I stopped by WM last week and took a look. Only a few boxes of Perfecta in the case, and there were 2 less after I left
$15.44 a box for brass-cased 45 ACP FMJ was good enough that I couldn't pass it up.

I sold 22 boxes of 9mm Perfecta yesterday that was sitting at the bottom of my safe.I have more than enough to last a while.

My 3 local Walmarts haven't had any Prefecta ammo for a few months.It's very popular in this area.The 30-06 and 40S&W were the last to go.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I compare the prices on ammoseek to what the LGS is getting! In stock ammo, guns, magazines, and reloading supplies

CheaperThanDirt! is still selling it. I just got a e-mail from them.

I think the reason he was looking for perfecta is because Wally's was closing it out and he was hoping to get some at a bargain price.

CTD is one of those places I won't buy from unless it is something I absolutely have to get and I can't find it anywhere else - even if CTD is cheaper. They are opportunistic scum who take advantage of every shortage to price gouge.

You may not like their pricing model, but there is no such thing as gouging. You either willingly pay the seller for an item or you don't. NO one is forcing you to pay what you perceive as a high price.

Um, actually, what they have done repeatedly is cancel people's pending orders - saying that the merchandise is not available - and then re-list the same merchandise at 50% to 100% markup within a day or two. This was a particularly common practice for them during some of the ammo shortages following mass-shootings.

IMO that is unethical and amounts to gouging. That is the kind of stuff that keeps me from buying from them. And it is not a one or two time occurrence either. It is a pattern of behavior with CTD. Google it.

Like I said I don't buy from them, and I am not bashful about explaining why. Others can do with that information what they will.

Point in fact, you're incorrect.
'Price gouging' exists (hence the existence of the term). You don't get to deny something exists, just because you don't personally find it's practice to be objectionable.
This "logic" is not much different than denying a murder took place, because "he needed killin'."
When a gas station during a disaster quadruples the price of their gas, and charges $5 for a bottle of water, obviously they're not forcing anyone at gunpoint to buy their goods, but it still IS price gouging.

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Unrepentant magna hater !!

These practices constitute, at the very least, some form of fraud. I don't consider it gouging; I consider it theft.

I haven't opened a CTD catalog or email since Sandy Hook.

Well, theft is stealing someone else's property so that doesn't fit this situation either.
It is more like lying and/or going back on your word. After having agreed on a price to sell an item for then backing out of the deal so you can sell it to someone else for more is dishonest.
I referred to it as gouging because in every case they marked the item up to an extreme degree due to a sudden increase in demand or reduction in the supply.
Whatever you want to call it, the practice is unethical.
I don't do business with people or companies like that, and I tell others about it when I learn that someone or a company does business that way.

Gouging doesn't work so long as the purchaser has alternative sources at a lower price. Many economists defend the practice of "price gouging" in emergency situations as it quickly and efficiently brings supply and demand back into normal balance.

No one is required to buy anything from CTD, as there are many available alternative ammunition sources.

Well, no kidding. Obviously a gouger isn't going to ask ludicrous prices for his products, if the guy across the street has plenty of it at regular price.
The gouging that's being discussed was what CTD did when hi-cap mags turned into unobtanium.



This is completely ridiculous. As long as there is shortage of supply, those that possess a necessary good can charge whatever they want, for as long as they want. What brings supply & demand back into balance is normalization of supply and the re-emergence of the goods that were experiencing the shortage.
The only possible way for this statement to be true would be if outside people hoping to capitalize on the panic-prices, come rushing in with their goods, also hoping to make a killing, and end up flooding the market, and even then, this still wouldn't be a rational defense of gouging.


Again, no kidding. We're talking about when there AREN'T numerous alternatives, and how operations like CDT treat their customer base, gladly taking advantage of a calamity, solely for their short-term financial benefit.
From what I've read, for years now, CDT has alienated a great many people, with their greedy, short-sighted "buisness model", and people are merely voting with their wallets, as is their right.

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Unrepentant magna hater !!

Unethical? Yes. Bad business model? Absolutely. Violating some possible form of a contract? Good possibility. Gouging? No.


This is geared more to the folks who talk about gouging during a hurricane, but the parallels are there.

"This is completely ridiculous. As long as there is shortage of supply, those that possess a necessary good can charge whatever they want, for as long as they want. What brings supply & demand back into balance is normalization of supply and the re-emergence of the goods that were experiencing the shortage."

It's not ridiculous at all. Just google "defense of price gouging" and you will find dozens of very soundly reasoned discussions as to why it is not as evil as most make it out to be. I won't provide any links to other sites, as doing so has now become taboo on this forum.

Anyone can defend these practices all they want and call them anything they want. Nobody or any argument they can make is going to convince me that thia behavior is morally defensible.

The only logical reason I can see for anyone defending this type of thing as OK is if they are the type of person who would do the same themselves given the opportunity.

I certainly hope that isn't true of anyone around here, though sadly it probably is.

When tragedy causes a short supply of a commodity and someone doubles or triples the price to take advantage of it as a result, that is gouging and it is morally wrong IMO - I don't give a fig what economists say. I flatly refuse to do business with people like that. It is well documented that CTD is one such entity.

I knew you were going to respond with a falacious appeal to The Experts, and actually starting typing a pre-rebuttal in my above post, but deleted it in the interest of brevity.
The point I'd started to make was that it was a bunch of 'sound reasoning' Ivy League financial geniuses whose efforts and expertise put this country into eventual insolvency and bankruptcy, having saddled us with a compounding-interest debt that is mathmatically impossible for us to ever dig out from under. The fact that these traitorous, ivory-tower clowns are cited all over Google, doesn't add much to their credibility (especially when they're demonstrably wrong).
As for CTD and others price 'gouging', it's irrelevant whether it's "as evil" as people think, the fact is that they've alienated a surprisingly number of their clientele.
They took the quick-profit route, and here we are, years later, still listening to people say they'll never spend another dime at CTD.
And, the fact that the panics have since subsided, has ZERO to do with the gouging that they and other companies engaged in.
The market caught up on it's own, despite them, not because of them.


BTW, and back on topic, I (seriously) found about 1/2 a box of Perfecta 9mm in my trunk yesterday.
So, given that it's been discontinued at WM....first 50 bucks takes it !!!

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Unrepentant magna hater !!

It always puts a smile on my face when I see discussions about cheap factory ammo. I use BE Mike ammo. It is of higher quality, has a huge variety of loads, is always available and is a LOT cheaper than ammo at WalMart.

And it never fails to put a smirk on my face when the reloaders condescendengly lecture the rest of us about how wonderful reloading is.
You know, some folks don't have the spare bucks to get started with the whole endeavor, or don't have the space to set up a reloading operation, or don't really shoot enough to justify it, or just don't want to deal with the headache of learning the whole process, and don't mind hunting the deals on perfectly fine factory ammo.
Also, I have a couple freinds that reload, and I've seen them go completely bone dry when the components dry up (yeah, I know, the "solution" is to simply fill a couple closets with a lifetime supply of primers and stuff!! )
Don't misunderstand, sure, reloading is great, I grasp the obvious advantages, and so does everyone else, but we also get real tired of this endless, self-congratulatory gloating we get from reloaders, on every single gun forum, going back as far as I can remember. Get over yourselves already.

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Unrepentant magna hater !!

Three sentences? Must be the shortest "lecture" in history.
Wound a little tight today maybe?

Yeah, prolly so.

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Unrepentant magna hater !!

Several years ago some idiot, I mean California politician, suggested limiting possession of ammunition to only 10 cartridges per firearm. If the maximum magazine capacity was 10, then why should anyone need more than 10? One of the many reasons why I left California.

In 1974, I bought a Lee Loader, 100 primers, and 100 bullets so I could reload a couple of boxes of hunting loads per year. I kept it in the top drawer of my dresser and did the actual loading on the basement floor.

I found that I could squeeze in enough time to load them between classes, studying, a part time job, and everything else that poor college students do including chasing the opposite sex. It was cheap enough that I could actually shoot a couple of extra boxes a year, but one thing lead to another and I ended up shooting enough that I needed a RockChucker press to keep my reloading time the same. I kept everything in a large tool chest in a corner of the basement. My reloading and shooting has spiraled out of control until today I need a 8x12ft room for the equipment and components.

It's fine with me if you don't wish to reload, but there are more arguments for reloading than against. I have found over the years that factory ammunition dries up before components. You will have enough time to pick up a few primers, bullets, and some powder if you choose to without filling up a closet if you pay attention to supply and demand. Bottom line is if you snooze you lose. Works for both ammunition and components.

Look, I'm not critical of reloading, nor do I underestimate it's value, not at all. Me and virtually everyone are well aware of the benefit and practicality. OK??
My point is that I get sick and tired of reloaders always chiming in to threads that were asking about factory ammo, and that had ZERO to do with reloading, and using it as a platform to condescendingly give themselves a big pat on the back for being so clever and thrifty.
So what! Who cares! We all get it !! You guys pay a fraction per round that over-the-counter buyers do, and you've earned it, no dispute whatsoever there.
But why are the reloaders (on every gun forum I've ever been on, going back years) so compelled to inject their smug, chortling, self-congratulatory statements of the obvious, especially in unrelated threads where nobody asked you?

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Unrepentant magna hater !!

I think the answer is that we want to encourage others to give it a try and join us in the hobby. Just like sharing our pleasure of firearms and shooting with those who don't own or shoot guns.

Nothing smug or condescending about it. Just extolling the benefits to encourage others to give it a try.

You may know and recognize the benefits, but not everyone does. So since you recognize all the reasons and benefits of reloading, instead of assuming the worst about us reloaders and chastising us for what you perceive as an attitude issue, join us instead.

Once you enjoy the benefits of it yourself firsthand you may find yourself trying to encourage others to try it too....