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Old 02-22-2017, 12:27 AM
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What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph  
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Default What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph

Lots of folk talk about the .5.56 being under powered, especially against Afghan mud walls.

Would .243 or .257 Roberts do the job?

What is the next round up for putting down the hurt.
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:38 AM
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For the good guys it's easy, .308 (7.62x51 m/m), 300 Win Mag then JMB's baby, Ma Duce. If available, C130 Spectre 30 m/m or 105 m/m streams of justice helps them meet up with potential virgin dates on Allah-only.com.
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:45 AM
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AR10 (308)
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:47 AM
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What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph  
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No in between 5.56 and .308?
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:03 AM
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What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph  
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There's is...but why?

223/556 on left, 308 on right


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Old 02-22-2017, 01:10 AM
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Maybe 300 Blackout, loaded similar to AK-47 (7.62x39) levels, if you want to use an AR platform. Still shooting a 7.62 (.308) bullet as the previous posters recommended, but only about 123 gr instead of ~150 gr.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:25 AM
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Default well, there it is..

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There's is...but why?

223/556 on left, 308 on right


A picture is worth pages of blather that means nothing.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:27 AM
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In my opinion, the next step up from the 5.56mm is the 6.8mm SPC. It was designed from the beginning to fill the gap between the 5.56mm and 7.62mm (.308 Winchester). If you look at the ballistics charts for the 5.56, 6.8 and 7.62, you will see that the 6.8 does indeed fall halfway between the 5.56 and 7.62. Many people think of the 6.8 as the .270 in the AR world. If you already have an AR chambered in 5.56mm and you want to shoot 6.8mm, you will need a 6.8 upper with the bolt (you can use the charging handle from your 5.56 upper), and 6.8 SPC magazines.

There are a lot of .300 Blackout fans also, and one advantage of the .300 is you only need the upper, and you can use the existing charging handle, bolt and magazines from you 5.56mm AR.

I put together my 6.8 SPC last year (Palmetto State Armory upper and lower), but haven't taken any game with it yet.

Regards,

Dave

2/25/17: photos of my PSA 6.8 SPC II rifle.

Dave
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Old 02-22-2017, 02:40 AM
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You might sneak a privately owned handgun in if you're in the right spot in the food chain, or a pilot, or SF. I don't think you'll be able to sneak in granddad's old 257 Roberts deer rifle to prevent goat molestation though.
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Old 02-22-2017, 02:54 AM
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The *next* chambering up would be the 6x45 .
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Old 02-22-2017, 02:58 AM
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If you are talking GI issue ammo the 308 is next in line.

Don't expect a GI to pull a 257 Roberts out of his pocket to get
you out of a jam !!

Now if you are just asking.................
try this.


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Old 02-22-2017, 09:34 AM
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Doubtful anything less than .50 cal will penetrate an Afghan mud wall at other than point blank range.
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Old 02-22-2017, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
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Doubtful anything less than .50 cal will penetrate an Afghan mud wall at other than point blank range.
Exactly what I was thinking. How do we know .308 would even do it. Launch an M203 round at it and then fire away with 5.56.
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:00 AM
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That isn't just mud. It's mud, straw, stone, clay and timber. Those walls are thick. You're not getting 7.62NATO through it. At least not from any distance.

Check out the thickness of the walls. Earth is very good at stopping bullets. Which is why everyone uses sandbags








Here is a video of clay bricks just stacked together in a form of a wall. There is no mortar, no mud, no straw or timber. They are dry clay bricks and the thickness of the "wall" is the length of one clay brick. Guys look like they are 25 - 50 yards away. Out of 20 AK rounds one managed to get through a seem but there was no damage to the other side. 4 rounds of 45-70 only made a dent.

The Compressed Earth Block Bullet Proof Test - YouTube

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Old 02-23-2017, 04:02 AM
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The 6.8mm SPC would be the logical next step in the AR action for military use. Basically a shortened and necked down version of the .30 Remington. I was testing the AR-15 platform in 6.8mm before most people even knew about it and was very impressed. I still have a box of the first lot of 6.8mm ammo that Remington made. Some feel the 6.5 Grendel is in the same class, if not superior.

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Old 02-23-2017, 06:42 AM
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As a pure long range/ hunting ctg, the 6.5Grendel is superior.

But people who know more about such things than I, have explained at length why the 6.8SPC is better suited to belt fed. Meaning suitable for upgraded SAW ( or similar weapon) , and hence preferable as a Mil ctg.
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Old 02-23-2017, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-O-Dave View Post
There are a lot of .300 Blackout fans also, and one advantage of the .300 is you only need the upper, and you can use the existing charging handle, bolt and magazines from you 5.56mm AR.
There are a lot of Blackout fans, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why, other than as you said, it fits in the mag well. Ballistically, it's pretty underwhelming, especially in it's original form as the 300 Whisper, which was designed to be used at subsonic levels in a suppressed rifle, for which it's a decent idea. Past that, this writer from All Outdoors sums it up pretty well:

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The high velocity 300 Blackout round is still short of performance compared many similar sized rounds. In fact, compared to the old 30-30 lever action round, the 7.62×39 AK round, or even the .223 68-77gr rounds, the 300 Blackout falls short from a ballistics and energy perspective.

My problem is that once you drop the bullet weight to gain enough powder to make the 300 Blackout supersonic/high-velocity so that it will actually cycle in your average AR-15, you gain nothing over the .223 round. In fact at the 300-yard mark your typical 68-77 gr .223 round will be delivering more energy than that 300-Blackout/Whisper round, and at the muzzle they are nearly identical.

The .223 has proven itself to be an excellent soft target stopper without overpenetration. On steel and thick-hided hogs, the Blackout seems like a winner, but in most other cases the 300 has shown to be a consistently and severely over-penetrating round. There is no way I would risk using the 300 Blackout for home defense. That is perfect for thick skinned hogs at close distances, but not so great for anything else unless you are shooting through barriers–but then again the 7.62×39 AK round is still a better option and far far less expensive.
The 6.8mm has better stats, but I still went with a 308. Everything about the round is easier to find, even in outer Mongolia.
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:18 AM
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It's highly unlikely there will be any change by the U.S. military away from the 5.56mm as its official caliber, at least for the next several decades. There's far too much investment already tied up into 5.56mm ammunition and weapons to abandon it. In banking terms, it's too big to fail. The 6.8mm SPC is clearly superior to the 5.56 in the AR platform, but that is essentially meaningless to the military (except for possibly SO use). The 5.56 does the job they want done for an infantry rifle, and that's that.

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Old 02-23-2017, 09:54 PM
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Knock, knock!

Bet they'll open the door next time!

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Old 02-24-2017, 04:23 PM
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Groo here
The next would be based on the 556 case.
The .25-45 sharps fills the bill.
It will take up to 100gr bullets,25cal,feed through the AR mags, only require a barrel change.
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Old 02-24-2017, 04:59 PM
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If your key need is to shoot through walls, try 338 Lapua. Don't forget ear plugs and muffs!
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Old 02-24-2017, 05:13 PM
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The next thing reasonably would be a 243.
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Old 02-24-2017, 05:40 PM
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...223...5.56 bullets don't have the length and weight necessary to provide the sectional density needed for deep penetration...a 105 grain bullet would be necessary to provide the minimum .300 sectional density of a dangerous game round...and would require a really tight twist to stabilize it...

...a 200 grain bullet is necessary to achieve the same sectional density in a 308...much easier to do...
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Old 02-24-2017, 05:47 PM
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An AR in 6.5 Grendel.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:29 PM
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I'm going to call BS on the article Tom S is quoting.

The author is going by nothing more then paper ballistics, kinetic energy at specific distances.

He's totally ignoring the momentum and mass of the larger bullet vs. the much smaller .223 bullet. Its a know fact the 7.62 Russian round has much greater ballistic affect in the real world despite lower "paper" power.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:45 PM
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LMT offerings: 6.8 SPC. 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 Remington, 243.
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
Lots of folk talk about the .5.56 being under powered, especially against Afghan mud walls.

What is the next round up for putting down the hurt.
If we're talking "oomph" (a nebulous term at best) in combat operations, the question is pretty much irrelevant. The U.S. military isn't going to start issuing this caliber weapon or that caliber weapon to all the troops based on penetration power alone. If that were the case, everyone would be issued Barrett 82A1s.

The subject of the 5.56 being underpowered was discussed at length in this thread.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:19 AM
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In the box? 40mm HEDP from a 203 seemed to work well!
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:29 AM
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Use a grenade over it, possibly a mortar round is all I got.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:34 AM
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Default That's been a debate.....

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No in between 5.56 and .308?
There have been arguments for an intermediate caliber but it's mostly talk since the military isn't open to suggestion. Also, it would be like saying that the 5.56mm isn't good enough and would practically be a replacement for it.



The 6.5 mm caliber gets a lot of support.

I doubt rounds like the .257 Roberts, as good as they are in the field, will be able to meet military requirements. It is also an older cartridge without newer powders in mind, even thought it fires a 6.5 mm bullet.

I believe that the .300 Blackout is to be used in the M4, and is similar to the AK-47 round
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:41 AM
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7.62X39. I built my AR in that round mainly to save in ammo cost and couldn't be happier. The ballistics within range (450 yds or less) is very accurate and has more knock down power and penetration (especially the steel core stuff) than the 5.56 round. I have yet to have a jam and I shoot serbian ammo, mostly golden tiger and silver bear, thousands of rounds down the tube. CPD mags are the most reliable for the AR platform chambered in that round. Plus I don't have to buy two different calibers for my AK and AR
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Old 03-01-2017, 01:32 AM
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Notice whats doing the long distance work and whats slung :









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Old 03-01-2017, 03:35 AM
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What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph What is next chambering after 5.56 that has enough oomph  
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Absolutely! They needed to pull M-14s from Navy storage and have the CMP Garrand experts teach the proper technique for long range M1a/M14 marksmanship. They found 5.56 might be accurate at 400 meters, but didn't do much when it hit.
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Notice whats doing the long distance work and whats slung :








Do you think they got those big old rifles through the CMP
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:52 AM
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My .300 Blackout Sig MCX.

I like the .30 caliber for all my tactical weapons. A Ruger Mini 30 preceded it.

A Ruger SR762 is my battle tactical for more power with the same bullet.

I like the .243 6mm for long range varmints so I have a Ruger Precision Rifle w/ 24" barrel. Also a Shaw custom bolt action in .243 for a gun I can actually carry in the field.

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Old 03-01-2017, 07:11 PM
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What are the chances of an intermediate round actually being adopted and used by the military?
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:14 PM
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Default As much fun as it is to speculate....

What are the chances of an intermediate round actually being adopted and used by the military?
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
bushmaster1313 wrote:
Would .243 or .257 Roberts do the job?
What job?

If the job you are talking about is killing someone, the .223 Remington is more than capable of doing that at ranges out to about 300 meters.

As a result of the Hague Convention, military ammunition is not allowed to expand on impact. In every signatory country this has been accomplished with some sort of fully jacketed round. The objective was to make war more humane by not killing the adversary, but rather inflicting a casualty that required more resources applied more urgently to remove from the battlefield than dispose of a corpse.

When you read reports from war zones of a single shot from a military rifle not killing someone, keep in mind THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING. For hunting and self-defense, we use soft point or hollow pointed bullets that do expand on impact and produce larger, more disabling wounds than their full metal jacket military counterparts.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:17 PM
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I have always favored the 105 Howitzer. Properly fused they are very versatile. Fell in love with them in SE Asia in the earky 70's. Easier to tote around is the 7.62X51....... also considerably more economical to fire.
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