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Old 09-07-2017, 09:16 AM
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Toying with idea of getting a Winchester 71 but the recoil of the 348 Winchester is said to be brutal.

Could I get a custom loader to use a bullet lighter than 200 gr and use less powder for an easier time on my shoulder

100 yard range is all I need
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:41 AM
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For starters - is something lighter than a 200g bullet commercially available?
Secondly, you'll have to look for someone other than what I call the 'boutique' loaders such as Buffalo bore, Double Tap, Underwood and Grizzly to name some of them.
You could contact : Safari Arms, LTD.
They load the caliber but they have specific brands they deal with so if they don't offer that light of a bullet I'm not sure what they'll recommend.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:46 AM
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Any caliber can be downloaded to about as low a MV as you want. It generally involves using a light charge of a faster burning powder. For most any larger volume CF cartridge, try using 13 grains of a shotgun powder like Red Dot or Green Dot (or even Bullseye, Unique, and 700-X) and about any bullet weight you wish to use. No wadding over the powder is needed or should be used. That will give approximately black powder ballistic performance (around 1200-1500 ft/sec depending on the bullet weight). Some fast rifle powders such as H4227 and 2400 are excellent for making up intermediate loads. For example, my favorite load for the .300 Savage is 24 grains of 4227 and a 165 grain bullet. It produces a MV of around 2000 ft/sec, and is much more pleasant to shoot than factory level loads. It still functions the long-recoil action fine in my Remington Model 81. Just experiment some.

A good source for lighter load data for a wide range of rifle calibers is the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Even though most of the information provided there is for lead bullets, jacketed bullet performance won't be much different.

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Old 09-07-2017, 10:09 AM
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Hodgdon has reduced load data for the .348 200gr bullet.
You are going to be hard pressed to get lighter bullets so I would personally just run the 200.

Montana bullet works has 200gr cast gas checked available that are a little cheaper than what you can find in a jacketed bullet.

348, RCBS 57911, 200gr, FN-GC - Montana Bullet Works

Published H4895 starting load x .6 = 30 grains.

H4895 – Hodgdon

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/u...ifle-loads.pdf
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:21 AM
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You could also try Trail Boss as a powder. I have a friend that uses it for reduced 416 Rigby loads
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:53 AM
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A lot of the older reloading manuals have reduced loads for rifle calibers. mostly lead bullets and from what I remember, they are about half velocity. So it can be done, finding someone to do it for you may be tough
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:05 PM
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You could probably get set up to handload your own for what several boxes of ammo from a custom loader would cost. You could also eventually make better and more accurate ammunition than that available from a custom loader because your ammo would be tailored for your rifle, not everyone else's.
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:11 PM
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Shouldn't be any trick to download it to .35 Remington levels, which would cut recoil and give you plenty of oomph out to 100 yards or more.
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:34 PM
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Gas check lead bullet loads in the 1800fps range are pretty tame.
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:24 PM
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Here are some lead bullet .348 Win loads from the Lyman cast bullet handbook:

187 grain lead bullet #350447 (.348" dia.)
2400 20-23 grains, 1610-1779 ft/sec
4227 20-30.5 grains 1510-2123 ft/sec
4198 25-35 grains 1672-2150 ft/sec
3031 35-47 grains 1818-2338 ft/sec

255 grain lead bullet #350482 (.348" dia.)
2400 19-22 grains 1412-1560 ft/sec
4227 21-30 grains 1428-1838 ft/sec
4198 27-38.5 grains 1661-2096 ft/sec
3031 35-46 grains 1798-2217 ft/sec

There are several internet sources for .348 lead and jacketed bullets and also brass. Winchester still lists .348 Win unprimed brass as available, and there is usually some fired brass listed on Gun Broker. If you plan to shoot much, going into reloading in a modest way will be worthwhile. .348 loaded ammunition is difficult to find and is expensive. I don't think any of the big guys (Federal, W-W, R-P) still load it.

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Old 09-07-2017, 02:53 PM
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Hawk has .348 dia bullets down to 165g.

Many of the responses require handloads.
The initial question was - who can do it for the person that posted the question!
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:58 PM
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There are some custom commercial reloaders around which might do it, but I would guess that could turn out to be be a costly proposition. Which is why the best approach would be for the OP to take up reloading in a modest way with used equipment from eBay, etc. Or if the OP has any friends who are reloaders, he could buy dies and components for a friend to use. Lee still lists a .348 die set for $30.

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Old 09-07-2017, 04:51 PM
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Might be time to look into reloading your own.
A Lee Hand Press Kit and Lee dies will cost about $80.00. The Lee Pacesetter Dies come with a powder scoop , loading data and a shell holder. Everything you need. Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has more data for cast bullets.
No bench required. I use one for all handgun and 30-30 reloading.
Something to think about .
Gary
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:30 PM
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Would it be possible to buy factory ammo, safely pull the bullets, dump a measured amount of powder using a scale, and reseat the bullet by hand with a hand loading tool?
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:02 PM
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Sure, if you could find any factory ammo. And have a bullet puller. And a hand loading tool. I wouldn't reduce the factory charge much more than 10%-15%.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:02 PM
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bushmaster- You'll likely find such an approach unsatisfactory, not to mention a possible of waste of time, money, and components. Also, if you got decent accuracy from such loads it would be despite the procedure used.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
Would it be possible to buy factory ammo, safely pull the bullets, dump a measured amount of powder using a scale, and reseat the bullet by hand with a hand loading tool?
Could try shooting it first, might be to your liking and all this talk is for naught.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:05 AM
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Would it be possible to buy factory ammo, safely pull the bullets, dump a measured amount of powder using a scale, and reseat the bullet by hand with a hand loading tool?
It sounds like you have never handloaded before and there's nothing wrong with that but what you are looking to do really isn't for a brand new reloader. Just a warning, .348 Win brass is very expensive and that's IF you can find any.

From what I'm told it's really not the ammo itself that causes the discomfort, it's the style of the stock and the light rifle itself. I'm not sure that's true but it's what I hear.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
Toying with idea of getting a Winchester 71 but the recoil of the 348 Winchester is said to be brutal.

Could I get a custom loader to use a bullet lighter than 200 gr and use less powder for an easier time on my shoulder

100 yard range is all I need
No other cartridge uses .348" bullets. Consequently there is little incentive for manufacturers to make a variety of bullets or bullet molds. The cartridge case was not based on a standard head or rim design. That rules out reforming a common case. When I negotiated for once fired empty .348 brass 30 years ago a store owner flat out told me that since I could afford a Model 71 he had no sympathy for me and I could pay through the nose or go else where. It must be worse now. While a dump truck full of money will flush out a business willing to make reduced .348 loads the obvious answer for a non-reloader is to choose a different rifle.

That said, 30 years ago I did have a light .348 bullet mold and lucked onto the scarce gas checks to fit. I forget what brand the mold was.

On the good side my Model 71 had a slick fast to operate lever and casual target shooting with light loads was fun.

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Old 09-08-2017, 08:31 AM
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There are a number of custom mouldmakers today that can produce virtually any mould one could imagine, and with custom dimensions, probably for under $200.00. However, the buyer would have to know key dimensions of his bore and chamber. I have not looked up the bore twist rate for a .348, but it's all a lot more complicated than designing a "light" bullet. If the bore twist is not compatible with a bullet's length and weight, it will shoot poorly, maybe very poorly. If a cast bullet has an undersize diameter, even if only slightly undersize, it will shoot poorly and lead the bore. If it's oversize by very much, again, all sorts of problems.

Recoil is a subjective thing and affects everyone differently. I wouldn't think recoil from a 250-grain factory .348 load would be excessive for most persons, except possibly from a benchrest, and that, only after firing many rounds.

No need to further address the difficulty in obtaining brass or loaded ammo; that's been adequately covered.

This whole matter is really not a project for a beginner and/or non-handloader.
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
Toying with idea of getting a Winchester 71 but the recoil of the 348 Winchester is said to be brutal.

Could I get a custom loader to use a bullet lighter than 200 gr and use less powder for an easier time on my shoulder

100 yard range is all I need
You are a candidate for becoming a reloader. I load all of my guns so that they can shoot like a .22 to bunker busters and everything in between.

It would be great if you can find someone that can help you make the load you want. If this is important to you, it may very well be worthwhile to get into. If you were to do that, you will find that there is a BIG new world out there that can either be just simple enough to make some special bullets that you would like to delve deeply into. It's not hard to learn, but you have to be a careful sort of person.
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:00 PM
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" The cartridge case was not based on a standard head or rim design. That rules out reforming a common case."

That is correct, and it would be difficult to find even an uncommon case that would work as a basis for reforming. At one time Brass Extrusion Laboratories (I don't know if that company still exists) made .348 brass but I am not sure that anyone is today. As I said earlier, brass does show up occasionally on GunBroker, and one may find some .348 ammo or brass at gun shows. A year or so ago, I bought a full box of fired .348 brass for $10 at a gun show, just in case I ever needed it. So far, I haven't.
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:36 PM
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I'm only reporting this to give the original poster and better idea of what he'd face if he buys a Model 71. On a smaller forum that specializes in brand R. a member is advertising 96 pieces of Winchester virgin .348 brass and 135 Hornady bullets to load into those cases for $250.

On the good side it would be a lot less costly than assembling cartridges for a .577-450 Martini-Henry British service rifle. I bought one of those once for $99 then never got any further than buying the RCBS shell holder.
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:43 AM
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It looks like Quality Cartridge is doing a run of .348 Winchester brass. According to Midway USA they will have some in stock the first week of October. They are costly @$2.20/piece but I have seen them for twice that.

A 20 piece box of 348 Winchester Brass will run you $43.99 but it's a rare cartridge.
Quality Cartridge Reloading Brass 348 Winchester Box of - MPN: 994107

I know nothing about this company, I just saw it when looking on the Midway USA site.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:08 AM
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The 348 WCF case is based on the 50-110 WCF case.

50-110 new commercial brass is available,,about $1/piece from Starline,ect.
Actually being able to form the 50 down to a tapered 348 w/o a handful of different dies, a decent size press and a lot of time is another thing. I'm sure it can be done, I've seen some pretty radical case forming done.

My best advise for the OP would be to get into a simple single stage reloading press, set of dies, ect. Load your own to your own specs. It isn't hard to do, you'll know exactly what they are and the equiptment never goes to waste,,there's always another gun begging for ammo.
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:17 AM
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The .348 Win cartridge was at one time available in 3 bullet weights: 180gr, 200gr and 250gr, so should shoot 180 grain OK. Barnes Bullets used to offer 250gr but I don;t recall if they offered 180's. At one time Browning offered a replica model 71, and I bought one. I can verify that it has very stout recoil off the bench. I later bought one that had been rebarreled to .348 Ackley improved that had even more recoil. All my reloading was done with W-W brass and 200gr jacketed bullets.
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:36 AM
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The 348 WCF case is based on the 50-110 WCF case.
50-110 new commercial brass is available,,about $1/piece from Starline,etc. Actually being able to form the 50 down to a tapered 348 w/o a handful of different dies, a decent size press and a lot of time is another thing. I'm sure it can be done, I've seen some pretty radical case forming done.
I don't know where one would get a reforming die set to convert .50-110 cases to .348. It would likely involve at least two sizing dies, possibly three. And if such a set even exists (or custom made), it wouldn't be cheap. Donnelley's guide to cartridge case conversion (which is very extensive and detailed) does not provide much guidance regarding the .348. Not a job I would take on if there was any way I could buy .348 brass somewhere. The .348 standard reloading die sets are not that expensive.

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Old 09-15-2017, 11:28 AM
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Always wanted to shoot a Winchester Model 71. Came pretty close to buying one on an occasion or two.

It seems that the Winchester stock design, while fine for 19th century black powder fueled cartridges, is brutal when coupled with 20th century cartridge intensity. I confess that even the Winchester 94 Carbine is not my favorite rifle for bench rest shooting.

If the recoil of the Model 71 in .348 Winchester is thought to be bad, try cozying up to a Model 1895 in .405 Winchester. The stock design that works fine with a Model 1873 rifle is punishing when bullet weight is 300 grains and muzzle velocity is 2300 fps.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:35 PM
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I had a 71 for a while and actually shot it quite a lot. I never found the recoil that bad. Components for the 348 even back when I had mine were hard to come by. Bullets difficult to find in stock and brass was really hard to get. Most of mine I got by finding loaded ammo and shooting it. I liked the 71 but the reloading hassle finally made me move it on.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:02 PM
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I have a 71 rifle and load cast bullets for my reduced loads. One thing you have to remember is that if it doesn't have a peep sight on it the barrel mounted rear sight might not have enough adjustment to shoot to the same point of aim as the jacketed loads.

After I contacted Hodgdon about recommended starting loads for Trail Boss I never received a response so I didn't use it. I tried 3031 with a suggested Lyman load and had hangfires which are not pleasant to say the least.

If you buy the rifle pm me and I will share my loading data with you.
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:51 PM
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There are quite a few people trying to sell loaded ammo or brass on Gunbroker, the price is pretty steep though.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
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I don't know where one would get a reforming die set to convert .50-110 cases to .348. It would likely involve at least two sizing dies, possibly three. And if such a set even exists (or custom made), it wouldn't be cheap. Donnelley's guide to cartridge case conversion (which is very extensive and detailed) does not provide much guidance regarding the .348. Not a job I would take on if there was any way I could buy .348 brass somewhere. The .348 standard reloading die sets are not that expensive.

That the 50-110 is the parent case of the 348 was simply my point,,it's not a one-of design spec as is often times cited.

Challenge a case forming/ bullet swaging junkie to make 348 from 50-110 and many will do it. But it's take a bunch of odd reloading dies and more work than seemingly necessary to make one from the other.
They just do stuff like that because they can.
Others like us scrounge around and buy a couple boxes of the still available precious brass and are satisfied with that.

I do some case forming for the odd calibers I reload for, mainly metrics. But something like that transformation I wouldn't even try to do.
Making scrap brass out of new unprimed 50-110 cases isn't a good use of time & money!
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WINDOW10 DOWNLOADED ITSELF bearfoot The Lounge 28 08-07-2016 06:47 AM
Need your help - which deer rifle: Savage 99c, Winchester 88, or Winchester 100? Double-O-Dave Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 54 11-19-2015 09:34 AM
SOLD: Winchester Wrangler, Ruger sp101, Winchester Mod 70 compact. Jager01 GUNS - For Sale or Trade 2 01-19-2012 07:18 PM
Got it, Winchester 9422, plus a Browning BL-22 (UPDATE: Winchester range report pics) canoeguy Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 6 02-04-2010 02:32 PM
Has the Speer 45 colt 250gr GD been downloaded? IT HAS! sceva Ammo 6 05-19-2009 06:07 AM

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