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Old 01-10-2017, 10:47 PM
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Default I am new to 357mag and ordered some ammo...

What else should I try and you thoughts on what I ordered? I ordered lighter grain because of what I read on this forum and what others have said on the other gun forum I frequent the most. A lot of what I see mentioned isn't available when I looked for it on the regular webstores I buy from and one had this available so I placed an order. My gun is a 627pc with 2.75 barrel

I think I ordered the wrong Buffalo Bore since its listed as heavy but I was looking at a lot of what was listed and added the wrong one. I ordered the 158gr speer to see the difference in heavier bullets compared to the lighter ones. I can tell a difference in my 44mag Super Blackhawk Hunter in lighter and heavier bullets


Barnes Tac-xp 357 125gr HP lead free
Buffalo Bore 357 125gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 357 158gr JHP

I am not wanting to start a huge discussion or be like every guy who starts a debate. Just wanting some suggestions to try

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Old 01-11-2017, 01:51 AM
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Just what do you want the ammunition to do for you? Sounds like you really should be doing some reloading.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:00 AM
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The reload savings are more significant for magnum loads. It may cost a few cents more to reload a 357/44 mag over 38/44 spec but the factory price difference is several dollars.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:19 AM
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It never hurts to try all the different bullet weights with jackets
from 110 to 158gr and a 158gr lead, to see if your weapon likes them.

One weight that many over look is the 140gr JHP bullet but it is
a great bullet in my magnums. Even better if you reload.

Have fun.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:47 AM
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Yeah, I'll go along with Nevada Ed in recommending the 140 grain loads too. I just started reloading them in the last few years and they are nice shooting bullets with plenty of hitting power. The lighter bullets might give less recoil and muzzle flip though with that short barrel 627 of yours. The shortest barrel length I shoot 357 Mag in is a 3 1/2" 27-2 and it's still not hard to control even when shooting 180 grain bullets.

You also might look at buying some cheaper ammo to practice with such as PMC Bronze or Fiocchi or Prvi Partizan and save yourself some money while getting used to your revolver, since you aren't reloading evidently. You can generally find them for around $0.50/round online.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:59 AM
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Default Gosh I'd hate to have to buy.....

...357 magnum when I can make anything I want at my loading bench in far greater quantities than I could ever buy.

But, since right now you are asking, Hornady makes some standard velocity .357 lead rounds. I like Hornady XPTs too. Speers are great, but expensive and hard to find. If you are just flinging lead down the range you don't need a cartridge that is designed for SD. Fiocchi makes affordable stuff.

I'm not sure why you like the lighter bullets when the .357 is optimized for heavier bullets, but if you like them, what they hey?

As somebody mentioned before, what kind of shooting you do determines the type of bullet and the load. If just punching paper the lead SWC target round is just fine.

People say, train with what you intend to shoot. I can't afford to practice like that, so I approximate SD loads and then fire a few of the real McCoys to know how I'm shooting.
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:37 AM
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I am really trying to find what grain I will like the best and should of ordered different grains to see what I feel confident I could use in a SD incident. I plan on shooting a few each of what I ordered then choosing from that what to keep loaded and I will get some practice ammo in the same grain.

I will try 140gr next and wish I had the room and time to reload
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:59 AM
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The 110 gr loads probably recoil the least, but a good JHP will do what you want in a self-defense scenario.
I prefer 145-gr Silvertips for SD- sort of a medium-power load.
Also, don't discount the hotter +P .38 Special loadings, or the mild 135-gr Speer SB load, which is closer to a really hot .38.

.357 is a very versatile cartridge. It's unlikely that you can't find (or make) a round that does what you need it to do.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:42 AM
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When I got my first .357, I investigated SD rounds, and picked the Federal 125gr C357B based on reviews I found. Shoots to point of aim, with consistently tight groups from my 686's.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:02 AM
JK-linux JK-linux is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcoyne View Post
What else should I try and you thoughts on what I ordered? I ordered lighter grain because of what I read on this forum and what others have said on the other gun forum I frequent the most. A lot of what I see mentioned isn't available when I looked for it on the regular webstores I buy from and one had this available so I placed an order. My gun is a 627pc with 2.75 barrel

I think I ordered the wrong Buffalo Bore since its listed as heavy but I was looking at a lot of what was listed and added the wrong one. I ordered the 158gr speer to see the difference in heavier bullets compared to the lighter ones. I can tell a difference in my 44mag Super Blackhawk Hunter in lighter and heavier bullets


Barnes Tac-xp 357 125gr HP lead free
Buffalo Bore 357 125gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 357 158gr JHP

I am not wanting to start a huge discussion or be like every guy who starts a debate. Just wanting some suggestions to try
Sounds like a fine assortment of defensive rounds. None are powder puffs, and the BB loads are stout to say the least. Only thing to do now is light them off and see what you think.

Of note, I was surprised at how stout the Speer .357 158gr ammo was. Not horrible at all, but definitely not a glorified .38 load for sure. Some have suggested it might be a decent hunting load for smaller game.

I like .357 myself, but found most loads too stout for my own defensive use in my 640 & 65, both of which I carry. I ended up settling on 125gr Golden Saber .357 Mag and 158gr LSWCHP Underwood .38 +P for my J & K frames. In my N frame I run stouter stuff like Underwood 125gr, 158gr and 180gr. I don't hunt, but the 180's are a hoot so I light off a few sometimes for fun.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:32 AM
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I would like to say that shooting a lot of the lighter bullet weights, 110-125 gr are very hard on your gun . It's just a bad combination no matter what firearm you are using (not just the K frame smiths) . I know of a ruger blackhawk that digested a lot , I mean a lot of the " hot loads " with light weight bullets-----it also is on it's 3rd barrel . I don't shoot the lighter weight bullets in my 357's . It was originally designed for 150-158gr approx , and there is where I start , or heavier .
For the lighter weights , I would go to 38spl +p , esp in a short barrel.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK-linux View Post
Sounds like a fine assortment of defensive rounds. None are powder puffs, and the BB loads are stout to say the least. Only thing to do now is light them off and see what you think.

Of note, I was surprised at how stout the Speer .357 158gr ammo was. Not horrible at all, but definitely not a glorified .38 load for sure. Some have suggested it might be a decent hunting load for smaller game.

I like .357 myself, but found most loads too stout for my own defensive use in my 640 & 65, both of which I carry. I ended up settling on 125gr Golden Saber .357 Mag and 158gr LSWCHP Underwood .38 +P for my J & K frames. In my N frame I run stouter stuff like Underwood 125gr, 158gr and 180gr. I don't hunt, but the 180's are a hoot so I light off a few sometimes for fun.
158 Speer has never been described as a glorified 38 special . you May be thinking of the 135 short barrel reduced power 357
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:21 PM
caleb4387 caleb4387 is offline
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so what gun will you be using it in and what purpose do you want it to be used for? why have you decide on lighter bullets? I lean towards heavy myself
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:03 PM
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so what gun will you be using it in and what purpose do you want it to be used for? why have you decide on lighter bullets? I lean towards heavy myself
627PC and I went with lighter because of what I have read on this forum about the heavier bullets being a waste with short barreled revolvers because the powder doesn't burn off. I will try a handful of different ammo and eventually pick one that I like then shoot the same grain target ammo. I don't shoot light grains out of my 44mag with a 7.5" barrel but ordered what seemed to be suggested here in weight


It will be used as a SD gun but will get range time also. I will probably rotate it with my Sig P229C 357sig as the gun I keep in my truck. The 357sig was the auto gun that I have that when I first shot it I was like heck yeah and have all the auto calibers except 10mm.

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Old 01-11-2017, 08:16 PM
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I think the OP has construed thoughts on the relation between bullet weight and the 'power' of a cartridge.

The weight of a bullet, has NOTHING to do with how powerful the round is, how much recoil is produced, or how the firing feels in your hand.

The powder and amount, in a particular round, is what determines the power. Whether the bullet is heavier or lighter just affects how fast it travels and how much force it transfers in relation to the charge behind it.

That 125 Buffalo Bore may very well be more powerful than the 158gr Speer. Doesn't have anything to do with bullet weight.

Just want to throw that out there because I am seeing confusion. It sure seems like the OP is basing his choice on which to use primarily on what the bullet weight is. As if the bullet weight determines the power of the round.

For most SD situations, you will probably find most people using 140gr+, usually 158gr. I use 140gr XTP home brews. You can usually get the heavier bullets just as fast as lighter ones, but they dump more energy off at impact.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
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I think the OP has construed thoughts on the relation between bullet weight and the 'power' of a cartridge.

The weight of a bullet, has NOTHING to do with how powerful the round is, how much recoil is produced, or how the firing feels in your hand.

The powder and amount, in a particular round, is what determines the power. Whether the bullet is heavier or lighter just affects how fast it travels and how much force it transfers in relation to the charge behind it.

That 125 Buffalo Bore may very well be more powerful than the 158gr Speer. Doesn't have anything to do with bullet weight.

Just want to throw that out there because I am seeing confusion. It sure seems like the OP is basing his choice on which to use primarily on what the bullet weight is. As if the bullet weight determines the power of the round.

For most SD situations, you will probably find most people using 140gr+, usually 158gr. I use 140gr XTP home brews. You can usually get the heavier bullets just as fast as lighter ones, but they dump more energy off at impact.

I was basing my ammo choices off of most the ammo threads I have read about snub nosed pistols people saying to shoot 125 and 135 grain 38spec +p instead of 357 because the snub nose wouldnt burn off the powder quick enough with the higher grain bullets. I am a rookie revolver guy who other than buying a Super Blackhawk Hunter 44mag a year ago because it interested me when I seen it and shoot 300 grain out of it have no experience with revolvers.

I shoot a lot of 124 grain 9mm, 77grain 5.56 and 168grain 308. I probably havent shot 200 rounds of 44mag because I my wrist hates me when I shoot too many rounds

I know lighter rounds usually have more velocity at the muzzle also

Please explain more

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Old 01-11-2017, 10:45 PM
llowry61 llowry61 is offline
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I have been told that the lighter bullets may increase the potential for flame cutting on the top strap. It was explained that the smaller bullets allow more gases etc to escape around the forcing cone resulting in a plasma cutting effect. On another note, it would seem to me a heavier bullet would cause more recoil based purely on physics. I like the 158gr hornady xtp, but I shoot 6 inch guns.

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Old 01-11-2017, 11:01 PM
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I have been told that the lighter bullets may increase the potential for flame cutting on the top strap. It was explained that the smaller bullets allow more gases etc to escape around the forcing cone resulting in a plasma cutting effect. On another note, it would seem to me a heavier bullet would cause more recoil based purely on physics. I like the 158gr hornady xtp, but I shoot 6 inch guns.
His 627 PC is an N frame revolver and top strap cutting is the least of his worries. After many 1,000's of rounds he will get some minor flame cutting that stabilizes and isn't a factor as there is still plenty of top strap steel left. What the hot, lighter loads might do though is after many, many rounds it could possibly wash out the forcing cone area and have to be sent back to S&W to get the barrel cut back a turn and have the forcing cone re-cut. But that will take a whole bunch of shooting to that too.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
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His 627 PC is an N frame revolver and top strap cutting is the least of his worries. After many 1,000's of rounds he will get some minor flame cutting that stabilizes and isn't a factor as there is still plenty of top strap steel left. What the hot, lighter loads might do though is after many, many rounds it could possibly wash out the forcing cone area and have to be sent back to S&W to get the barrel cut back a turn and have the forcing cone re-cut. But that will take a whole bunch of shooting to that too.
I agree. It would take a lot of shooting for either symptom to develop.

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Old 01-11-2017, 11:36 PM
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I generally worry much more about being able to hit the BG in the right spot than relatively inconsequential things like bullet weight and muzzle velocity. You should too.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:54 PM
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I should get my ammo tomorrow according to UPS so I will hopefully be able to shoot friday and will report back.

All I really care about is accuracy and being able to get back on target. I am decent with my other handguns but I have shot them enough to figure out which ammo and grain works for me.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:17 AM
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wcoyne, have yourself a good time at the range then. I don't own any revolver with a barrel that short, but my 3 1/2" 27-2 is a hoot to shoot and that N frame really helps absorb recoil.

And since you just have a 2 3/4" barrel, you might also look at some of the 38 Special +P stuff from Buffalo Bore or others too, if you find recovery from recoil an issue. You won't be giving up too much velocity over their 357 Mag offerings with your short barrel and recovery might be quicker for you. Bullet weight and velocity are only going to do you good if you can hit what you aim at.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:38 PM
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If you find the trigger guard to be uncomfortable against your middle finger, try out a Tyler T Grip Adapter...it solved the problem for me on my 28-2.
Don't forget to take a box of 38 specials to compare to the 357s.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
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If you find the trigger guard to be uncomfortable against your middle finger, try out a Tyler T Grip Adapter...it solved the problem for me on my 28-2.
Don't forget to take a box of 38 specials to compare to the 357s.
I have a set of Eagle Combat grips on order and will see how I like them. Whats on it now is short for my hands. I have seen the tyler t grip before but didn't know what it was called.

I hope I find a 357mag round I like and will stick to 357 if I do
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:48 PM
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Try a bunch...I have some Fiocchi (I think) 142 grain that are soft shooters. I just recently tried Geco which seem to be rated a bit hotter than most. I had no issues with those.
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Old 01-13-2017, 10:36 PM
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wcoyne; Welcome! It sounds to me as if you have been doing a lot of reading, and have become slightly confused. There seem to be at least two schools of thought about ammo; one says the 125 grain jacketed hollowpoint at 1450+- fps is the Bee's knees, but for the one little fact that not everyone can or wants to shoot it! With prices nowadays, to practice enough with it to overcome the "firing pin shock" is prohibitive!

Any ammunition offering by one of the large manufacturers will be good, and expen$ive! It has shaken out to be generally: "milder" 357 magnum loads like the Remington Golden Saber 125 gr., or the 158gr. GS. Other manufacturers make similar loads.

Others, myself included, have settled on the milder and more controllable , but equally effective offerings in the 125-135-158gr. 38 Special +p rounds, or the 158 gr. Semiwadcutter Hollow Point rounds from the "Big Three"...Remington, Winchester, or Federal. Those are the once famed "FBI, Dade County, RCMP" load, and are still very effective. The Speer .38 Special 135 gr +P is showing good results from the New York Police Department. That's one of the reasons I chose it. Buffalo Bore offers a 158 gr. Semi Wadcutter Hollow point that will expand from a shorter barrel, and is said to be effective.

I guess the point is; Find what you can shoot comfortably and accurately...If you have fun at it, all the better. Then, if you do handload, find a bullet/load that matches your chosen carry load, and use it for practice, plinking, whatever. I have trouble finding cast bullets that match the Speer 135 gr.Gold Dot, so I just load my 125 gr. plated bullets, which I have a potful of, to match the approximate recoil level of my carry ammo, and let it be good enough. Don't bounce from one ammo to the other...6 rounds of this, 12 rounds of that...you'll confuse yourself. Shoot one enough so you know how it will perform, keep notes, and more important, whether you like it or not, then go to the next choice. One thing...despite all, Cool, calculated, accurate bullet placement trumps all, no matter the ammunition or gun!

This whole thing can get all too emotional and serious; One day at the range, I was concentrating too hard; my groups were NOT what I wanted! The harder I tried to concentrate, the worse they got. Finally, I called it a day, and driving home, I was seeing double! I don't do that any more! Be safe, and good luck!
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:13 PM
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wcoyne; Welcome! It sounds to me as if you have been doing a lot of reading, and have become slightly confused. There seem to be at least two schools of thought about ammo; one says the 125 grain jacketed hollowpoint at 1450+- fps is the Bee's knees, but for the one little fact that not everyone can or wants to shoot it! With prices nowadays, to practice enough with it to overcome the "firing pin shock" is prohibitive!

Any ammunition offering by one of the large manufacturers will be good, and expen$ive! It has shaken out to be generally: "milder" 357 magnum loads like the Remington Golden Saber 125 gr., or the 158gr. GS. Other manufacturers make similar loads.

Others, myself included, have settled on the milder and more controllable , but equally effective offerings in the 125-135-158gr. 38 Special +p rounds, or the 158 gr. Semiwadcutter Hollow Point rounds from the "Big Three"...Remington, Winchester, or Federal. Those are the once famed "FBI, Dade County, RCMP" load, and are still very effective. The Speer .38 Special 135 gr +P is showing good results from the New York Police Department. That's one of the reasons I chose it. Buffalo Bore offers a 158 gr. Semi Wadcutter Hollow point that will expand from a shorter barrel, and is said to be effective.

I guess the point is; Find what you can shoot comfortably and accurately...If you have fun at it, all the better. Then, if you do handload, find a bullet/load that matches your chosen carry load, and use it for practice, plinking, whatever. I have trouble finding cast bullets that match the Speer 135 gr.Gold Dot, so I just load my 125 gr. plated bullets, which I have a potful of, to match the approximate recoil level of my carry ammo, and let it be good enough. Don't bounce from one ammo to the other...6 rounds of this, 12 rounds of that...you'll confuse yourself. Shoot one enough so you know how it will perform, keep notes, and more important, whether you like it or not, then go to the next choice. One thing...despite all, Cool, calculated, accurate bullet placement trumps all, no matter the ammunition or gun!

This whole thing can get all too emotional and serious; One day at the range, I was concentrating too hard; my groups were NOT what I wanted! The harder I tried to concentrate, the worse they got. Finally, I called it a day, and driving home, I was seeing double! I don't do that any more! Be safe, and good luck!
I planned on going to the range today but did not make it. I am going to buy some range ammo to figure out the point of aim then try the 3 FMJ's I bought and see what I think at that point. I do not plan on shooting all of what I bought in one trip to the range. I just want a good basis to start with before I get more ammo. I wish I had the room and time to reload but I don't.

Ammo for semi autos is easier to choose from it seems and most of the time I cannot tell that much of a difference between grains. I have not shot a 357 yet but will see how it compares to my 44mag which I can tell a difference in grains in
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Old 01-14-2017, 07:03 PM
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I shot my 627PC today at the range and I cannot tell enough of a difference in the ammo I bought to really form an opinion in one outing. The Buffalo Bore is hotter though. My best target was with the Speer 158gr but it was also the last one I shot so that could be a factor also.

I need more practice with revolvers and hit consistently high and left. I shot dbl action only with the hollow points but shot both with some cheap ammo I used trying to figure out how to hold the revolver and point of aim.

I shoot high and left with everything but not as much as with the 627PC. I am usually 1-2" high and left but was 4"- 5" with this gun.

I might be better with a smaller frame revolver that I can get a better grip on

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Old 01-14-2017, 11:35 PM
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Sounds like you are anticipating the recoil. try some ball and dummy drills to see if you are moving the gun .

Last edited by serger; 01-14-2017 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:01 AM
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Sounds like you are anticipating the recoil. try some ball and dummy drills to see if you are moving the gun .
Yeah thats what everything I have read says and could be true. I also read being cross eyed dominate can cause right handers to hit left and left hit right. I am consistently off with automatics but not as much with this revolver. I need more range time with all my handguns
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:54 AM
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get some snap caps and dry fire about 15 minutes at a time. Do this 3 days a week and you'll see a difference.
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