38 special fiocchi

[pennzy]

I am trying to choose an affordable 38 special round for a 1984 2" model 36. I think I want to stick to heavy for caliber rounds and have been watching ballistic tests and reading reviews. From what I can gather is that expansion is going to be small at best in 158 gr. even with the FBI load. The 135 gr Gold Dots did expand but penetration was only about 12-13 inches. I feel better with more penetration. The only 158 gr. round that seems to expand is the Buffalo Bore but at high cost. This got me to thinking I should just find a 158 gr. round in SJHP. Probably won't expand but penetration should be good and the hollow point should be better than a round nose or FMJ. Fiocchi can be found in 50 round boxes for about $22 or so. Am I looking at this right? Any suggestions?

[Roberto Renauld]

Pennzy
If you are looking for a heavy bullet factory load for your snubby try Magtech 158gr SJSP "+P" they will exit your gun at arround 800- 830fps .
Not as expensive and not so "hot" as Fiocchi loads, very good penetration, nule expansion if you dont hit hard targets,this bullet is exiting my 4" Model 10-9 barrel at more or less in 860fps
Regards
Roberto Renauld

[mgriffin]

Lots of info on .38 Special out of short barrel .38s

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/

[pennzy]

Originally Posted by mgriffin

Lots of info on .38 Special out of short barrel .38s

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/

That chart confirms pretty much what I said before. Penetration or expansion but rarely both in 2 ".

[ContinentalOp]

If you want to stick with heavy for caliber, I think your best bet is the FBI load. It may not expand like modern JHP loads, but it will expand and deform more than a SJHP. It'll also give you good penetration while being less likely to overpenetrate. This is aside from the fact that it's established a pretty solid track record in actual shootings.

If Buffalo Bore is too expensive, you can get the Remington and Federal versions for less than the Fiocchi ammo you're considering, $18/50 and $20/50, respectively, from SGAmmo.

[mgriffin]

I guess I got it wrong. I thought the Speer Gold Dot 135gr. +P (for short barrel) was the go to round for 38 special out of the .38 special snubbies. It's what I carry in my 442 and I never feel under gunned or that I am carrying an inferior load. When in stock you can buy it in 50 rd. boxes for $25.00 - $30.00 a box. with that said, I also have a few boxes of 148gr. Winchester wadcutters that shoot real well from my 442.

[pennzy]

Originally Posted by mgriffin

I guess I got it wrong. I thought the Speer Gold Dot 135gr. +P (for short barrel) was the go to round for 38 special out of the .38 special snubbies. It's what I carry in my 442 and I never feel under gunned or that I am carrying an inferior load. When in stock you can buy it in 50 rd. boxes for $25.00 - $30.00 a box. with that said, I also have a few boxes of 148gr. Winchester wadcutters that shoot real well from my 442.

That is a fine round , don't get me wrong. I just feel better with more penetration. Probably the best price for premium ammo too in the 50 round boxes.

[ContinentalOp]

Originally Posted by mgriffin

I guess I got it wrong. I thought the Speer Gold Dot 135gr. +P (for short barrel) was the go to round for 38 special out of the .38 special snubbies. It's what I carry in my 442 and I never feel under gunned or that I am carrying an inferior load. When in stock you can buy it in 50 rd. boxes for $25.00 - $30.00 a box. with that said, I also have a few boxes of 148gr. Winchester wadcutters that shoot real well from my 442.

It is, and it's what I carry in my 642, but OP was asking about heavy-for-caliber rounds. I consider the SB-GDHP more of a medium-weight bullet.

But if I couldn't get SB-GDHP, my next choice would be the FBI load. My personal preference is the Buffalo Bore standard pressure version, but I'd be satisfied with either the Remington or Federal versions.

[pennzy]

Originally Posted by ContinentalOp

If you want to stick with heavy for caliber, I think your best bet is the FBI load. It may not expand like modern JHP loads, but it will expand and deform more than a SJHP. It'll also give you good penetration while being less likely to overpenetrate. This is aside from the fact that it's established a pretty solid track record in actual shootings.

If Buffalo Bore is too expensive, you can get the Remington and Federal versions for less than the Fiocchi ammo you're considering, $18/50 and $20/50, respectively, from SGAmmo.

Do you happen to know if the FBI loads are gas checked? SGAmmo has some good pricing and their shipping is reasonable too. They have the Fiocchi for $17.95 before shipping. $12 shipping is not bad either for quite a few boxes. Can get the per box price down to a couple bucks per box.

[ContinentalOp]

As far as I know, neither Federal nor Remington FBI loads are gas-checked. I believe only Buffalo Bore's loads are gas-checked.

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Fiocchi 148gr JHP +p is what I use in my 337 Bruising little buggers they are.

[kaaskop49]

Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER

Fiocchi 148gr JHP +p is what I use in my 337 Bruising little buggers they are.

EVERY 'business load' bruises in a 337, I've discovered...

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

[LCC]

Advice that resonated from the firearms instructor for his LEO department "carry the round you can shoot the most accurately fast, because those first few shots are usually the difference between living and dying."
After trying different factory rounds in the 642 that is my EDC, adopted Federal Gold Medal 148 gr wadcutters, a highly accurate round that with it's milder recoil is easier to keep on target with during rapid fire.
The speed strip in the off pocket, however, holds +P 158 gr LSWCHP. They are faster to reload then the full jacket wadcutters, and if I need them, likely at that point behind cover still engaged in a gunfight, and will want a more powerful round to continue defending myself with.

[pennzy]

Originally Posted by LCC

Advice that resonated from the firearms instructor for his LEO department "carry the round you can shoot the most accurately fast, because those first few shots are usually the difference between living and dying."
After trying different factory rounds in the 642 that is my EDC, adopted Federal Gold Medal 148 gr wadcutters, a highly accurate round that with it's milder recoil is easier to keep on target with during rapid fire.
The speed strip in the off pocket, however, holds +P 158 gr LSWCHP. They are faster to reload then the full jacket wadcutters, and if I need them, likely at that point behind cover still engaged in a gunfight, and will want a more powerful round to continue defending myself with.

That sounds like a good strategy. Do you get any leading with wadcutters?

[ContinentalOp]

148gr wadcutters are a good, low-recoil option, at least for an in-gun load. They'll cut a more-or-less full-caliber wound channel, and they have good penetration while minimizing the risk for overpenetration, typically going 14-15" in gel, from what I've seen.

However, make sure you test whatever load you want to try. I tried one brand in my 642 and it keyholed pretty badly, which can happen when you take an already low-velocity load and fire it from a 2" barrel. I'm still looking for one that works.

I can't help with the leading question, as I didn't shoot a lot of it in my gun, maybe a few cylinder-fulls, so it was a non-issue for me.

[pennzy]

Now I am thinking of going to Buffalo Bore +P either in 158 or 125 gr. I guess OK in steel J frame in small quantities (1984)? Probably shoot 5 rounds for giggles and carry only from there on out. I never used BB before but I assume it is reliable for long term storage and carry. 125 or 158? +P or standard? Anyone using either?

[MarkL_01]

Originally Posted by pennzy

Now I am thinking of going to Buffalo Bore +P either in 158 or 125 gr. I guess OK in steel J frame in small quantities (1984)? Probably shoot 5 rounds for giggles and carry only from there on out. I never used BB before but I assume it is reliable for long term storage and carry. 125 or 158? +P or standard? Anyone using either?

For what it's worth, you might also look at the not-plus-P version of the BB 158-grain load. It makes 900 f/s in my model 36. In the same gun, Magtech 158 LRN gave 655 f/s and a handload with Hornady 158 LSWC and the top-listed not+P load from their manual showed 780 f/s.

I've shot the +P version of the BB in a 2" model 10, but have not yet subjected myself to shooting that in the model 36.

-Mark

[LCC]

the Federal leaves minimal leading, and no keyholing as the 148 gr Federal is the premium wadcutter load for match target shooters.
My 642 has a CT laser grip, so the low recoil plus quick target acquisition coming out of the draw (Lobo AWIB holster) optimizes the chance to put two or three into a bad guy's chest within the first couple seconds of a deadly encounter.
When I practice with the J-frame, I draw and fire as quickly as I can on target, reload, reholster and repeat. Different distances, different body angles. Two hand, one hand, switch hands. One box, done.
If I just want to stand there and burn through ammo, it will be with either a 9mm Ruger or Sig in hand.

[ContinentalOp]

I'm with MarkL_01. I once tried 5 rounds of the BB 158gr LSWCHP +P in my 642, and my first thought after that was, "Well, I'm never doing THAT again!" Their standard pressure version, which has the same velocity as the +P FBI loads from other makers, is controllable, at least for me. Even when I carried steel K-frame revolvers, I preferred the standard pressure BB ammo over the +P version because I was able to make faster follow-up shots.

I will add that even though it's standard pressure, I treat it like +P because of the velocities it gets. I would consider it fine to use in your 36. Their +P versions, I treat it like +P+ or low-end magnum, and would only use it in guns that could handle a steady diet of such ammo. While your 36 could probably handle limited amounts without issue, a steady diet could lead to accelerated wear.

I've had no issues with storage reliability, though having brass cases, rather than nickel-plated, you may have to pay a little more attention to storage conditions to keep it in good shape.

As for the 125gr +P, I tried some of that, too. Definitely a snappy round. Personally, if I were going to that route, I'd rather choose the 135gr SB-GDHP +P. It's reasonably controllable, unless you're particularly recoil-sensitive, though in a steel J-frame it shouldn't be an issue. And, like the FBI load, it has a solid track record in actual shootings.

Just my opinion.

[ContinentalOp]

Originally Posted by LCC

the Federal leaves minimal leading, and no keyholing as the 148 gr Federal is the premium wadcutter load for match target shooters.

That is the one I originally wanted to try first, but couldn't find it so I got a couple boxes from other brands. The one that keyholed was Sellier & Bellot. I think the other brand I have is, coincidentally, Fiocchi. Haven't tried it yet. I will definitely keep an eye out for the Federal match ammo. Thanks for the info.

[pete950]

Originally Posted by ContinentalOp

That is the one I originally wanted to try first, but couldn't find it so I got a couple boxes from other brands. The one that keyholed was Sellier & Bellot. I think the other brand I have is, coincidentally, Fiocchi. Haven't tried it yet. I will definitely keep an eye out for the Federal match ammo. Thanks for the info.

Targetsports.com has the Federal wadcutter load in stock $19.99 a box.
I like those Nd the Winchester.

[pennzy]

Target is good if you shoot a lot and join their club or buy by the case. Otherwise the shipping is high.

[Bronco89]

My, "Go To" round for my 4" 38spcl (S&W-64) is the Speer 135gr +P. In a snubbie, S&W 637, I prefer the 110gr FTX, by Hornady. Lucky Gunner Labs has it at 14" out of a 2". If I wanted more penatration than that, I would probably go with a 148gr HBWC.