I mainly reload 38 special, but occasionally I load some 357 too. I noticed on my last batch of 357 that there was a small ring around the base of most of my cases. At first I thought it was an issue with my resizing die, but after some checking and experimentation, I found that new cases were coming out of my guns with the ring already in place, and when I resized them, it made the ring more defined. Attached is a picture of a new unfired Federal 158 gr JSP, and a once-fired Federal case from both my Henry rifle and S&W model 19. I never have this issue with 38 special from either gun. What might cause this? It makes the brass mostly unusable for reloading for my Model 19 since they won't fit in the cylinders smoothly, and get stuck once fired.

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New gun owner? Usually are with this question.

Both chambers and cartridge cases have a tolerance range of approximately .006". They do not overlap, and when a cartridge is fired the case expands to fill the chamber, all but the 3/16" or so that is the solid head of the case. The ring you see is at the web of the case, between the solid portion that doesn't expand and the thin body that does expand. If you look closely every fired cartridge case will have this expansion ring, every one! The degree to which it is obvious varies depending on which end of the tolerance range the chamber and cartridge case fall. Maximum case and minimum dimension chamber will show very little, but it is there. Minimum case in a maximum dimension chamber and the difference in diameter at this point can be .012" or slightly more, depending on the specific cartridge.

High pressure cartridges will show a better defined, more abrupt, ring than moderate pressure cartridges like .38 Spl. and .32 S&W Long, but it is always there. It is even on relatively low pressure cartridges like .32 S&W, and any other cartridge that was originally loaded as a black powder cartridge.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Alk8944 +1

Well, now the million dollar question. Is there any way to smooth this back out? If I try to put a reload made from these back into my model 19, they stick, but will snap into place if I force them. Once fired, they won't come back out without hitting the ejector rod with a piece of wood. They work fine in the Henry.

Try turning your sizing die in a bit more. You are not full-length sizing the brass.

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Pisgah

The brass in the picture are fresh from the guns. They've not been sized. When I size my brass, I use a Lee carbide die, adjusted all the way to the shell holder, and then backed off about the thickness of a piece of paper. It just emphasizes the ring, and seems to make it more pronounced.

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In all the many 1000s of .357s I have loaded I have never experienced anything like this. Do you possibly know someone who reloads .357 and can try their sizing die? It sounds like you have adjusted your die properly but maybe try taking out the 'thickness of a sheet of paper' and adjusting it so it just touches the shell holder and see what happens. Probably won't make much difference but if the problem still exists then I would consider calling Lee and see what they say. If you have a caliper you might try seeing what the inside of the die measures near the base.

If the case is sticking in the die a little bit it can push the case down and expand the ring rather than just sliding smoothly. Try lubing your cases when you resize if you don't now.

I have a resizing die that came with a 38 SC/LC die set that's marked 38/357. I may try it instead of the one that came with my 38/357 set next time. I'll definitely measure the base opening on both dies.

I typically lube my 357 and 30 carbine. Not so much with 38 special. But I'm not having trouble with 38. I have noticed that some seem really hard, and others seem soft. Next time I'll make sure they're lubed really good and see what that does. I've been using the Lee toothpaste tube type straight. Is their better to use?

Hopefully I'll get this sorted out. It's a pain not being able to use my 357 reloads.

Don't like 'em, don't like 'em............don't like 'em.

Even if I can reload them, I still don't like 'em.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Well I don't us ANY case lube with 38/357 loading with my RCBS carbide die - however I give my cases a preliminary cleaning prior to sizing.

If you do not have a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die yet buy one. In spite of the constant complaints about this die (most are total BS "I read it on the internet" remarks), they do have a very good use. Use just the die body as a full-length sizer either before or after sizing your cases with the standard die. The CFC die has a very tight radius on the size ring and it will size farther down the case, clear past the expansion ring. This will size the case to approximately maximum case dimension. Then "neck size" the case with the regular carbide sizer. This does add a step, but what do wish to accomplish, quick, slap-dash reloading, or quality? You decide. This reduces sizing of the case body and may extend case life, except for mouth splits.

There is a problem using a standard carbide sizer as a full-length die, and that is raising a ring at the base of the case from trying to size the solid portion of the case. This is what you are doing from what you describe, and from the description of the problems you are having. At the very least back the die off the shell holder about 1/8", like the die instructions tell you, and the sticking from the raised ring will go away, except for cases you already have damaged. You will need the CFC sizer to fix them.

Read this, Someone else posted this years ago and I stole it because it explains the over-sizing so well!:

“Don’t Resize More Than Needed"
Carbide sizing dies can create a ring or slight bottleneck effect ahead of the rim that is largely a cosmetic problem but could eventually overwork the brass. Resizing for most revolvers needs only to make the case small enough for reliable chambering and a good bullet grip. Not all combinations of dies and cartridge cases will suffer this ringing, but the first time it happened to me, I didn’t like the effect.
I’m not talking neck-sizing. We’re going to size most of the case, but set the die so it’s not as close to nearly touching the shellholder as normally prescribed. Typical instructions for carbide sizer dies have you turn the die into the press until it is about the thickness of a matchbook cover from touching the shellholder. I’ve found that leaving the die as far as 1/4 inch from the shellholder reduces the ringing effect without affecting reliable chambering. Your gauge for checking this is your revolver’s cylinder; have it handy while setting your sizer die.”


Does this sound familiar? Believe it or not, us "Old Farts" that have been reloading most of our lives have learned a thing or two over the years.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Thanks for the info. I have a carbide factory crimp die. I'll give it a try.

I was able to salvage about 40 out of 50 of these pieces of brass by running them through the factory crimp die. I did have to run the case through on top of the shell holder to get it deep enough to smooth the ring, and then twist the adjustment screw to back the case back out. A few times I had to use a pair of pliers to get enough torque to get the case back out.

On the other hand, I tried some unsized brass with both of my sizer dies, and left as much room between the shell holder and sizer as possible that would still decap the case. This produced the same results with cases sticking when I would insert them back into my model 19. They would go almost all the way in, but would fail to seat properly (just enough to cause the cylinder not to close and lock). I could snap them into place, but that would make it hard to eject them back out.

I'm at a loss to explain it. I don't think two different guns would produce factory cases with pressure bulges big enough to make the brass unusable. I also don't think cases from three different boxes of federal ammo would be defective. Likewise, I don't think two different Lee 357 sizing dies would be defective. That leaves me at the gun. Could it be possible that the cylinders are so tight that nothing but factory ammo would fit? I've scrubbed the cylinders with a brass brush and Hoppes, and them swabbed them until a dry patch comes out clean. Holding it up to the light, they look slick and clean, and don't appear to have any lead deposits. The only thing I can see is the faint rings at the barrel end of the cylinders where they start to taper.

I have an update on the situation. I didn't know about this model having counterbores on the chambers. I took a paper clip and cleaned around the lip, and the problem was somewhat better. Some of the rounds still would not seat all the way down. I turned these rounds over, and the case head would seat, but when I would insert them case mouth first, they would stick on the counterbore cutouts. If I rotated them around, sometimes they would seat... Sometimes not. Maybe the ring around the brass is not of uniform width all the way around, and causing the hang ups. That would explain why the reloads work fine in the Henry, and not the Model 19.

Does anyone know of a workaround that would allow me to use reloads?

You might have a tight cylinder in that M19?

A visit to a gunsmith for a check and maybe a lapping or polishing
of the cylinder holes may fix the problem?

You should not need to hit the ejector with a 2x4 to have to
remove the spent cases !!!

I use the Lee 4 Die Carbide set in a Lee Classic 4 hole Turret Press.
I loaded some twice fired Perfecta 357mag cases early yesterday morning before the garage got too hot.

No case lube used.

I set the sizing die to touch the #1 shell holder when handle fully bottomed.
Perfecta case
158gr BB LSWC
1.590 OAL

The reloaded ammo and factory Perfecta 357 cases measure .377" near the base forward of the groove.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

At one time there was a tool which would resize then entire cartridge down to the rim by swaging the case against a mandrel. One application of this tool was to remove the bulge in cartridges fired from Glock pistols, which have an oversized extractor notch in the chamber.

Theoretically the case ring you experience with a revolver will eventually thin or weaken the case wall where the web ends. That's because the bulk of the case grips the cylinder wall on ignition, leaving the head free to take up the headspace slack. However the only failure I've experienced is the lip of the case splitting during reloading or after firing. There is little if any additional blowback unless the case separates completely. I've had cases split, probably from an unnoticed crack, but never a complete separation.

You will not get cold flow at pistol pressures, like you do in a rifle (> 60KPSI). This thins the shoulder and thickens the neck, in addition to the stretch which occurs near the base of the cartridge.

You said you didn't have sizing problems with 38 spl. Are your chambers clean when you shoot the 357's? On my Model 19, I must get the chambers shiny clean all the way before I can eject a magnum case after shooting 38 spl.