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Old 12-27-2016, 10:22 PM
sawlog sawlog is offline
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9mm vs 357  out of 2" barrel 9mm vs 357  out of 2" barrel 9mm vs 357  out of 2" barrel 9mm vs 357  out of 2" barrel 9mm vs 357  out of 2" barrel  
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Default 9mm vs 357 out of 2" barrel

Which round will have better ballistics out of a 2" gun? CCW.
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:50 PM
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I really don't think it matters at ten feet.

You did not say if you were shooting past 50 yards.
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:51 PM
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In terms of ballistics, (velocity and energy) the .357 magnum will out perform the 9mm.
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Old 12-27-2016, 11:02 PM
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What Armorer951 said without question!
Many people will say that the 357 magnum and 38 from a 2" barrel has the same ballistics. NO SO! The 357 magnum will always win hands down. The same is true when comparing the 9mm to the 357 magnum.
Additionally, you can use much heaver bullet weights when using the mighty 357 magnum.
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Old 12-27-2016, 11:17 PM
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Without a doubt, the 357 Magnum.


Averaged from ammunition fired in 5 different snubbies (2 Model 640s, one Model 60 and one Model 340) the Remington 125 SJHP moves out a 1180 FPS. These same Remington 125 SJHPs leave the 3" Model 60 Small Hunter at 1322 FPS and the 5" Model 627s at an average of 1450 FPS. They fly out of the 18" Model 92 lever-action at 2050 FPS.

The Winchester 125 JHPs move out of the same 5 snub nosed firearms at an average of 1205 FPS, 1496 FPS from the 5" Model 627s and 2100 FPS from the 18" Model 92 lever-action

While I have access to 5 Model 940s, I have never chronographed them (perhaps next month). However, the Remington 124 Golden Sabers claim roughly the same velocity from a full size auto-loader, not a snub nosed revolver.

Last edited by colt_saa; 12-27-2016 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 12-27-2016, 11:30 PM
caleb4387 caleb4387 is offline
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Magnus is still faster but even better you fan use heavier bullets with 357. Make a ME want a 627 with 180 grain hollowpoint s
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Old 12-27-2016, 11:34 PM
BigMoneyGrip BigMoneyGrip is offline
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Remington HTP in .357 mag with a 125 sjhp is 1200 fps in my M&P 340. That is smokin'.
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Old 12-28-2016, 12:06 AM
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Wow that's fast!! I carry a 2" or 3" model 60 daily. 125 grain federal jhp or 158 gold Dot.
I just bought a Glock 43 and it got me thinking all over again. It a 3.39" barrel.
My wife has a LCR, that's what got thinking about a 2" 9mm.
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:21 PM
kaaskop49 kaaskop49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMoneyGrip View Post
Remington HTP in .357 mag with a 125 sjhp is 1200 fps in my M&P 340. That is smokin'.
Can you do double-taps? I prefer the Rem/Winch 110 JHP in my M&Ps: more controllable. Good shooting!

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Old 01-06-2017, 03:42 PM
IraIII IraIII is offline
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I believe that high pressure cartridges such as 357 mag and44 mag show less of an advantage over lower pressure cartridges such as 38 special and 44 special in short barrels. I believe the 9 mm is a very good round for short barrels. The high pressure cartridges need a longer barrel to burn the extra powder in the bigger case, and the short barrels lead to increased recoil and muzzle flash with slower follow up shots.
A great resource is "Ballistics by the inch" where they chronograph velocities in one inch increments. The website is BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Home , check out the results yourself.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IraIII View Post
I believe that high pressure cartridges such as 357 mag and44 mag show less of an advantage over lower pressure cartridges such as 38 special and 44 special in short barrels. I believe the 9 mm is a very good round for short barrels.
Your facts are a bit off here.

You state that the 357 Magnum, which BTW operates at 35,000 PSI, is a high pressure cartridge and at the same allege that the 9MM Luger, which BTW also operates at 35,000 PSI, is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IraIII View Post
The high pressure cartridges need a longer barrel to burn the extra powder in the bigger case, and the short barrels lead to increased recoil and muzzle flash with slower follow up shots.
Getting a projectile moving is more than just a function of a cartridge's pressure limit.
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:54 PM
IraIII IraIII is offline
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I did not use 9mm when making the high pressure comparison, used 38 special and 44 special which are lower pressure cartridges.
I said that I believe the 9mm is a very good round for short barrels, I never said that 9mm is a lower pressure cartridge.
Yes pressure is not the only thing that is of consequence when figuring ballistics, case capacity is a large factor in that the pressure builds differently and acts differently in a case with more capacity than is needed for the propellant charge.
Check out the ballistics by the inch for the comparable brand and weight cartridge, you will see that 357 mag really shines in longer barrels, with a 2 inch barrel velocities are much closer. 9mm seems to me to be a more efficient cartridge which is shown on BBTI by the 9mm actually starting to slow in 18 inch barrels, while the 357 mag is still accelerating.
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Old 01-06-2017, 10:29 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
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357 Mag
Qc
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  #14  
Old 01-06-2017, 11:44 PM
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It probably depends on the ammunition you are using out of the 2" gun. A "lite" .357 Mag like a 125gr Golden Saber or that 125gr Gold Dot "lite" version Speer makes may well not be as big of a difference compared to something like an Underwood 124gr 9mm +P+ for example.

I'd be more interested in comparing a 38+P 135 and 158 to a 9mm +P in 115 and 124 out of a 2", as those are loads I would think would actually be walking around with most people packing a J frame Airweight or LCR 9mm.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:12 AM
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Default It seems it would be better.....

It would seem better to compare .357 and 9mm out of 3" barrels. My smallest 9mm pistol, a Kel Tec P11 has a 3" barrel. It would be more of a 'real world' comparison.

Without even looking, I'll bet that it doesn't make that much difference but would probably make the 9mm look a little better against a .357.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:42 AM
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IMO that would be totally dependent on bullet weight and the powder used. Both the 9mm and 357 Magnum operate at the same pressure so it would be possible to produce a load that had identical ballistics in either caliber. BTW, an easy place to start would be with a 124 or 125 grain bullet and choose a powder suitable for the specific case capacity for each caliber but with a similar burn rate.

I'll also note that if you increase the barrel length to only 4 inches you would then find out that the larger case capacity of the 357 Magnum will always trump the 9mm out of longer barrels. Because 4 inches is enough barrel length to get a 125 grain bullet up to 1400 fps and that just can't be done with a 124 grain bullet in the 9mm unless you load it to a "proof" load pressure.
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Old 01-07-2017, 03:03 AM
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In practical terms, looking at the BBTI data for 124gr/125gr rounds fired from real guns with 3" barrels (no data for real 9mm guns with 2" barrels), the 357 has a 100-200 FPS advantage.

And that is despite the fact that the gun used for the 357 was a revolver with a barrel to cylinder gap - which leaks pressure - and the gun used for the 9mm was a semi-auto with no cylinder gap to bleed off any pressure.

Even when you look at the extrapolated data for 2" barrels the 9mm and 357 appear to be pretty much a dead heat. IMO that would certainly seem to indicate that the 357 is the more potent round as far as I can see.
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Old 01-07-2017, 08:28 AM
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Don't get me wrong as I love the 357 but here are my thoughts:

357:
-high muzzle flash = blind in a dim lot room
-more noise = more deaf
-usually more recoil = slower follow up shots

I can't say the extra 100 fps is worth all of those negatives to me. The 124gr 9mm hst does 1,100 fps which will get the job done just as well
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Old 01-07-2017, 09:55 AM
Rivoak Rivoak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawlog View Post
Which round will have better ballistics out of a 2" gun? CCW.


Just Google Hornady ballistic chart. I think they actual charts will answer your question without question.

This assumes you do not do your own reloading, or you would already know the answer.


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Old 01-07-2017, 02:08 PM
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One thing to consider when making the comparison is that there are semi autos with 3.5" barrels that are just as compact as say a k frame with 2.5" barrel., let alone the snub j frame .357's with even shorter barrels in .357. One can carry a 9mm with 3" plus barrel and when ran with modern +p loads you can pretty much equal the snub .357.
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Old 01-07-2017, 02:22 PM
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Using the parameters of the OP's original question, and suggested handloading recommendations (limitations), there is no comparison, ballistically speaking. The .357 magnum could and would reach higher velocities in every comparable bullet weight, therefore, it will produce higher terminal ballistic foot-pound force numbers.....across the board.
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Last edited by armorer951; 01-07-2017 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 01-07-2017, 02:52 PM
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In my opinion, the .357 shines the brightest for killing men with the 125 gr JHP. So those heavy bullets are un necessary. Then there's the night factor.. Before you tell me I'm all ----ed up here wait til dark then go out and shoot that snubbie magnum and see how well your night vision holds up to that muzzle flash from hell out of the 2" .357..
Today's 9mm ammo isn't what it was 20 yrs ago. These days ammo like Hornady's Critical Defense 9mm penetrates roughly 14" which equates to a through and through shot on a grown man hit in the chest. It also expands to almost 3/4" in diameter. I'll take the 9mm with double the capacity and never feel out gunned by a magnum.
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Old 01-07-2017, 03:48 PM
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Did 22 years of low light training on an indoor range with all manner of firearms from .22s to short barreled magnums...I can assure you muzzle flash is a non-issue. From no light to low light to using only flashlights.

We shot both scenarios and exercises and there were zero issues with hitting targets with followup shots...


Theater scenario....38 Super.. The range was dark...what you see is the flash from the camera..




Low light exercises...







Flashlight only...




Bob

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Old 01-07-2017, 05:05 PM
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A person who shoots a snub-nose .357 with magnum ammo on a regular basis in low-light or no light situations can probably tolerate what most people would call terrific flash, muzzle blast, substantial recoil, and slower than normal recovery time. This has to be experienced to be believed by some.

For the casual concealed carry person who shoots infrequently, such a gun & ammo would generally be a very poor choice. Additionally, a snub nose gun, particularly a light one, even using the mildest of .38 Special ammo is generally more difficult to shoot well than a full-sized revolver. In the daytime. In good light.
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