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Old 03-11-2017, 11:25 AM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is offline
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Default New Defense Ammo??

Was in a LGS yesterday and owner showed me what he said was a new defense cartridge for .38. Forget the brand but it was a 50gr hp in an aluminum case. Said on box slightly over 1000 fps.
Said also available in other calibers. The bullet looked to be aluminum as well but can't be sure. He said they were awesome fired at water filled jugs. Anyone heard of these or tried them?
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:33 AM
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You're telling me they've upped the velocity of what's basically a .25 ACP by about 200 fps and that's supposed to be totally awesome?

If you were ever an IPSC competitor, you will realize the power factor of this load is right around 50. The power floor (minor) to even be allowed to compete in USPSA competition is 125, and major power factor is currently 165.

No thank you.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:43 AM
CTG_COLLECTOR CTG_COLLECTOR is offline
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Sounds like Liberty Ammunition's Civil Defense.

Liberty Ammunition Lead Free Ammo | Liberty Ammunition
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:16 PM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is offline
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That's what it was. Recognize the box. I was thinking an aluminum hp only 50gr would lose energy real fast even with the high velocity. Maybe at close range it might be ok. Can't imagine it doing much at any distance.
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Old 03-12-2017, 01:01 AM
hostler hostler is offline
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So its ballistics are somewhere between a really slow 223 and a really fast 22lr, maybe 22wmr?
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:04 AM
Brasky Brasky is offline
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A 50gr 38? No thanks probably has 6-7" of penetration
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:48 AM
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Or even better is some double 0 buck.

Friends don't let friends buy a Taurus
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Old 03-12-2017, 05:35 AM
V0OBWxZS16 V0OBWxZS16 is offline
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Fragmenting pistol ammo and under-penetrating ammo is bad.

Before asking "What ammo should I use?" you should ask "What should ammo do, what shouldn't it do, and how is it tested?" I recommend the following:
Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness from the Firearms Training Unit of the FBI
Basic Wound Ballistic Terminal Performance Facts by Dr. Roberts (DocGKR)
Ordnance gelatin test assessment for rifle and pistol calibers by Dr. Roberts (DocGKR)
What's Wrong With The Wound Ballistics Literature And Why by Dr. Fackler

For specific recommendations I start here:
Service Caliber Handgun Duty and Self-Defense Ammo by Dr. Roberts (DocGKR)
Then here (for 9mm and 380):
9mm Ammo Quest on Youtube by ShootingTheBull410
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:39 PM
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So you are saying that company has finally got the idea of selling
a very light "Mosquito Bullet" at a high speed to try to penetrate
human ski, muscle and bone, to get to a persons vitals.

They are probably working on a 20gr .22 LR load at 1600fps as we speak !!
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:26 PM
shouldazagged shouldazagged is offline
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Thanks, but I'll stick with 158 grains of LSWCHP .38 Special, lumbering along at about 860 fps.

The Liberty stuff looks like one more gimmick to this old-school gent. But then there were probably a lot of Luddite geezers who said the same thing when the FBI load came out fifty years or so ago.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:07 PM
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Sometimes the old .38 special 158 gr lead round nose looks pretty good compared to these trendy "ballistic adventure" ammo choices...
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Old 03-16-2017, 03:14 AM
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Was it a 50gr bullet or 150gr bullet?

What good is a 50gr bullet in a .38 Special. Even the 32 Auto uses a 60gr bullet.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:24 PM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
Was it a 50gr bullet or 150gr bullet?

What good is a 50gr bullet in a .38 Special. Even the 32 Auto uses a 60gr bullet.
. It is a 50 grain
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amcline82 View Post
Or even better is some double 0 buck.

Friends don't let friends buy a Taurus
It is much better and safer than flying ValuJet.
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:28 AM
Irn-Bru Irn-Bru is offline
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That's just gonna make some you shoot with that ammo real mad.
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:07 AM
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I have always been suspect of the gelatin tests. There is muscle, bone, clothing, glass, drywall, etc in between the barrel and vital organs. It looks great to shoot into a block of ballistic gelatin and watch it bounce around but, real life is a little different.

Location, location, location

Last edited by IAM Rand; 03-22-2017 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:32 PM
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Lead free so they can be sold in area's than ban lead. Not better, just some " tricky " ammo that can be sold in CA.
If it were really better , the ammo co.'s would have been using it before now. Lead still #1 .
Gary
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  #18  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:38 PM
hkcavalier hkcavalier is offline
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I don't "get" the Liberty line. The super high velocity/fragments after a couple inches of penetration idea was debunked way back in the '80s. All you gain is reduced recoil.

Sure, a light .44 Magnum is fine...because you know you're going to get the penetration anyway.
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Old 03-26-2017, 07:21 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
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50 grain moving 1500 fps .. would that be fast enough to cause the round to tumble on contact ??
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:25 PM
hkcavalier hkcavalier is offline
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They're designed to rapidly expand and fragment. I suppose if it was an FMJ it might tumble.

The ONLY use for this ammo, as far as I can tell, is for a fixed sight gun that shoots very high with standard ammo. Liberty would at least get you on target.
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