Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Ammo
o

Notices

Ammo All Ammo Discussions Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-08-2017, 05:59 PM
FloridaFlier FloridaFlier is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Naples, Florida
Posts: 324
Likes: 163
Liked 190 Times in 89 Posts
Default 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'

I have always preferred buying the .357 and shooting mostly .38's out of it. Besides the flexibility of the power range, I am a reloader and, while I've never done it after 15 years reloading, I think that a 357 may hold together if I ever accidentally double charge a 38 load, while the 38 will probably not.
I am also aware of the comments that 357's may not fit into the cylinder after shooting tons of 38. But I keep my guns clean and shiny after each trip to the range, so that has never been a problem.
The question is: will a 38, shot from a 357, be less accurate that the same 38 shot from a 38? I have heard that the short (0.10") jump that a 38 must make, can cause a bit of wobble that effects accuracy. True? If so, how much?
I'm not an olympic shooter, or even the best among the guys at the range. But, if I'm giving up accuracy for the power flexibility, I'd like to know about it, and if possible, quantify it.
Thanks in advance for the input.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 01-08-2017, 06:09 PM
Johnson184 Johnson184 is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 14
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Default

From what I understand, shooting 38 Special or even 9mm through a 357 Magnum has an imperceptible difference in accuracy. Only thing you may get is a slight drop in velocity.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 01-08-2017, 06:09 PM
apollo99 apollo99 is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: ARIZONA
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 103
Liked 1,475 Times in 601 Posts
Default

There is a very good thread on this very topic, It was posted last week sometime. It answers your question and many more about .38 spl in a .357 magnum. I don't know how to give you the link or I would. basically it includes the crud from the shorter 38 leaving a ring, it must be cleaned, Bullet jump wasn't a big deal, I shoot 38 spl ammo in my .357, besides the ring crud, I don't have any unusual bad effects. Accuracy is good, just the crud ring if I shoot enough. I also load .357 mag cases to .38 spl specs. That solves the ring issue.

Last edited by apollo99; 01-08-2017 at 06:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 01-08-2017, 07:12 PM
Semper Fi 57 Semper Fi 57 is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas
Posts: 40
Likes: 492
Liked 37 Times in 17 Posts
Default

After too many times of scrubbing the grit ring out of the cylinders of my .357 Smiths, I decided to just load .357 cases to .38 loadings. Voila, problem solved.

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-08-2017, 07:27 PM
wolverine wolverine is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 451
Likes: 2
Liked 241 Times in 116 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaFlier View Post
I have always preferred buying the .357 and shooting mostly .38's out of it. Besides the flexibility of the power range, I am a reloader and, while I've never done it after 15 years reloading, I think that a 357 may hold together if I ever accidentally double charge a 38 load, while the 38 will probably not.
I am also aware of the comments that 357's may not fit into the cylinder after shooting tons of 38. But I keep my guns clean and shiny after each trip to the range, so that has never been a problem.
The question is: will a 38, shot from a 357, be less accurate that the same 38 shot from a 38? I have heard that the short (0.10") jump that a 38 must make, can cause a bit of wobble that effects accuracy. True? If so, how much?
I'm not an olympic shooter, or even the best among the guys at the range. But, if I'm giving up accuracy for the power flexibility, I'd like to know about it, and if possible, quantify it.
Thanks in advance for the input.
Evening FloridaFlier

I have been shooting .38 in my 357 mag guns for many
years now.

As far as bullet jump effecting accuracy?-- it can but doesn't
have to & in some cases I have found the .38 to be more
accurate than shooting .357 mag ammo.

You can lose just a little due to bullet jump but that can be
more than offset by the more complete case filling of the
smaller .38 case, then more even combustion of the .38 case.

I play with loads, bullet seating depth, crimp, bullet type,
bullet weight until I get an accurate load (you can get
exceptionally accurate .38 loads in a .357 mag gun if you
are willing to put the work into generating a good
accurate load.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 01-08-2017, 07:32 PM
Targets Guy's Avatar
Targets Guy Targets Guy is offline
US Veteran
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southwest Iowa
Posts: 10,867
Likes: 2,688
Liked 18,968 Times in 5,588 Posts
Default

I have decided to shoot only .357s in my .357s. It is more expensive but I also get tired of cleaning the crud out of the cylinders. Not a big issue but shooting the .357s makes it a non issue.
__________________
Mike
S&WCA #3065
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-08-2017, 07:38 PM
diyj98 diyj98 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: WV
Posts: 2,426
Likes: 390
Liked 2,827 Times in 1,257 Posts
Default

I do it, but I agree with Targets Guy about being a bigger mess to clean. I've always always found 38 slightly more accurate out of 38 special only guns vs 357 magnums, but that just my experience and by no means a scientific experiment

Last edited by diyj98; 01-08-2017 at 11:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 01-08-2017, 07:47 PM
BC38's Avatar
BC38 BC38 is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 13,475
Likes: 1,145
Liked 18,400 Times in 7,281 Posts
Default

Semper Fi 57 gave the answer I like best. 38 special loads in 357 cases. All the advantages of 38 specials (inexpensive, mild recoil, etc.) without the drawbacks (bullet jump, crud rings, etc.).

Since you reload, that's your ticket.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 01-08-2017, 07:53 PM
gman51 gman51 is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Just West of Houston
Posts: 3,468
Likes: 787
Liked 4,674 Times in 2,062 Posts
Default

Interesting question and answers. Learn something new all the time.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-08-2017, 09:37 PM
Fide686's Avatar
Fide686 Fide686 is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Near Canandaigua, NY
Posts: 181
Likes: 79
Liked 319 Times in 75 Posts
Default

My normal load for most shooting is 125 gr. copper washed flat nose, standard primers, and 6.0 gr. unique. It is about +P. I use it in both cases. The groups are about the same as far as my testing went.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 01-08-2017, 09:52 PM
GypsmJim GypsmJim is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,233
Likes: 22
Liked 5,547 Times in 1,940 Posts
Default

I bought my first .357 in 1972. I shot .357 for hunting, and .38 for everything else. I admit to not being anal about cleaning it. A few years ago I switched to .357 exclusively, based on comments about the ring, etc. I DID clean it better before switching.

No problems, no accuracy issues, etc.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 01-08-2017, 10:32 PM
Super Dave's Avatar
Super Dave Super Dave is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Posts: 447
Likes: 276
Liked 467 Times in 144 Posts
Default

I think the accuracy of shooting 38 in 357 depends on the load and gun. A Tornado brush seems to clean out any mess in the cylinder.

The target on the left was shot in a .38 case and was the best of the day. The other two targets were shot in .357 cases. It was shot from sand bags.



Currently, I like the most accurate loads possible with the least recoil. Both of the above loads are accurate and light recoiling. But, the 38 load is even more accurate and lighter recoiling so that's what I'm shooting the most of these days.

Dave
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 01-09-2017, 02:13 AM
Lou_the_welder's Avatar
Lou_the_welder Lou_the_welder is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Los Angeles,California
Posts: 1,885
Likes: 3,791
Liked 4,094 Times in 1,212 Posts
Default

I shoot 38 short Colts out of my 627/357 cylinder . At an OAL of 1.123". My 38 specials around 1.440" and 357s at 1.590" are much bigger. pictured here are from small to big. Spent case is a short colt I shot yesterday. Shot 200 rounds and only had defensive rounds on moonclips for the special and magnums. This one is spent case example of a 357 case and 38 short. I only load 6 on a clip ever on a magnum. Bullet creep is worse than bullet jump! Ha!ha.



Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:18 AM
Super Dave's Avatar
Super Dave Super Dave is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Posts: 447
Likes: 276
Liked 467 Times in 144 Posts
Default

What kind of accuracy do you get from the shorts? If you didn't mention what they were, I would have assumed the were 9mm brass.
I'll have to look at my loading manual on those shorts. They look interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-09-2017, 08:13 AM
AveragEd AveragEd is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Enola, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,361
Likes: 591
Liked 2,580 Times in 1,125 Posts
Default

Your replies are going to be dependent upon experience and that will likely be affected by bullet type, lube on them and brand as well as powder used. Years ago, when my body and eyes were a lot younger, I went to an indoor 25-yard range three evenings each week with a 50-round box of .38 Special 148-grain wadcutter loads and the goal of putting all 50 bullets into the black of an NRA 25-yard pistol target offhand with a 4" Model 19. I managed to do that three times with a LOT of "47s," "48s" and "49s" thrown in, so I doubt that bullet jump hurt the accuracy very much.

I also shot in two police league PPC matches as a substitute. I used my 8-3/8" Model 14 in one and a 6" Python in the other with my wadcutter handloads and recorded 297x300s both times. Accordingly, I remain in the "it doesn't matter" camp.

And as far as the crud ring, I still shoot wadcutters in .38 Special cases in my Model 66s and 686s; the ring cleans right off with Butch's Bore Shine and a bronze bore brush although a ring left by several hundred rounds cleans off more easily with an oversize brush. I use Precision Delta hollow-base wadcutters with their Match Lube over 4.0 grains of discontinued SR4756 powder.

If I didn't have thousands of .38 Special case, I might be tempted to use .357 brass but I really don't see the need to make the change.

Ed
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:27 AM
joeintexas's Avatar
joeintexas joeintexas is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pensacola, Fl
Posts: 4,388
Likes: 9,733
Liked 7,187 Times in 2,603 Posts
Default

Since I do have an abundance of .357 brass I just load them to .38 spec +p. Works for me.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:46 AM
old&slow old&slow is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: central, Ohio
Posts: 1,165
Likes: 1,038
Liked 1,305 Times in 542 Posts
Default

Good Question ,, Good replies.. Thanks..

I've always loaded .38 +P loads in .357 cases for NRA action pistol and general use / target practice.
But, I recently purchased a 627 and was planning on trying 38 short colts for speed matches.

I've never notice a accuracy problem shooting 40's in my S&W 610. But I don't remember shooting anything with it smaller than 'Minute of Steel Plate '.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:06 AM
patrickd patrickd is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 413
Likes: 342
Liked 445 Times in 203 Posts
Default

Depends on what bullet you're loading in the .38
The heavier the bullet, the longer the bullet, so if you load the 158 gr bullets the jump will be considerably shorter than say a 110 or even 125 gr. However, the fact is that 38spl chambers will most always shoot 38 spl cartridges more accurately than a longer 357 magnum chamber will. There's a compromise, but the fact that the .357 can load either caliber makes up for any slight loss in accuracy.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:59 PM
Lou_the_welder's Avatar
Lou_the_welder Lou_the_welder is offline
Member
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Los Angeles,California
Posts: 1,885
Likes: 3,791
Liked 4,094 Times in 1,212 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Dave View Post
What kind of accuracy do you get from the shorts? If you didn't mention what they were, I would have assumed the were 9mm brass.
I'll have to look at my loading manual on those shorts. They look interesting.
I initially went to shorts looking for a bullet and load that would work better in the 627 and be able to speedload the moonclips faster!
My effective range is 25 yards standing but I know you shoot 100 yards still right? Even I would be interested to know how they'll stack up to 38 specials! And btw. My 38 special 125gr beat my magnums shot out of a 357 cylinder. ..at 25 yards. ..on HP38!

As far as loads for the shorts. You can start at the lowest 9mm published loads using 115,124 and 125gr bullets safely.

For example : 115gr 9mm RN xtreme plated .355 dia. , Winchester WSP's, starline 38 short colt brass (new) , and 3.5g HP38 @ 1.123 OAL.

At 3.5g. It's the starting range in 9mm on a 115gr weight. For Bullseye. The spread on that one is 3.5g- 4.8g?(on memory...) and Bullseye and HP38 are about the same on small cases like that. Using a .34 Lee disk.

I advise against published 38 short loads as the cases and guns published at those times were way weaker unless you see a correlation between using those and the weakest 9mm starting load.

I would use no higher than 4 g. On the 115gr. "A very energetic round" and makes for a great indoor light show!

My 125gr are good also......but maybe my post should be moved if I say more.

I've shot .355,.356 and .357 diameters in shorts. All fun. All reliable at 25 yards.

***I assume no liability in my loads and research sometimes going on old memory and each reloader is responsible for his due diligence and research in loads used in their guns! Be safe and have fun! ***

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #20  
Old 01-09-2017, 01:23 PM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

I'm no Olympic shooter either but I can not tell if there is a loss of accuracy when shooting .38 brass in a .357 Magnum. I even tried .38 Special loads in .357 Magnum brass and saw no better accuracy from either.

For those who shoot a lot if .38 Special rounds in their .357 Magnum and like to also shoot magnum rounds the same range trip. If you carry an empty .357 Magnum case what has been chamfered so it's sharp you can use it to clean the charge holes. If there is any carbon buildup you can tap that case into each charge hole and it will remove any carbon ring that is present. It's quick, easy and fool-proof.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 01-09-2017, 02:17 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
US Veteran
38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump' 38 in 357 and 'bullet jump'  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,376
Likes: 3,183
Liked 12,712 Times in 5,669 Posts
Default

I shoot a lot of light 38 cases in my 686 when I go to the range
just for a easy outing.
I also test 38 special first time loads for fps and pressure etc.
before I shoot them in my M49 J frame, if the loads are near maximum.
Over the years you "Learn" what a J frame +P loading will be
out of a 6" barrel, within 30 fps.

38 special in 110 and 125gr jackets are ok in my 686 but I get
my best accuracy with the old stand by 158gr lead bullets.
Both a 158 Lwc at 755fps and a LRN at 972fps will have 5 bullets touching at
15 yards off a rest, that I developed with Red Dot and 2400 powder.

I don't mind cleaning a 357 chamber after shooting 38 specials.
I treat my weapons as "Shooters" but I also take pride in keeping them very clean.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
S&W 929 9mm Bullet jump RogerOrange Ammo 6 11-09-2016 01:50 PM
M&P 340 Bullet jump, now what do I do? 307-Niner S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 14 09-15-2014 09:00 PM
M&P 10 Bullet Jump ? thatroolz Reloading 7 02-26-2014 09:06 PM
Updated again - 8-18-2013...Holy Bullet Jump Batman!! SAFireman S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 42 08-18-2013 02:26 PM
Bullet jump-bound cylinder palgeno S&W-Smithing 11 03-27-2011 05:10 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:43 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)