Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Ammo
o

Notices

Ammo All Ammo Discussions Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-15-2017, 05:23 PM
Breakaway500's Avatar
Breakaway500 Breakaway500 is online now
Member
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Whiskey Hill Ma.
Posts: 2,788
Likes: 16,105
Liked 9,037 Times in 1,961 Posts
Default .41 rimfire long?

While at my FFL the other day,he showed me a box of very old rimfire ammo someone had brought in. He said it was .38 rimfire,but it's not. (I have an old Bacon revolver in .38 rimfire so I always look for ammo for it)
No markings on the box,no lid. The cartridge measures just under an inch long (.990") and just about .407" in diameter,so I'm thinking it must be .41 rimfire long..from what I have seen online,but not much info is available.The cartridge has a raised H in the middle,which seems to indicate Winchester manufacture,but not confirmed.
Anyone have any ideas as to what this round fits? I paid him $40 for the box assuming it would fit my Bacon,and I can return it..but chances are it will then end up in the trash. What to do?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CIMG5652.jpg (127.2 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG5654.jpg (104.1 KB, 70 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG5655.jpg (98.0 KB, 56 views)
__________________
My Daddy was a pistol..

Last edited by Breakaway500; 03-15-2017 at 07:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-15-2017, 05:55 PM
ammodave ammodave is online now
Member
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Niceville, Fl
Posts: 230
Likes: 8
Liked 62 Times in 36 Posts
Default

Sounds like .41 short rimfire .41 Short - Wikipedia
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-15-2017, 06:01 PM
Breakaway500's Avatar
Breakaway500 Breakaway500 is online now
Member
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Whiskey Hill Ma.
Posts: 2,788
Likes: 16,105
Liked 9,037 Times in 1,961 Posts
Default

The .41 rimfire short is...shorter, at .913" in length. These are .990" long. A couple of these show signs of a extremely light strike at 12 and 6 o'clock. I think I read somewhere a Henry repeater had two firing pins for the .41 rimfire? I imagine someone started to use this box with a malfunctioning weapon,figured the cartridges were no good,and either gave them away/traded or put them aside and never touched them again (not to be trusted). Just a guess...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CIMG5659.jpg (57.0 KB, 20 views)
__________________
My Daddy was a pistol..

Last edited by Breakaway500; 03-15-2017 at 07:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:43 PM
Alk8944's Avatar
Alk8944 Alk8944 is offline
Member
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sandy Utah
Posts: 8,616
Likes: 1,554
Liked 8,611 Times in 3,452 Posts
Default

Based on case proportions, length/diameter, these appear to be .41 Long rimfire. You cannot base identification on overall length as maximum/minimum lengths for the short and long actually overlap. The long/short designation is strictly based on case length!

Per Suydam the .LOA for the .41 short ranges from .890" to 1.002" for the samples he had. The long LOA ranges from .962" to 1.140", again for the samples he measured.

Henry rifles were never chambered for either .41 cartridge but the .44 Henry. So all the two strikes probably mean is two separate attempts to fire were tried and just happened to be opposed by ca. 180 degrees. The "H" headstamp has always indicated Winchester manufacture, The letter commemorates B. Tyler Henry, who was Winchester's chief engineer and I believe foreman.

On a round item like a cartridge how can you determine that a mark on the rim is at 6 o'clock, 12 o'clock, or any other position?
__________________
Gunsmithing since 1961
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-15-2017, 10:19 PM
Breakaway500's Avatar
Breakaway500 Breakaway500 is online now
Member
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Whiskey Hill Ma.
Posts: 2,788
Likes: 16,105
Liked 9,037 Times in 1,961 Posts
Default

The strikes are equally opposed..so 12 and 6. Or 3 and 9...etc. There are 3 or 4 like that..at the end of the box. Maybe someone put these in a .44 rimfire and attempted to fire them? I don't know..just guessing. I think I'll keep them..just in case I come across a .41 long rimfire gun.Got to be one out there..
__________________
My Daddy was a pistol..

Last edited by Breakaway500; 03-15-2017 at 10:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-15-2017, 10:55 PM
StakeOut's Avatar
StakeOut StakeOut is offline
US Veteran
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: NW of Austin Texas
Posts: 3,090
Likes: 1,351
Liked 4,938 Times in 1,730 Posts
Default

Dixie Gun Works sells new production Navy Arms.41 Short box of 50 for $55 while the same Navy Arms ammo on GB is bidding at $137.Go figure?
__________________
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-16-2017, 06:58 AM
Breakaway500's Avatar
Breakaway500 Breakaway500 is online now
Member
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Whiskey Hill Ma.
Posts: 2,788
Likes: 16,105
Liked 9,037 Times in 1,961 Posts
Default

GB is basically like Ebay..prices can get so far from reality all you can do is shake your head..
__________________
My Daddy was a pistol..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-16-2017, 10:01 AM
desi2358 desi2358 is offline
Member
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 35,815
Liked 917 Times in 487 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StakeOut View Post
Dixie Gun Works sells new production Navy Arms.41 Short box of 50 for $55 while the same Navy Arms ammo on GB is bidding at $137.Go figure?
How old is your Dixie catalog? They don't show that ammo on their website (or on Navy Arms own website or Old Western Scrounger which they own) and I haven't seen that ammo available anywhere except as old stock for years. Reportedly the last run of that ammo was made in the late 90's and after it finally sold out Navy Arms decided not to contract for any more. I would love to hear that they had more made as I have several old guns I would be able to shoot a little more often if new ammo was available (especially at more affordable prices).
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-16-2017, 10:05 AM
desi2358 desi2358 is offline
Member
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 35,815
Liked 917 Times in 487 Posts
Default

To the OP, pretty much any obsolete rim fire round has become at least somewhat collectible. The 41 Long was intended primarily for guns such as the Colt House series revolvers and I am sure you would have no trouble finding someone interested in it as a collectible. Not really shooter ammo anyway as it ceased production a long time ago.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-16-2017, 04:21 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,480
Likes: 236
Liked 28,942 Times in 14,013 Posts
Default

COTW says the .41 Long RF was used by the Colt New Line revolvers. "The Enterprise #4, Favorite #4, Forehand & Wadsworth, Webley, and other revolvers were available in this caliber. A few cheap single shot rifles also chambered it. It has been obsolete since the 1920s."

The .41 Short RF was used principally in various Derringers, such as the Remington Double Derringer.

COTW gives the case lengths of the .41 Short RF and .41 Long RF as .467" and .635" respectively. Both have case diameters of .406"-.407". I'd bet you have a box of .41 Long RF. Too bad you don't have the full cardboard box.

Last edited by DWalt; 03-16-2017 at 04:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-16-2017, 04:30 PM
StakeOut's Avatar
StakeOut StakeOut is offline
US Veteran
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: NW of Austin Texas
Posts: 3,090
Likes: 1,351
Liked 4,938 Times in 1,730 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desi2358 View Post
How old is your Dixie catalog? They don't show that ammo on their website (or on Navy Arms own website or Old Western Scrounger which they own) and I haven't seen that ammo available anywhere except as old stock for years. Reportedly the last run of that ammo was made in the late 90's and after it finally sold out Navy Arms decided not to contract for any more. I would love to hear that they had more made as I have several old guns I would be able to shoot a little more often if new ammo was available (especially at more affordable prices).
You may be right that they are out of stock.You find it out only when checking out.

Dixie Gun Works muzzleloading, blackpowder and rare antique gun supplies.

Dixie Gun Works muzzleloading, blackpowder and rare antique gun supplies.
__________________
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Last edited by StakeOut; 03-16-2017 at 04:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-16-2017, 05:48 PM
cadmike cadmike is offline
Member
.41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long? .41 rimfire long?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 666
Likes: 242
Liked 1,324 Times in 444 Posts
Default

Well regardless it would be a shame for that ammo to end up in the trash. If you post a want to sell add here on the forum it would surely sell.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Long long time ago.... A buddy's find in a antique-furniture-shop Swissman The Lounge 14 02-07-2014 09:44 AM
HELLP?!: Long Rifle vs. Rimfire GlockBurg Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 6 02-20-2013 10:45 PM
WTS: .32 Rimfire long for display/collection dbarale Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 2 03-20-2012 02:56 PM
I haven't laughed this hard in a long, long time. LazarusLong The Lounge 34 03-13-2010 11:12 AM
.32 Long Rimfire Ammo gunlovingirl WANTED to Buy 7 07-21-2009 11:54 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:00 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)