the quality of priming in .22 ammo nowadays, I would not trust it, or any .22, for home and self-defense.
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:22 PM
silverstateS&W silverstateS&W is offline
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Default 642

magtech also makes a little known
38short load that is like a 38S&W load
38 CBC SPL SHORT 125 gr lead is what's on the label.
this is a wonderful load for women to start shooting with and then move up to 148 wc.
No,it's not $10 a box at walmart, but we're looking at specialized problems and solutions .
Best regards
Larry in Reno
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:59 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Thanks for the quick answers.

From what he says its the recoil that bothers him not the trigger pull.

The wad cutters should be a good solution for him. I'm not too keen on the .22 but as stated if necessary better than nothing!
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:11 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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135gr GTHPSB +P. They are +p but it doesn't fell any different to me

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Old 01-27-2017, 02:13 PM
Mister X Mister X is offline
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Federal and Hornady both make "low recoil" defense ammunition. He might try those. I think there might be a standard pressure gold-dot short barrel and Federal Nyclad are always come highly recommend. Any standard pressure .38 special round would likely be fine and would be infinitely better than a .22

My mother is in her 70's(with pretty weak hands) and uses them in her airweight J-frame. She doesn't practice much and when she does, it's never more than a few cylinders at most before she has had enough. Someone suggested she get a .22 because that would allow her to practice more and shoot better. She asked me about it and I told her to stick with the .38 special. The reason being is because civilian self-defense scenarios almost always takes place at extremely close distances. Probably even more so with older individuals due slowed reaction times, less visual acuity and mental awareness. At point blank range, just about anybody should be able to handle a .38 special and in a defense situation, you would want an adequately powerful round. A standard pressure .38 special is adequate IMO whereas a .22, although better than nothing, really is not. My moms plan in the event of a home invasion is to lock herself in her bedroom and get in her walk in closet with door closed and call 911. Anybody that gained access would be 3 feet away at most. She sometimes carries(in her purse), especially when traveling. She is mostly concerned with protecting herself against potential muggers, car-jacking attempts or some kind of physical assault rather than thinking she is going to get in an some kind of across the street gunfight with gang members. I pointed these things out to her and she agreed it made sense to say with the .38 special.
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:16 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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I also agree with the wadcutters and maybe a larger grip. Wadcutters are very light recoiling my 642. I have Pachmayr Diamond Pro grips on mine also and it makes +P pleasant to shoot...fills my hand much better and points quicker too.

Fox
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:19 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Perhaps he should look at some version of .32. I have a Ruger LCR in .327 Federal Magnum but it will shoot almost all varieties of .32

Recoil in this gun with .32 S&W Long wadcutters is no worse than a .22LR to me. Even my wife, who is very recoil sensitive has no problem with it.

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Old 01-27-2017, 02:31 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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My initial two thoughts were:

Some type of .32

and

Heavier revolver
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:32 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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During the past year I've fired several thousand rounds of CCI mini mags,CCI Tactical,CCI Stingers and some CCI standard velocity without a single failure to fire using a Ruger SR22 and an S&W 15-22.

Firing blue box Federal Champion I experience a few failures to feed in the SR22.

IMO the SR22 is a great fun very low recoil gun at the range and loaded with 10 Stingers it's often my carry gun in the pocket of my shorts during the hot Texas weather when the uniform of the day is T-shirt,shorts and sandals.
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:40 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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I've got a Ruger LCR in .22WMR that I've been known to carry . . .
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:45 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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A heavier gun would likely be helpful for him at the range, but the additional weight might be problematic for carry.
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:29 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverstateS&W View Post
magtech also makes a little known
38short load that is like a 38S&W load
38 CBC SPL SHORT 125 gr lead is what's on the label.
this is a wonderful load for women to start shooting with and then move up to 148 wc.
No,it's not $10 a box at walmart, but we're looking at specialized problems and solutions .
Best regards
Larry in Reno
Our LGS carries these and sells a ton of them to women. My wife has an LCR and these are very tame in it. No, not 22LR tame but still light. Shot out of a 686 it's real close to the recoil of a 22LR. I believe he gets $25 per box.
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:33 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Again thanks to all that answered. Got some good info and I will pass it on!
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Old 01-27-2017, 08:31 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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I'm a fan of Federal 125gr Nyclads. It's what I carried before I got used to +P ammo. However, it can be hard to find. Sometimes it seems like it's been discontinued.

Another option might be Winchester's 130gr Defend JHP. It's a standard pressure load that's supposed to offer reduced recoil in airweight snubs. I've never tried it. While I wouldn't base a decision solely on gel results, it seems to perform adequately in the videos I've seen. I don't know what it's current availability is like. It's been a while since I've looked for it, but I don't recall having any success.

Hornady has some lighter standard pressure loads available, but I'm not that familiar with their product line.

If all else fails, 148gr WC can be a good low-recoil option, preferably hardcast.

I'll also add that Buffalo Bore offers some loads advertised as "low recoil," but I think that's compared to their hot loads. Buffalo Bore standard pressure loads shoot like +P to me. Probably not a good idea for someone who's recoil sensitive.
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Old 01-27-2017, 09:39 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Since ammo was already covered, as well as other brands of guns... perhaps he might try a S&W 640 loaded with some of the aforementioned lighter loads? It should work just like his 642, and it definitely takes the edge off. Add to that some "cushy" grips and he might be in business!
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:15 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Did you consider the light bullet Hornady Critical Defense loads in .38 Spl?
Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Handgun :: Choose by Caliber :: 38 Special :: 38 Special 90 gr FTX® Critical Defense® LITE
Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Handgun :: Choose by Caliber :: 38 Special :: 38 Special 110 gr FTX® Critical Defense®

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Old 01-28-2017, 03:10 AM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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I'd go with standard velocity service-type ammo with SWC bullets. More punch than a WC, but the way everything seems to be under-loaded today, almost no difference in recoil.

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Old 01-28-2017, 10:00 AM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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A local firearms instructor teaches women's handgun classes and suggests the 90 Grain Hornady load for those who have recoil tolerance issues.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:29 AM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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I agree with the several posters above recommending a heavier gun. A steel J frame (36, 640, etc.) might be the ticket as might a Model 10 snub. A reduced recoil .38 load in a steel frame would be far preferable to any rimfire. The Airweight is not kind to sensitive hands.
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:31 AM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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First thing I would have considered is what type of grips he has on his 642. When I bought mine 20 years ago, it came with skinny little wooden grips. Hurt my hand and trigger finger every time I shot it. I eventually put Uncle Mike's rubber boot grips on it, and can shoot a box of regular (non +P) without discomfort. I recently changed to Altamont smooth rosewood grips so they wouldn't cling to my pocket so much, and about 15 shots is all my hand wants to do.

Everybody's reaction to recoil I different. I have large, strong hands, but I struggle with small, snappy handguns. Large handguns are no problem.

Also - very nice of you to be helping him out. Kudos.
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Old 01-28-2017, 12:32 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peak53 View Post
I agree with the several posters above recommending a heavier gun. A steel J frame (36, 640, etc.) might be the ticket as might a Model 10 snub. A reduced recoil .38 load in a steel frame would be far preferable to any rimfire. The Airweight is not kind to sensitive hands.
I only carry steel-framed revolvers (J or K frames). Never found them difficult to carry or conceal. With a Model 10 snub there's hardly any difference in shooting standard .38 or +P and the trigger is substantially better than any J-Frame.
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Old 01-28-2017, 01:54 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
148gr WC .38 Spl should be bearable if he has the strength to use the 642 at all. Beats .22 any way you figure it.
Putting a larger j frame grip on the 642 could also spread the recoil and reduce the sensation.
This is good advice but I would add that the 642 is a carry gun and not a range gun. I have the 442 and shoot it little because of the +p recoil, but I doubt it has 20 rounds through it. I'll shoot my steel guns, like the model 60 more often or the 640. I'd think shooting the 442 routinely is a way to beat up one's hands.
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Old 01-28-2017, 02:01 PM
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He could switch to a 9mm revolver like the LCR, or he could switch to a 32 caliber. I am not a fan of the 32 caliber, but I know there are some great loads that can be made. I am not a fan of 9mm in a revolver either, but this isn't for me.

I know not everyone is the same, but I am still amazed at the amount of people who have trouble shooting 38spl. The person in question has medical problems so that is understandable but I have seen others completely healthy that have trouble. Astonishes me, considering I am probably smaller than all of them and don't have an issue with any caliber.
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Old 01-28-2017, 02:11 PM
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Harking back to the basics, "Carry the largest caliber you are comfortable shooting." Maybe a .22 is it for him.
My advice to him would be to try some of the low recoil .38 offerings before investing in another gun.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:09 PM
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Lightweight guns are a joy to carry but recoil increases with the power of ammo. A steel frame model 60 will reduce the recoil to 1/2 of what the air weight has. Practice with standard pressure 158gr LRN or 148gr WC carry +p for defense. If you have to use the +P in a defense situation you won't notice the extra recoil. You can use something like Hornady 110 gr FTX loads in standard pressure for a light load but its probably no better than the standard pressure 158gr LRN out of a 2" barrel.

Frankly the LRN's are vilified as poor man stoppers but they're better than a stick and no one wants to be shot with anything
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:42 PM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPac View Post
. Astonishes me, considering I am probably smaller than all of them and don't have an issue with any caliber.
Be advised: a person's SIZE really has little to do with their tolerance for recoil.
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Old 01-29-2017, 06:50 PM
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Another vote for Hornady's 110 gr Critical Defense rounds. I find these the most pleasant to shoot out of my Airweights, plus they are easy to find.
Depending on how you plan to use this, you might want to consider replacing the grips with those from Pachmayr, Hogue, or Altamont, especially if this is more of an nightstand gun than a conceal carry. I can easily conceal my 638 with Pachmayr's Compac Grips, using an inside the waist holster and I can shoot stouter loads with it (Speer 135gr +P Short Barrel). My 442 is dressed with from grips from Altamont and I can easily shoot and pocket carry it using Hornady's Critical defense loads.
Almost forgot about Eagle's Secret Service Grips. They still provide a better grip without giving up on concealability.
Good luck!

Last edited by chanroc; 01-29-2017 at 06:59 PM.
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  #32  
Old 01-29-2017, 07:27 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Thanks guys, lots of good thoughts here. I let him try my heavier 60 and he said "wow that felt much better"

So we are working towards a solution!
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  #33  
Old 01-29-2017, 07:52 PM
Model520Fan Model520Fan is offline
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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I don't have arthritis, I still have fairly strong hands, and I used to consider .44 Magnum in a 4" 29 to be a medium-recoil cartridge. Meanwhile, aluminum J frames have ALWAYS been marginally useful guns for me. A SB with a Tyler can be a really good gun, as can RB guns with certain large grips. Some people don't find it convenient to use large grips, or haven't found the right ones yet. How about a steel gun? With a Tyler, or, even better, large grips if acceptable to the user? This is all for normal disability-free adult males.

IMO, there is no reason why anyone should expect an older person with arthritis to find a 642 usable with any ammo. I'm not saying that it's impossible - with exactly the right grips and probably 148gr WC or maybe 158gr RNL non+P ammo, it might work out, but one shouldn't expect it. People with arthritis should be firing steel K frames if they fit the hand, or maybe steel J frames if they fit the hand.

Did I mention that some attention should be paid to choice of grips?

If a magnet won't stick to your gun, wherever applied, there's probably something wrong with your gun.

Last edited by Model520Fan; 01-29-2017 at 08:04 PM.
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  #34  
Old 01-29-2017, 09:04 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Groo here
Get the lightest weight bullet in 38spec [non +p]
As long as it has a flat nose or HP.[no round nose]
Do not expect the bullet to expand,rather a flat nose for "slap".
OR, get the heaviest [AKA 200 lead] load.
The SLOW bullet has a different kind of kick.
More of a push.
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  #35  
Old 01-29-2017, 10:47 PM
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Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR! Ammo for 642 or drop back to 22LR!  
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Go get a K frame, if he can handle it or.............

get a 380 auto.

If this does not work the .22 or pepper spray is an option that "may" work ??
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