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Old 02-18-2017, 01:51 PM
Mikeinkaty Mikeinkaty is offline
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Saw a video where this guy could not get some of his semi-auto pistols to cycle with Super X ammo. Could this be because some 22LR ammo uses slow powder designed primarily for non-auto rifles or pistols?

I don't recall seeing any boxes saying for rifle or for semi-auto pistol. Many don't say anything about powder or velocity. I have a Browning Buckmark and so far it has cycled with every LR I've tried, except for birdshot. Oh, I forgot, it will not cycle with the CCI low velocity rounds. I use those in my bolt action rifle for squirrels.

The only thing I've bought in recent memory is Remington high velocity in 525 round boxes and that's because that brand lists everything. I've got some old Winchester that says nothing.

Just curious.
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:22 PM
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I have 4 semi-auto 22 LR guns and none have failed to cycle with factory "standard" velocity ammo. I'm not sure of subsonic 22 LR ammo because I've only tried it in my bolt guns and 10-22 (worked OK in my 10-22). I doubt the manufacturers use different powders for different loads, just may blend powders to achieve "standard" velocities...
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:34 PM
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All of my 22LR Semi auto pistols and rifles will shoot standard velocity 22LR Ammo. Some shoot high velocity better and more accurately.
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:50 PM
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22LR handguns and rifles are more finicky with ammo than a Women buying shoes!

It usally is due to the slide weight and the recoil spring. My SW 41 will only shoot CCI AMMO. CCI SV 40 Gr Target ammo It chokes on Federal Gold medal. It will shoot HV ammo but that hammers the gun and not good for it in the long term

I can change the recoil spring to lighter ones and it shoots fine,

22's like most 380 are blowback so if the ammo is weak it will not rack the slide back to chamber another round.

My Rugers will shoot anything.

You can do the same with 1911 45 ACP and get the Wolff spring calibration kit. Different weight recoil springs if you want to shoot light target loads,
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:49 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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Eley make a few 22 target ammos just for automatics. It has a traditional round nose bullet, as opposed to the "EPS" bullet with the protruding nipple. There is no mention of any propellant difference though.

When I owned a S&W 41, it was so ammo specific and jammed on anything it didn't think was worthy to be fed to it! My current 422 will jam on some poor quality Standard Velocity ammo, but likes most real Target ammo. The 422 will function very well with all medium and high velocity 22's, it just takes a while to find the ones it will shoot tight groups with.

My wife gets "Recoil Fatigue" vary easily shooting her 9mm Glock, so I let her use the 422 and a High Standard "Double 9" revolver to get additional practice. She will loose interest very very fast if the gun jams. (I let her use these 2 so she stays away from my 17-5!)

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Old 02-18-2017, 04:51 PM
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Most all standard .22 LR ammo is optimized for use in handguns and rifles. It is a **** shoot, however, which ammo will function best in which particular gun.

There are higher grades of speciality .22 match ammo who's powder formulation and bullet shape is geared specifically to rifles or handguns. This ammo should not be needed, however, for any regular production firearm to run properly, and is not always the most accurate in a particular gun. Enough experimentation with decent bulk ammo will find one that is accurate and reliable in your .22

Larry

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Old 02-18-2017, 05:13 PM
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I and the SW Factory can not figure out why my M 41 will not function on any Federal ammo (any kind) Heck the shot case stays in the chamber. Itt will not extract at all. The listed MV is actually higher than the CCI SV Target.

Sent it back twice, it runs on CCI so they are done with it.

The gun was designed around CCI Green Tag but I am not trying to find or pay for that.

I just got the reduced power springs from Wolff so gonna try those with some other SV ammo
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Old 02-18-2017, 05:25 PM
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I've got a particularly noisome lot of Peters brown box 40g lead 22LR that otherwise shoots fine except in one of my 10/22s for some unknown reason.

And sometimes the break point between 'SV' and 'low recoil' really isn't related to what the box says.

I walk the line with the High Standard Citation as "SV" seems to be something between 1050 and 1200. Even those enticing 1040fps & below target rounds are iffy with that pistol. Can't confirm it but it seems lead 40 is more accurate for that rather than the plated ones.

If any difficulty with any of the endless brands, the revolvers seem to enjoy the leftovers.

Never have run chrony test on any 22LR round.
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Old 02-18-2017, 07:20 PM
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I have a couple of Star Model F 22s which have had countless thousands of rounds thru them. If either has ever jammed I don't remember it and they've digested some pretty crummy 22 ammo over the years much of which came out of peoples garages and basements. They both still function flawlessly and these have to be one of the best 22 plinkers ever made.
Jim

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Old 02-19-2017, 02:54 AM
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*sigh* Okay.

Rimfires are a bloody pain to achieve reliability in. It is a fact of life. And here I'll just go ahead and break down the various issues.

Cheap ammo. There are two differences between garbage plinking ammo and good midrange target ammo. The first is bullets--if it ain't roundnose lead, it ain't target ammo. Plain and simple.

The other is primer. Rimfire ammo is primed by taking a wet dollop of glass-impregnated primer compound, depositing it in the bottom of the case, and spinning the case to distribute it easily. Midrange ammo (the Eley/Aguila family, CCI Standard) uses a quality primer compound, and high-quality manufacturing techniques. Cheap ammo tosses any old garbage in there. Guys have pulled apart entire boxes of Remington Thunderbolt, and found that 8-12 out of 50 had partial or complete failure of the priming compound to adhere to the bottom of the case.

The Winchester Super X is not the worst ammo out there, but it's nowhere near the best, or even the good.

The guns. Some actions are shoehorned into .22LR service, that have no bloody business anywhere near that cartridge. To make matters worse, with such a small cartridge, and such a tiny amount of energy to work with, tolerances are tighter than on centerfires. The quality of the surfaces matters. You can't get away with the sort of roughness you'll find on most guns these days.

Variations between guns, too, can make a huge difference. And especially between classes of guns. I make a new dent in my desk every time I see some rube drop a thousand bucks (or more) on a brand-new Model 41, and then try and run cheap ammo through it. That's a gun that's designed to deliver superb accuracy with the right ammo. So instead of trying to run whatever ammo Wally World feels like carrying, buy a couple boxes each of Aguila, Eley, and CCI Standard. Whichever is most reliable, buy a case and be done with it. Don't buy whatever the counter guy says "works fine" in it, because each gun is different. I've seen some 41s (just to name a model) that will only run CCI, and others that will only run Aguila.

The Browning Buckmark you have is a good example of a beginner's target gun. It's 99% as accurate as the 41, for a lot less money, and most importantly, it's a helluva lot less picky about ammo, as a group. Calling it a "beginner's" gun isn't a dig, because that lack of preference works if you're not willing to scrounge for The One True Ammo My Pistol Likes, and drop $425 on a case when you find some.

Even still--.22s can be finicky. Sometimes you get lucky and find one that really will run everything. Most will reject one or two kinds. So...don't buy that ammo.

People are idiots. I've seen everything done to .22s.

I saw a Ruger Mk III that "wouldn't work right" because it was dripping in oil. A drop or two'll do ya. I told the guy to wipe it down a little, and he never had another problem.

I've seen more pistols than I could count not function reliably, because the shooters kept swapping ammo.

I have seen guns left uncleaned until the bolts and slides would literally not close, even on an empty chamber.

I know one shooter that keeps having problems with their Buckmark. But only on the second string of each section of a 300 match. Wanna know why? The first string, the slide is closed when they start, so they slingshot it like they're supposed to. The second string, it's locked back, so they hit the slide stop lever. I have long since given up telling them.

I know another shooter that consistently, every single match, has a failure to feed in the second string of rapid fire. Why? They use the same magazines, in order, every time. Their sixth magazine has a slightly bent feed lip. I have also given up explaining this concept, and showing them my numbered magazines (all they'd have to do is load 10 for Slow Fire, and shuffle the bad mag out, or use the bad mag in Slow Fire).

I have spotted all of these problems, because I have done some of the same idiotic things myself. That's how I know people are stupid--because I, too, am stupid. I didn't always number my magazines, log their reliability, and stick the two worst in my Slow Fire strings. I have used the slide stop as a slide release.

Okay, so I only really ever did two of those dumb things.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:16 AM
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There are a few brands of .22 LR that are marketed for semi-autos - the Federal 325 pack in the silver box that seemed to be the most available during the darkest days of the ammo shortage, and I'm also guessing the CCI Tactical. (I admit I don't know what makes .22 LR "tactical" - perhaps they dress each round in black web gear? ).

Lots of variables why a particular brand, or load, won't function in a pistol. Magazines, recoil springs, undersized "match" chambers or slightly oversized brass for that particular gun, cleanliness as mentioned above. Good news is more than one brand is back to being available, so switch until one works.
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Old 02-19-2017, 01:23 PM
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I gotta disagree with Wise_A. Of all the firearms I own (first 22 in 1968) my 22s, all action designs, are trouble free and it's almost scary how well they function. In countless thousands of rounds I have found only one brand of ammo to malfunction and that is Remington (Ruger 10-22, Ruger MkIII, Remington Viper, and Raven 22). All my rimfires have their preference as to which ammo is most accurate, bur all will feed, shoot, eject any 22 LR ammo, both foreign and domestic, El Cheapo and $$$. I got 3/4" @ 40 yds with Blazer 22s in my Contender rifle...

Whenever I got a new-to-me 22 (Inow own 4 semi-autos and 3 bolt guns, and 2 single shots)I would buy one or two boxes of every ammo available (even some Soviet ammo from the '60s) to see which ammo the gun liked the best and as I mentioned above, only one that failed...

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Old 02-19-2017, 02:08 PM
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I gotta disagree with Wise_A. Of all the firearms I own (first 22 in 1968) my 22s, all action designs, are trouble free and it's almost scary how well they function. In countless thousands of rounds I have found only one brand of ammo to malfunction and that is Remington (Ruger 10-22, Ruger MkIII, Remington Viper, and Raven 22). All my rimfires have their preference as to which ammo is most accurate, bur all will feed, shoot, eject any 22 LR ammo, both foreign and domestic, El Cheapo and $$$. I got 3/4" @ 40 yds with Blazer 22s in my Contender rifle...

Whenever I got a new-to-me 22 (Inow own 4 semi-autos and 3 bolt guns, and 2 single shots)I would buy one or two boxes of every ammo available (even some Soviet ammo from the '60s) to see which ammo the gun liked the best and as I mentioned above, only one that failed...
See? This is what makes 22 lr such a ******* shoot
No saying mikid did not have issues, it just happens.

I have shoot thousands of cheap Remington ammo, Golden Bullets, Thunderbolts whatever and never has an issue.

So guns just shoot some ammo and others don't. It shouldn't be but it is.

All my centerfire guns will shoot any ammo, some may not be as accurate but not total failure. I reload and any primer I use works. I am still on cases of Wolff primers and some folks hate them. I do not shoot metal case ammo except in a AR 15, heck it is as cheap as it gets and works every time.

One of life's great mysterys.
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Old 02-19-2017, 08:57 PM
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I gotta disagree with Wise_A. Of all the firearms I own (first 22 in 1968) my 22s, all action designs, are trouble free and it's almost scary how well they function. In countless thousands of rounds I have found only one brand of ammo to malfunction and that is Remington (Ruger 10-22, Ruger MkIII, Remington Viper, and Raven 22). All my rimfires have their preference as to which ammo is most accurate, bur all will feed, shoot, eject any 22 LR ammo, both foreign and domestic, El Cheapo and $$$. I got 3/4" @ 40 yds with Blazer 22s in my Contender rifle...
Then you've been lucky. And you haven't really named any that are known to be picky as to function.

In fact, the Ruger Mk III and 10/22 are known for their unchoosiness.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:24 PM
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When I first got my SW22 it would not cycle TAC-22 ammo less than 1100FPS. Pretty upsetting since I bought a bric of it when I bought the pistol. No matter I'd use it with my revolvers.

After 1500 rounds through the SW22 I tried this very same TAC-22 and it works fine. But I make a point of putting nothing in it under 1100 FPS. No issues since I changed my process.

I have noticed now that I read the ammo boxes that some says not for use in semi-auto pistols.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:37 PM
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617 vs. Browning buckmark contour.

- Yes I like the 617 but after a while the cylinder will get gunked up
and need a quick wipe out, then its back online. I also had to ream out the cylinders or it would only get maybe 50rds before the cylinders would foul out and not allow rotation or extraction.

- My browning buckmark contour will feed and shoot anything I cram in there. Dirtiest Remington greenies, subsonic, you name it. I betcha it would eat its own innerds and ask for seconds!

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Old 02-20-2017, 12:55 PM
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I have a Buckmark and love it. I got bored with it because it worked reliably and was way too easy to shoot. I bought a 617 just because. The 617 was finicky at first, the spent cartridges were hard to eject after shooting about 4-5 cylinders worth of ammo but eased up after a lot of cleaning with a wire brush.
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:57 PM
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The Buckmark is pretty far up there on my list of stuff I'd recommend to new Bullseye shooters. They mostly eat anything, they run without cleaning forever, and the trigger is normally a little better than the stock Ruger. They're even nice and light. The only caveat is their whole grip situation--the grips hold in some trigger components, which can result in a fun surprise the first time somebody goes to swap them. And the grip situation on the URX/UDX models.

Knew a guy wanted to replace the grips on his Buckmark UDX Whatever. Now, he knows that regular grips won't fit the UDX. What's he do? He goes out and orders a set of Nil-Griffes for the standard model, just to see if they'd fit. Can't return them. Must be nice to have that kinda money.

Same guy, same gun--lets me shoot it one day. I figure, never shot one of these before, what the hey. Take it, load, aim, squeeze--click. Hold it out there just in the off chance it's a hang-fire, then drop the mag and eject. No firing pin strike. Huh! Load the same cartridge up again.

Aim, squeeze, bang! Okay, no biggie. Aim, squeeze, click. Huh. On a lark--aim, squeeze...bang?!

What the hell?

And it goes like that. Needs two squeezes per bang, most of the time. Turn around and ask him, what's up?

"Oh, it just does that."
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Old 02-21-2017, 02:18 PM
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Then you've been lucky. And you haven't really named any that are known to be picky as to function.

In fact, the Ruger Mk III and 10/22 are known for their unchoosiness.
Perhaps intelligent rather than lucky? Why would anyone choose a firearm the has a reputation for fussiness? I don't have a round count, but prolly close to 100,000 rounds in my rimfires. I keep my guns clean and don't shoot known dirty ammo (Remington is the only ammo I had trouble with in 3 different semi-autos, even a Remington rifle!). I think if anyone could count/estimate the bizillions of 22 LR rounds manufactured and fired the failure rate would be so small at to be almost unbelievable. In the 35+ years shooting rimfires I can't remember one failure to fire (even Mexican, European,and the absolute cheapest ammo). Lucky? Nope. Maybe I keep my toys clean and in good working order?
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Old 02-21-2017, 08:38 PM
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Rule 3 said
"It usally is due to the slide weight and the recoil spring. My SW 41 will only shoot CCI AMMO. CCI SV 40 Gr Target ammo It chokes on Federal Gold medal. It will shoot HV ammo but that hammers the gun and not good for it in the long term"

I disagree with the statement that model 41's are made to run on CCI SV.
My 1980 vintage model 41 will not run on SV, unless you put in a reduced power recoil spring. I have shot Super X HV and now CCI blazer HV since the early 1980's, never replaced a single part except recoil springs, (std S&W springs, no buffer). I shoot around 5000 rds a year thru it, it is still as accurate and dependable has it ever was.

When can I expect for the disaster to start ?
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Old 02-21-2017, 09:41 PM
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Rule 3 said
"It usally is due to the slide weight and the recoil spring. My SW 41 will only shoot CCI AMMO. CCI SV 40 Gr Target ammo It chokes on Federal Gold medal. It will shoot HV ammo but that hammers the gun and not good for it in the long term"

I disagree with the statement that model 41's are made to run on CCI SV.
My 1980 vintage model 41 will not run on SV, unless you put in a reduced power recoil spring. I have shot Super X HV and now CCI blazer HV since the early 1980's, never replaced a single part except recoil springs, (std S&W springs, no buffer). I shoot around 5000 rds a year thru it, it is still as accurate and dependable has it ever was.

When can I expect for the disaster to start ?
My 41 runs great on Aquila sv(smells funny) and Win/Rem sv ball(military surplus) .22.....................
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:03 AM
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Perhaps intelligent rather than lucky? Why would anyone choose a firearm the has a reputation for fussiness?

...

Lucky? Nope. Maybe I keep my toys clean and in good working order?
Because you do a thing called competition, and some of those fussy, picky, choosy firearms are truly excellent. Even if you don't, some are just a joy to own.

Take the High Standard Supermatic. I'll admit, I don't get this one, but some guys just can't let 'em go. Never mind the fact that the bloody thing doesn't have a feed ramp, so if your magazines (they start at $50 a piece) get a lip bent even just a teensy bit, they just don't feed. I'm told by those with the taste for them that they're excellent.

Or how about the Feinwerkbau AW-93? If you let me have one of those, and told me all I had to do was buy the expensive and hard-to-get Wolf SK Match ammo it needed...whooh! I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat.

Or the Pardini SP-22. The Walther GSP. The Benelli MP95E (or the 90S!). The Hammerli 208 and 280 and SP20. The S&W Model 41.

Or Nelson Custom uppers, with parts manufactured by Macmillan of all places, riding on custom, hand-built 1911 lowers.

Why? They're worth the fiddling, and the ammo, and every other damn thing. Shooting them is a joy.

But hey--there's no accounting for taste.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:16 AM
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See? This is what makes 22 lr such a ******* shoot
No saying mikid did not have issues, it just happens.

I have shoot thousands of cheap Remington ammo, Golden Bullets, Thunderbolts whatever and never has an issue.

So guns just shoot some ammo and others don't. It shouldn't be but it is.

All my centerfire guns will shoot any ammo, some may not be as accurate but not total failure. I reload and any primer I use works. I am still on cases of Wolff primers and some folks hate them. I do not shoot metal case ammo except in a AR 15, heck it is as cheap as it gets and works every time.

One of life's great mysterys.

I've shot many different kinds of .22lr ammo through my SW22 and Compact .22 and no ammo except Remington Thunderbolts does this to my barrels.



I don't use Thunderbolts anymore.

Remington Golden rounds are fine.
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Old 02-23-2017, 07:06 PM
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Because you do a thing called competition, and some of those fussy, picky, choosy firearms are truly excellent. Even if you don't, some are just a joy to own.

Take the High Standard Supermatic. I'll admit, I don't get this one, but some guys just can't let 'em go. Never mind the fact that the bloody thing doesn't have a feed ramp, so if your magazines (they start at $50 a piece) get a lip bent even just a teensy bit, they just don't feed. I'm told by those with the taste for them that they're excellent.

Or how about the Feinwerkbau AW-93? If you let me have one of those, and told me all I had to do was buy the expensive and hard-to-get Wolf SK Match ammo it needed...whooh! I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat.

Or the Pardini SP-22. The Walther GSP. The Benelli MP95E (or the 90S!). The Hammerli 208 and 280 and SP20. The S&W Model 41.

Or Nelson Custom uppers, with parts manufactured by Macmillan of all places, riding on custom, hand-built 1911 lowers.

Why? They're worth the fiddling, and the ammo, and every other damn thing. Shooting them is a joy.

But hey--there's no accounting for taste.
Really don't understand how this post fits. I thought you claimed 22 LR firearms were only so-so as far as reliability. No matter how accurate a gun is, if you can' make it shoot reliably, you can't blame ammunition...
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Old 02-24-2017, 06:19 PM
spirit4earth spirit4earth is offline
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Can CCI AR-Tactical be used in a pistol, like the S&W Compact 22?
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:27 PM
M E Morrison M E Morrison is offline
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Can CCI AR-Tactical be used in a pistol, like the S&W Compact 22?
I use it in a S&W kit gun - so far it has produced the best accuracy.
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Old 02-25-2017, 05:00 PM
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Rule3 Rule3 is offline
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Rule 3 said
"It usally is due to the slide weight and the recoil spring. My SW 41 will only shoot CCI AMMO. CCI SV 40 Gr Target ammo It chokes on Federal Gold medal. It will shoot HV ammo but that hammers the gun and not good for it in the long term"

I disagree with the statement that model 41's are made to run on CCI SV.
My 1980 vintage model 41 will not run on SV, unless you put in a reduced power recoil spring. I have shot Super X HV and now CCI blazer HV since the early 1980's, never replaced a single part except recoil springs, (std S&W springs, no buffer). I shoot around 5000 rds a year thru it, it is still as accurate and dependable has it ever was.

When can I expect for the disaster to start ?
Actually the even more prefered ammo for the SW M 41 was CCI Green Tag!

Buy a few boxes of those and go broke!

Yes my gun will shoot most any HV ammo, but it is supposed to be a target gun and shoot SV ammo.

I reload almost every handgun caliber and several rifles.

I load 38 special wadcutters for the M 52 with real mouse fart loads. It is all about the recoil spring and slide weight.

I f I shot full powered loads in that gun it what damage it,
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  #28  
Old 02-27-2017, 11:36 PM
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you know. rimfires have to be broken in.
when i first got my 22/45, it wouldn't cycle SV.
on the rimfire forum, they told me to run a brick of HV thru it to break it in.
i did, n then everything was fine.
as far as the reputed unreliability of rimfire ammo, that only applies to bulk.
i use cci sv for hunting n wolf for serious work n have never ever had a failure.
the wolf will give me a 7/8'' group at 25 yards n the cci sv will give me 1 1/8'' group.
so, i have no need for super expensive match.
i just can't feed garbage.
heck, wolf only costs 11 cents/round.
there is no saving buying bulk for 6 cents if you can't hit anything.
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:44 PM
spirit4earth spirit4earth is offline
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I had my first failure to extract with the Federal silver box 325 bulk. It's also very sparky. I've had great luck with CCI SB and MiniMags, and Winchester Super X. I'm going to try CCI AR-Tactical next.
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:59 PM
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you know. rimfires have to be broken in.
when i first got my 22/45, it wouldn't cycle SV.
on the rimfire forum, they told me to run a brick of HV thru it to break it in.
i did, n then everything was fine.
Another known source of problems with the Ruger MK & 10/22 is the extractor. Put the stock Ruger part next to a Volquartzen & you'll see the difference.

Pro tip: Order up a couple of extra extractor plungers BEFORE attempting the swap. The plunger will launch a long ways... guess how I know...
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