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Old 08-23-2017, 06:23 AM
noshow noshow is offline
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Default NYPD issue ammo qestion

Does anyone know if the NYPD has established an issue ammo for calibers other than 9mm & 38spl? I am aware the Speer GDHP+P is the choice for both, but would like to know if there is a standard for 45acp and 380auto.
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Old 08-23-2017, 07:06 AM
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I don't believe NYPD permits any other chamberings in duty or off-duty sidearms. There are several former and a few current members here that may be along to confirm this.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:51 AM
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Only calibers that I know of that are dept approved is 9mm and 38+P. Exception might be an undercover who's using a weapon that is not authorized for carry by any other uiniformed members. I couldn't tell you what caliber they would allow.
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Old 09-17-2017, 04:36 AM
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^^^^^I believe you are correct!^^^^^^^

Under cover officers have a bit more flex in what they carry as they do NOT want to be "made" while under cover.
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Old 09-17-2017, 10:27 AM
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I still don't see what all the hub-bub is about Speer GDs. Unless they improved their design in the last 6yrs since I tested them. Maybe they did, because it sure seems like GDs have become quite the fad. Whatever makes one feel comfortable though.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by iPac View Post
I still don't see what all the hub-bub is about Speer GDs. Unless they improved their design in the last 6yrs since I tested them. Maybe they did, because it sure seems like GDs have become quite the fad. Whatever makes one feel comfortable though.
That's because, other than the FBI load, it's probably the most street-proven .38 Special self defense load, including snub revolvers. It also performs well in gel tests, often meeting FBI penetration standards (and even when it doesn't, it's often pretty close), though I consider gel results less important than results from actual shootings. And, for most people, it's controllable even in lightweight snubs.

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Old 09-17-2017, 11:45 AM
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I knew a few "buy and bust" guys who carried Beretta .380 automatics, a few guys in the Jamaican task force that carried 1911s in .45 Auto. They had to qualify with that weapon, and while they were undercover never wore uniforms, even for promotions, court or funerals. At the time in the 80's they were shooting the same brand the street cops were in their designated caliber. when we had the Winchester 158 gr SWC, they had the same box only in their specific caliber. Same when we switched to Remington. The big thing with the NYPD training at the time was shot placement over caliber. They also weren't big on hollow points.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apollo99 View Post
At the time in the 80's they were shooting the same brand the street cops were in their designated caliber. when we had the Winchester 158 gr SWC, they had the same box only in their specific caliber. Same when we switched to Remington. The big thing with the NYPD training at the time was shot placement over caliber. They also weren't big on hollow points.
Your last statement about shot placement and hollow points reminded me about a magazine article from the mid 70's. Lt. Frank McGee, commanding officer of NYPD firearms section, stressed shot placement while defendlng the departments issue 38 Special SWC issue ammo.

This link is an image of one page of the article with Lt McGee's statement:

Scan Pic0033 — imgbb.com

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Old 09-21-2017, 12:43 AM
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I attended a class while at NRA Police Nationals in Des Moines. The 2 instructors were Bill Jordan and Francis McGee. These was considerable discussion about hollow points vs. the semi shoulder bullet NYPD was then using. LT. Mc Gee stressed practice and shot placement.
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Old 09-22-2017, 02:15 AM
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Keep on mind that NYPD was not a leader in adopting advanced ammo, largely for political reasons and because so many in their ranks were not gun-oriented.

McGee was a NYPD official,and had to toe the bureaucratic line.
He was correct that shot placement is vital, but would have denigrated better ammo, because NYPD couldn't use it!

Studies in gunfights show very little improvement when using non-expanding bullets of SWC design over RN bullets. HP bullets of good design DO seem to make a difference.

But NYC is a very liberal environment, where activists opposed HP bullets. Always keep in mind the bureaucratic factor in reviewing NYPD ammo. The same applies in other cities where "community spokesmen" made a political matter of ammo.

Last edited by Texas Star; 09-22-2017 at 02:17 AM.
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Old 09-23-2017, 01:22 PM
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Frank McGee was a NYPD Lieutenant, which is a civil service rank protected by law. They could not demote him for giving his honest opinion. I believe that he was speaking his mind on the subject. At the time, I thought he was underestimating the effectiveness of the then new, expanding handgun bullets. However, after studying this subject myself, for many years, I believe he was on the mark and that we now over estimate the effectiveness of bullet expansion.
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