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Old 03-21-2017, 09:28 PM
Brasso4 Brasso4 is offline
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Default .38 Hollow Base Wadcutters...

What's the word on these for self defense? I remember a few years ago people were loading them backwards. Is that still a thing? Has anyone ever gel tested them for performance?

It just seems that a good 158gr hp load is hard to find these days. Remington has cancelled so many good bullets lately.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:31 PM
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Compared to today's modern, commercially loaded self defense ammo, like the bullets produced by Federal and Speer, for instance, wadcutters are worthless.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:47 PM
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They're more of a target bullet than self defense. You certainly can load them backwards but there are much better options out there. The soft swaged bullets aren't meant for high velocities.

I wouldn't want to get shot with one but it'd be about my last choice for a self defense bullet.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:37 PM
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Many folks feel they are viable defense rounds in their normal orientation due to their blunt profile.


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Old 03-21-2017, 10:39 PM
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That's about what I figured.

Thanks.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:43 PM
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Theoretically, there is an argument in favor of the 38 HBWC or a regular wadcutter. The best argument in favor of the wadcutter is the large metplat of the wadcutter, which should induce a fair amount of shock to whatever is on the receiving end of the bullet. Realistically, the sharp corners of the bullet should punch a nice hole in soft tissue, which should bleed profusely.

However, in the world of high velocity and hollow points, there is little advocated market for the old, slow target loads. But, for people that are recoil sensitive, that have weak wrists, or arthritis that can handle the recoil of a target wadcutter, this is the round for them. Yes, they can be slow to reload, but the recoil is manageable and multiple shots can be placed on target!
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:50 PM
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There are good 158 grain loads out there. I carry Buffalo Bore's standard-pressure LSWCHP-GC, which clocks just about identically with the good old +P Remington FBI load, before they watered theirs down. The +P Buffalo Bore 158gr. LSWCHP-GC is a real thumper for .38 Special, almost low-end .357 velocity.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:01 PM
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This load was once considered as an effective way to increase the stopping power of the .38 spcial round. I doubt it really made any difference, but looks real nasty. Some time back I had a friend who reloads whip up some for me - just for fun.

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Old 03-22-2017, 12:28 AM
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Some believe the "Sharpe edge" of a HBwc backwards would cut
a nice large hole while penetrating.

Remember, this is a soft, swaged bullet, which corners will be reduced with contact
with a jacket or heavy clothing, even before it reaches the skin.....
plus they have been known to "Plug" with material on gel test.

They have stopped BG's over time.........
but there are much better modern, high tech. bullets I would use to protect my life with.
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:01 AM
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Ed Harris has the answer:

Ed Harris: Revisiting The Full Charge Wadcutter. - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com

I have used the Full Charge Wadcutter on edible small game and it works extremely well.

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Old 03-22-2017, 02:27 AM
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It seems to me when you invert the hollow base wad cutter and use the same COAL you are drastically reducing chamber volume which increases pressure. Be careful

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Old 03-22-2017, 02:28 AM
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The argument for the full wadcutter and semi wadcutter for self defense in 38 is as viable as its ever been, because of the problem of user error. In order for the 38 Special to effectively employ a hollow point, high power and heavier weight are needed, i.e. 135+ grains and +p pressure loads. The truth is, there is a slew of what is honestly total garbage being put on the market today, and the 110 and 125 grain hollow points have always been, and are still today, trash, and not a real choice for self defense. We end up with people who carry 38 Special, carry very light and small 38 Special revolvers, and want to shoot very low recoiling ammunition. Where does that leave us?

It leaves us with a situation where they are tempted to use the light weight hollow points, which aren't a real choice. It means people will eventually quit carrying and training with +p, and they will carry light loads or at best strong regular pressure loads. So, we reach a point where we have to recommend a bullet and load to someone who refuses to shoot full power, regular weight hollow points. We end up with few options for these people.

If you are going to shoot a snub 38 and use regular power, or light power, ammunition, then the wadcutter is arguably the best choice available, because it will penetrate consistently and crush tissue because of its big dull shape. The other options are 158 and 170 SWC, or I think for personal, not police carry, the old 200 grain loads were a better performer int he 150-180 ft. lbs. range that regular to light loads in short barrels produce. Better a penetrating, consistent bullet, than a light, fast, low power hollow point that is at its best NOT expanding, and not performing well even when it doesn't.

I don't recommend anyone shooting anything less than a +p 38 Special, but knowing people don't listen and are tempted to always shoot lighter, then I'll tell them to shoot WC or SWC. Same thing with 9mm vs 380, you tell folks "9mm is the baseline, don't go underneath 9mm Luger" and they get a 380 anyways, and then your ammunition and bullet recommendation goes back to non expanding bullets to perform well. Its a fact of life in this field that people shoot lighter, and our recommendations change to meet that, wither we really like it or not.

I'll take a 170 Keith or a 148 WC over a 125 grain Hollow point from any maker at any +p loading any day of the week. Its not "go big or go home", its "Go big and powerful, or go without hollow points altogether".
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:19 PM
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Back in the 70's I had the good fortune to spend my free shooting days at a range I belonged to on the same day as Fairchild AFB's Security Police. I got to take part in one of their shoot-offs with a rival British AP unit that traded FN L1A1 to our guys and their M16s, I was just filling in on a three part string and got to shoot open sights at 600yds. Somehow they found out that I shot quite a bit of .38 special and when all was said and done one of the guys handed me a coffee can full of 38 special rounds. I looked inside the can and they all were inverted hollow base wadcutters. I asked the guy what they were for and he said they load 158gr HBWC over 3.2 grns of Red Dot for their duty revolvers which were little K framed Smiths as I remember. He told me that they delivered the most bang for the buck in a small framed .38, I always thought they looked pretty wicked and were very accurate to shoot.
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Old 03-27-2017, 07:54 PM
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I used them in the gun I kept by the bed and also my wife's. In the 70's not to much choice. Dead accurate to 20-25' and expanded to .70+ in second chance vest Kevlar. Would not go through six walls and take out my tax deductions. 4.0 Unique
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Old 03-27-2017, 08:55 PM
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I can tell you that a HB wadcutter is most impressive when shooting a water soaked phone book, knocking it backwards for several feet. Yes it's been a while since this was demonstrated, after all when is the last time you saw a large thick phone book....if I recall about 5 grains of Unique was used.
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Old 03-27-2017, 09:21 PM
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I remember when loading hbwc was a hit topic back in the 70's. Recently for giggles I loaded some up with my normal 2.7 gr of bullseye. Shot a few in a cobra derringer and they keyholed at 10-15 feet. Looked wicked on targets but don't think they would be very effective. Not sure anything would be effective out of a derringer except something that would punch a big hole. At the same time I shot a few out of a 4" mod19 into a few old fence posts that were old, but neither front or backward hbwc would completely penetrate. The wood did split enough to dig them out and suprising to me, neither showed hardly any expansion. The regular loaded hbwc looked like they just went in and stopped. Think I could have loaded again. The backward loaded ones actually looked like they collapsed instead of expanding. I know this is not any sort of defense test, but did find it interesting at lack of much deformation of either being that soft and hitting wood
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Old 03-27-2017, 09:27 PM
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You can speed these up.
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