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Old 08-29-2017, 09:56 AM
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Question .45 GAP

Being I have only owned one Glock (Gen 4 G17) in my 50 something years, I was interested in the .45 GAP round.
I was reading about the Gen 5 last night and decided to see what other Glocks were out in the world.
If, and again, I mean "IF" I were to buy another Glock (besides the Gen 5, maybe), I would be interested in the G38.
Can anyone with experience, that has owned/shot this model, give me the facts about the .45 GAP round? Is it anything like the .45 ACP? What kind of recoil does this round produce? How effective is it at 25'/7 yards? Or, anything else that you can tell me about it.
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:12 AM
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The 45GAP was designed to put 45ACP performance in a 9MM length frame.

This it does, however the ammunition selections are slim. There is no high performance versions like 45ACP+P and 45SUPER. The 45GAP is about at it limits in bare bones form.

If you have small hands, this might be up your alley. If you have average or above man sized hands, why not go to a 45ACP

My feeling is in a world where there is so much 45ACP choice in both firearms and ammunition, why would you want something that is "Like a 45ACP" instead of the original?

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Old 08-29-2017, 10:12 AM
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The GAP has always interested me, too - but my worry is that it will fade away and become a rare and expensive specialty round, it's never gotten much traction.
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:12 AM
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The .45 GAP is very similar to the .45 ACP in all aspects - velocity, recoil, common bullet weights. In fact so similar that I would hate to live on the difference.

It seems I read somewhere in all the recent Gen 5 hoopla that Glock does not intend to produce the Gen 5 in 40 cal/357 Sig or any other of the large frame models (G 21/30, G 20/29, G 37/38/39), as evidenced in the move from 2 pins to one pin in the locking block and trigger of the Gen 5 frame. If you are waiting for a gen 5 in 45 GAP, I fear the wait may be a long one.

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Old 08-29-2017, 10:13 AM
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I only shot it once and it was a while ago. I don't remember recoil being any different than the 45acp which is none existent in a Glock, at least to me. My 45acp Sigs, HKs, and 1911 all have more felt recoil....to me.

Honestly it's a solution in search of a problem. Few departments adopted it and almost all, if not all, have dropped it. Either because they switched caliber or simply went back to the 45acp.

The idea was to make a handgun closer to 9mm size

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Old 08-29-2017, 10:16 AM
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The main reason I've always been interested in GAP is the reduced grip diameter. However, the Gen 4 45 ACP reduced grip size has made that mostly moot for me anyways. If they would just do a 30s Gen 4... or a revised G36.
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:40 AM
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Holster size differs between the the 45 ACP and 45 GAP too. The 45 GAP falls somewhere in between the 17 and 21 due to the G 37's 21 sized slide and 17/22 sized frame.

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Old 08-29-2017, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post
The 45GAP was designed to put 45ACP performance in a 9MM frame.

This it does, however the ammunition selections are slim. There is no high performance versions like 45ACP+P and 45SUPER. The 45GAP is about at it limits in bare bones form.

If you have small hands, this might be up your alley. If you have average or above man sized hands, why not go to a 45ACP

My feeling is in a world where there is so much 45ACP choice in both firearms and ammunition, why would you want something that is "Like a 45ACP" instead of the original?
I have rather large hands. I own 5 of the SD/SDVE model pistols. Like the SD/SDVE, the G38 is the same frame size. It's also the same size as the G19, G23, AND G32. There are BOOKOO people in the world with large hands that own these guns.
I used to own a .45 ACP in the late 90's. It was a Turkish brand called TIZAS.
And, why would I want a .45 GAP? Because, I have never owned one.
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:54 AM
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I disagree with the "solution in search of a problem" concept, WRT .45GAP. Putting .45ACP power in a 9mm-sized package was a novel approach to combining power and concealability at the time. You could get the same round count as a Govt Model/Commander 1911 in a smaller, lighter package. I was very interested in the GAP.

However, I would not get a GAP now. As has been said, ammo can be difficult to find. This is aside from the fact that with modern JHP loads terminal performance across the service calibers are all very similar. I see no practical reason for the GAP anymore.

But if you want one "just because," it's your money.
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:54 AM
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Default Gap Vs. ACP

If the .45 GAP had gotten there first, the .45 ACP probably wouldn't exist. It is a .45 ACP in a smaller package but as others have said, this round is probably destined for extinction, not because it is ballistically inferior but because the field of self-defense/police cartridges is overcrowded.
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:10 AM
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Our state police went to the GAP round for a couple reasons.

One of them was in case a trooper lost their gun(for whatever reason) whoever now had it would have a hard time finding ammo.

Other big reason was the amount of smaller statured people now in the ranks makes it a better fit to little hands. Course it kicks a bit!

Rumor has it the NYSP is going to dump their GAPs. Being this is the peoples republic of NY best guess they will be destroyed rather than traded in! Wasting taxpayer money comes easy to some people!

I have fired a couple GAPs, their OK but I have a few guns that fire full size .45 rounds and see no reason to get one!
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:17 AM
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My opinion is the main reason Glock came out with the 45 GAP is to have THEIR NAME on a cartridge. I would not buy a pistol in this caliber as it is not all that different from the .45acp in performance and like Colt SAA states above - good luck in getting ammo choices. .45 acp is EVERYWHERE and reasonable too.
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:30 AM
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I It's also the same size as the G19, G23, AND G32. :
Same with the G30S (not the G30 or G30SF)

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Old 08-29-2017, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYlakesider View Post
Our state police went to the GAP round for a couple reasons.

One of them was in case a trooper lost their gun(for whatever reason) whoever now had it would have a hard time finding ammo.

Other big reason was the amount of smaller statured people now in the ranks makes it a better fit to little hands. Course it kicks a bit!

Rumor has it the NYSP is going to dump their GAPs. Being this is the peoples republic of NY best guess they will be destroyed rather than traded in! Wasting taxpayer money comes easy to some people!

I have fired a couple GAPs, their OK but I have a few guns that fire full size .45 rounds and see no reason to get one!
PASP had the 45GAP but went back to 45acp a few years ago

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Old 08-31-2017, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Honestly it's a solution in search of a problem.
^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

Quote:
Putting .45ACP power in a 9mm-sized package was a novel approach to combining power and concealability at the time.
So you mean the GAP took place before Smith & Wesson's "invention" of the .40 S&W round?

When it's all said and done, the biggest asset of the .40 S&W is it's ability fit in a 9mm size guns. This is a BIG Dollar savings when equipping an entire police force with an all steel handgun. The .40 was pretty well entrenched when the GAP came along. No only that, Glocks ultra aggressive "scorched earth" marketing strategy relative to the LE market really lessened the financial impact of the GAP.

Bruce

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Old 08-31-2017, 10:49 PM
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If you get a Glock in 45 GAP you might likely be married it for a long time. Every now and then I'll see someone list one for sale. It will sit for a while and then the price will drop. Then it will sit and then the price will drop. I'm pretty certain the last one I saw started at $400 and didn't move until it hit $280.

So, while I would vote for staying clear of the caliber, if you really have your heart set on one you should be able to get it cheap since nobody wants them.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:21 PM
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I have a G38. Bought it when it just came out. I wanted it.
Shoot it once in a while and enjoy it. It is one of the calibers I do not reload for.
If it will be your second gun save your bucks and buy something else..
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:58 PM
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I ran across 50+ boxes of Fed American Eagle 45 GAP 230 gr FMJ on close-out for $9.99 per box at a now defunct LGS. I offered $6 per box and we settled at $8.50. A buddy and I split it. He shot his half in a G**** Model ?? I shot my half in a S&W and Colt 1917 after loading in moon clips.


Bad Point: The 45 GAP would not fire in either revolver without being loaded in a moon clip. It was seating too deep in the cylinders.


Good Point: I dumped the brass in the trash can at the end of the driveway. I just felt "DIRTY" having touched anything associated with the word G****


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Old 09-01-2017, 12:00 AM
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From what I understand, it's a shorter OAL length .45 ACP (basically) to shoehorn the round into Glock 17-19 frames.

It's a "meh" cartridge.
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Old 09-04-2017, 07:48 PM
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"solution in search of a problem"
I might say the .45 GAP is "the answer to a question that no one asked."

The only possible advantage I can see is that the .45 GAP can be used with a smaller 9mm/.40 frame. I suppose if/when the cartridge goes out of production (and I am fairly sure that will happen), one could always trim .45 ACP brass to .45 GAP case length for reloading, and I'd guess it can be reloaded OK using .45 ACP dies.
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:08 PM
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hey folks, no trimming of 45acp brass, the gap is a higher pressure round, and has a thicker case.
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Old 09-04-2017, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
"solution in search of a problem"
I might say the .45 GAP is "the answer to a question that no one asked."


Then there's that too!

Bruce
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:26 PM
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.45 Gap is 50 to $1.50 per round with 13 different loadings. Good luck finding your fired brass.

.45 ACP is 29 to $1.50 per round with a 115 different loadings.

This information was taken from MidwayUSA because what they list is usually available for immediate shipment. The indoor range I reload at has multiple 5 gallon buckets of 45 ACP brass. 45 GAP brass is thrown in the recycle bin because no one wants the brass for reloading.
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
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hey folks, no trimming of 45acp brass, the gap is a higher pressure round, and has a thicker case.
Apparently so, but mainly because the .45 GAP case uses a SP primer:
"It is unsafe to cut off .45 Auto cases to make .45 GAP cases. The most significant issue is the difference in primer size. A Large Pistol primer that fits the .45 Auto case will over-ignite safe powder charges developed in proper GAP cases with small primers, and high pressure will result. The .45 GAP case has a much different internal taper, so cutoff .45 Auto cases will bulge when bullets are seated to recommended lengths."
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Old 09-09-2017, 11:10 AM
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I love GAP bashers but do wish that they actually knew about the round. I just traded a G 37 for a G 38, mostly because I wanted a smaller frame for carry. I was happy to find that I could put my crimson trace from my G 23 on it.
I will agree that the ammo for it is not as widely available, but with my old 45 acp die set I could reload for it and I already had 45acp on the shelf for my Sig, and it uses the same bullets so my ammo costs are comparable.
Why the 45 GAP, one reason is I shoot it better than any 1911 or 4506 I've owned. Ergonomics I guess. The recoil, while snappier than the 1911 0r 4506, is more like my 3913 and softer, to me than my .40 G 23.
I'm at the range almost weekly with my GAP and let anyone who wants to fire it. NO ONE has yet to say they didn't like it and 2 guys went and bought one afterwards. That was the full size they shot, only 2 guys have had a go with the G 38.
I even saw 4 boxes at WallyWorld the other day, I know they must have misordered it. Both of my LGS stock it, so I know I'm not the only guy around shooting it, again I reload for it.
So, while it my not be everyone's cup of tea, It's a good round, has more power per cartridge than standard 45 ACP, fits a smaller frame, and like the 41 magnum, will be around for a long time.
Go out and shoot 50 rounds with one, you might like it.
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Old 09-09-2017, 11:37 AM
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If you are a reloader you will have few ammo availability problems, same bullets , acp cases can be trimmed to gap length.
But if you will depend solely on ammo that's carried on a dealers shelf, I would go 45 acp.....my hunch is the 45 gap will fade away , become special run item , and expensive when you can find it.
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Old 09-09-2017, 11:47 AM
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Florida HP carries the Gap and is satisfied with its real world performance. If anything causes them to change calibers, it will be cost and availability of the Gap ammo, or standard lifetime firearm replacement.
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Old 09-09-2017, 11:49 AM
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Starline makes the .45 GAP brass. If you reload for .45 ACP it is a snap to load the GAP. A quick search with AmmoSeek showed loaded ammo at $14/50, sounds good to me!
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Old 09-09-2017, 11:53 AM
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I've had both a G37 and a G38. The .45GAP round interested me. I sold both of them off, I lost a sale off armslist due to the G37 being a GAP. The guy thought it was an ACP. Georgia arms sells the ammo fairly cheap. I think the FHP still carries the G37 in .45 GAP because glock almost gave them the guns for free.

Right now 1k of 45GAP at georgia arms is $360

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Old 09-09-2017, 01:09 PM
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I have no desire to own a .45 GAP pistol, but if I ran across one at a giveaway price I would probably buy it. And promptly order a supply of .45 GAP brass because I doubt the longevity of ammunition availability.

I have a story from about 10 years ago about the .45 GAP, but it's too long to get into here. Maybe another time.
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Old 09-09-2017, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
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...but my worry is that it will fade away and become a rare and expensive specialty round, it's never gotten much traction.
Isn't that pretty much already the case?
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Old 09-10-2017, 10:15 AM
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Isn't that pretty much already the case?
It's still in production, isn't it?
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boox View Post
I love GAP bashers but do wish that they actually knew about the round. I just traded a G 37 for a G 38, mostly because I wanted a smaller frame for carry. I was happy to find that I could put my crimson trace from my G 23 on it.
I will agree that the ammo for it is not as widely available, but with my old 45 acp die set I could reload for it and I already had 45acp on the shelf for my Sig, and it uses the same bullets so my ammo costs are comparable.
Why the 45 GAP, one reason is I shoot it better than any 1911 or 4506 I've owned. Ergonomics I guess. The recoil, while snappier than the 1911 0r 4506, is more like my 3913 and softer, to me than my .40 G 23.
I'm at the range almost weekly with my GAP and let anyone who wants to fire it. NO ONE has yet to say they didn't like it and 2 guys went and bought one afterwards. That was the full size they shot, only 2 guys have had a go with the G 38.
I even saw 4 boxes at WallyWorld the other day, I know they must have misordered it. Both of my LGS stock it, so I know I'm not the only guy around shooting it, again I reload for it.
So, while it my not be everyone's cup of tea, It's a good round, has more power per cartridge than standard 45 ACP, fits a smaller frame, and like the 41 magnum, will be around for a long time.
Go out and shoot 50 rounds with one, you might like it.
Know lots about the round. Works if you NEED a 45cal, 9mm size GLOCK. Otherwise there's a million other choices for 45acp. Like the Shield for instance.

I never shot one. I'd probably like it but impractical so no point in spending money on it ......for me

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Old 09-10-2017, 01:21 PM
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Love the G37. Very accurate. Low recoil. Very contollable. Super easy to reload. Long as you can find brass, finding bullets and powder are the same as .45 ACP with maybe a little better ballastics.
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Old 09-10-2017, 01:49 PM
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I remember Springfield made a 1911 in 45 GAP (scaled down for the shorter round. I don't know if they still make it. I've never fired a GAP, and don't really care if I ever do. I don't wish any hate on the GAP round, it's just that I have enough different calibers to deal with and don't need to add another on my plate.
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Old 09-10-2017, 01:59 PM
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Never really understood the need for the .45 GAP. Sorta like the .357 Sig. Niche calibers trying to fill a niche that doesn't really exist. Or a solution to a nonexistent problem.
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Old 09-10-2017, 02:03 PM
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Default .357 SIG

Touched upon in this thread: I don't know if Glock was inspired to get their name on a cartridge. However, they are not giving out free advertising. They call the .357 SIG the .357 Auto.
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:14 PM
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.45 GAP will be considered a legit round when and if a REAL (as in revolving cylinder type) handgun is manufacrured to fire it.:-)

If the ballistic neighborhood appeals there are always ,44 specials out there.
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Old 09-10-2017, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federali View Post
Touched upon in this thread: I don't know if Glock was inspired to get their name on a cartridge. However, they are not giving out free advertising. They call the .357 SIG the .357 Auto.
And it ain't either one. Should be called the NOT 357 Sig Auto.
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