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10-05-2017, 08:29 PM
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HST 124 or 147
I have been carrying HST 124 for a while and many people that I have talked to recommend a heavier round for SD. Why is that? Would I be better off going with the 147? Now with the heavier round is there issues with failure to feeds? Any information would be helpful. Thanks.
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10-05-2017, 10:13 PM
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124gr HST is fine, so long as it's reliable in your gun and you can shoot it well.
But to answer your question, as a general rule (there are always exceptions) heavier bullets will penetrate deeper than lighter bullets within a given caliber, and penetration is generally accepted as the most important parameter when it comes to bullet effectiveness, after shot placement. However, it's usually only the lightest bullets in a given caliber that tend to lack sufficient penetration. In 9mm, 115gr and lighter tend to have shallower penetration (rounds using the Barnes all-copper 115gr HP seem to be the exception).
My own personal preference, based on research I've done, is for medium-to-heavy HP loads for SD, whether standard pressure or +P. I use 147gr HST, but 124gr HST is good-to-go if that's what you have and are comfortable with it. I see no reason for you to change unless you just want to try something different.
FWIW, the 147gr HST I use in my Beretta 92FS has never malfunctioned, even when I attempted to induce a limp-wrist failure.
Last edited by ContinentalOp; 10-05-2017 at 10:14 PM.
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10-05-2017, 10:23 PM
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I used 147 because that’s what the range master gives me haha
My LCR 9mm shot the 124gr more accurately, so I carried those when I had it. My Glock 17 and XDs shoot the 147 true to aim and reliably. So I use those when I use this guns.
Think either will do you just fine
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10-06-2017, 12:15 AM
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I use the 147HST over the 124HST because it expands more, but they are both good.
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10-06-2017, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheelzip
I use the 147HST over the 124HST because it expands more, but they are both good.
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Really?
Any HST round I have tested expanded completely every time. These are the most reliable HPs in my opinion. Unless you mean it expands more because of the larger mass of the bullet, but I have never had a round fail to fully open.
Can't say the same about GoldDots.
I use 124gr for 9mm. I would not want hit by one of them, of any weight.
Last edited by iPac; 10-06-2017 at 09:32 AM.
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10-06-2017, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPac
Unless you mean it expands more because of the larger mass of the bullet ....
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Yes, that's what I meant. The post from Brasky preceding yours shows the difference in expansion.
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10-06-2017, 10:31 AM
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I prefer the 124gr standard pressure. It works fine in both of my 9mm pistols. Check this chart for both loads.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...tic-tests/#9mm
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10-06-2017, 08:34 PM
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The 9mm relies on higher velocity for much of its effect over a .38 Special.
I use 124 grain HST and Gold Dot. I have confidence in both.
A .357 SIG might perform well with 147 grain bullets. Has anyone here chronographed one? But its rep is based on hot 125 grain ammo.
If I wanted more bullet weight than 124 grains in a 9mm, I'd carry a bigger gun.
Last edited by Texas Star; 10-07-2017 at 08:53 AM.
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10-06-2017, 08:57 PM
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Another HST option that you don't hear much about is the 150gr Micro HST. Designed to give the expected HST performance out of short barrelled 9's like the Shield, LC9, etc. In my SD9VE, it shoots to POA at 7yds. The wife likes it because of the softer recoil vs the 124's.
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10-07-2017, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorris
Now with the heavier round is there issues with failure to feeds?
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In 9mm, my husband and I use the standard pressure HST 147's exclusively. I've never had a feeding issue with 147gr HST in any of my 9mm pistols, but as always you should trial shoot a bunch of it to be sure.
SGAmmo has had good prices and availability. 50 Round Box - 9mm Luger Federal HST 147 Grain Hollow Point LE Ammo P9HST2 | SGAmmo.com
Last edited by bigwheelzip; 10-07-2017 at 08:12 AM.
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10-07-2017, 12:00 PM
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I use HST +P 124s because I want to keep the velocity at around 1100+ fps.
I have a 3" CZ RAMI and use HST 124+P and get an average of 1109 fps
( that is a running average of around 175 rounds fired.)
My friend has a 4" 9mm and asked me to pick his ammo.
I told him to use HST 124 standard pressure as Federal stats show 1150 fps from a 4".
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Last edited by REM 3200; 12-20-2017 at 12:50 PM.
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10-07-2017, 06:29 PM
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The truth is , with proper placement , they both work.
Shoot both,
Chose the one that has the best reliability , 100% is preferred ,
and the one you can shoot best.
Accuracy is critical but the gun must feed fire and eject.
Guns that jam and misses will get you killed.
Gary
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10-07-2017, 07:08 PM
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I'm working on a theory......
....that a 147 gr. bullets is better (especially a GOOD bullet like the HST) would be better for SD. But my SD guns have 125 gr. in them because I KNOW that's a good SD round.
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10-08-2017, 08:25 PM
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Thanks everyone for their replies. Like I said I mainly carry the 124gr but lately the LGS has been out of them so I was thinking of stepping up to those because they always seem to be in stock. I will put a few boxes through my 2.0 compact and see how they work.
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10-08-2017, 08:35 PM
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Agree with ContinentalOp. If it's reliable in your weapon and you shoot it well, it doesn't really matter when it comes to modern SD ammo. I've always preferred 124-gr bullets as its a compromise between 115 and 147.
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10-09-2017, 09:14 AM
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My Shield 9 doesn't like the HST 147, last range visit I had a10% failure to feed, hollow point was catching on the feed ramp. Not sure what the problem was. I haven't tried the 124.
The 147 works fine in my FS 9.
Last edited by Tradewind36; 10-09-2017 at 09:15 AM.
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10-09-2017, 09:56 AM
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147 Grain Bullets
I'm breaking in a brand new Kahr Arms T9 (their largest pistol). By any method of slide release, the gun balked at chambering the first round from the magazine and I believe it is the wide meplat of the bullet. Hornady Critical Defense chambered without incident. I was using Federal first generation 147 grain rounds which I need to use up.
I suspect that some of the smaller 9mms may have chambering issues with 147s depending on bullet shape. For that reason, you need to test your selected rounds in your hand guns, especially if the bullet looks like a miniature shot glass.
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10-09-2017, 01:25 PM
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It all boils down to what works and personal preference. There is a great ballistics chart put out by Lucky Gunner that is quite comprehensive and can be found with a search for "Lucky Gunner handgun self-defense ballistic tests".
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11-17-2017, 09:54 PM
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Guess I'm odd man out, but after reading some articles some years ago about some LE agencies in the Southwest using the WW Ranger 9mm 127 gr. +P+, I began trying them.
Excellent accuracy, reliable, great expansion and penetration (clay as a medium). Yes, they're hot - probably not too far from .38 Super.
I don't shoot a lot of them anymore.
I'm confident it's a great round and carry it in several of my 9mm's.
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11-18-2017, 12:53 AM
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Depends a lot on the weapon you are shooting.
Of the two loads mentioned I know which one I would use in my
C9 and which one I would use in my 5" barrel 9mm, through test.
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11-18-2017, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westie1
Another HST option that you don't hear much about is the 150gr Micro HST. Designed to give the expected HST performance out of short barrelled 9's like the Shield, LC9, etc. In my SD9VE, it shoots to POA at 7yds. The wife likes it because of the softer recoil vs the 124's.
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That's the round that I carry in my Shield 9mm also. The reduction in recoil vs 147gr is very noticeable, and would make accurate follow up shots easier.
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11-18-2017, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradewind36
My Shield 9 doesn't like the HST 147, last range visit I had a10% failure to feed, hollow point was catching on the feed ramp. Not sure what the problem was. I haven't tried the 124.
The 147 works fine in my FS 9.
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I had the same problem with both 124 & 147gr. bullets.
Turned out changing the magazine spring to a MUCH stronger one
solved the problem in both the 10rd. and the 14rd. (For a CZ 2075 RAMI).
I am now at slightly over 2000rds. without a malfunction of any kind.
It is now my EDC pistol with HST 124+P.
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Last edited by REM 3200; 12-20-2017 at 12:49 PM.
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11-21-2017, 12:15 AM
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My Glock 26 is loaded with HST 147gn +P, which it seems to like very well.
Previously, my round of choice was the +P+ 127gn load, but I haven’t seen any for sale lately. I found that round to be very accurate in several different nines.
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12-20-2017, 01:01 AM
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No one has mentioned 115. I am new to 9mm. 124 seems to be the preference but I see a lot of 115 for sale.
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12-20-2017, 04:06 PM
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I'm a fan of using the bullet weight that was used when the cartridge was developed. I load a 124/125gr bullet in the 9mm, a 158gr bullet in the 38/357, a 250/255gr bullet in the 45 Colt and so on. It's just what I feel is right.
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12-20-2017, 05:08 PM
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I am probably behind the times, but I don't care for the 147 grain weight in a 9mm. I remember back when the first generation of this bullet weight was a poor stopper compared to the 115 and 124's in the 9mm.
Personally, I carry +P 124 Rangers and HST's in my Glock 26 for social use. BUT, as others have said, reliability is more important than bullet weight.
Larry
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12-20-2017, 05:10 PM
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6 of one, half-a-dozen of the other. Comparisons say that one penetrates a bit better and the other expands a bit better. Number crunching shows them both to be excellent choices. Choose the one that you and your weapon handle best and be confident you have a proven stopper.
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12-20-2017, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishinfool
I am probably behind the times, but I don't care for the 147 grain weight in a 9mm. I remember back when the first generation of this bullet weight was a poor stopper compared to the 115 and 124's in the 9mm.
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Current generation loads, like the 147gr HST, perform very well, both in gel and in actual shootings.
But, as you said, other factors, like shootability and reliability, are more important. It's mostly personal preference with modern loads.
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12-20-2017, 06:05 PM
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Not based on a big analysis, but I tend to hit the middle of the road for each cartridge:
100 for .32 revolver cartridges
125 for 38/357
124 for 9mm
240 for 44 Special and Magnum.
40 gr for 22LR and 22Mag.
I figure the mid range of what the gun can handle will give the least problems. No desire to push the envelope.
I don't always hit it exactly (e.g., I sometimes use 135 gr in 38), but I don't vary too far from the mid range.
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12-21-2017, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorris
I have been carrying HST 124 for a while and many people that I have talked to recommend a heavier round for SD. Why is that? Would I be better off going with the 147? Now with the heavier round is there issues with failure to feeds? Any information would be helpful. Thanks.
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Try some and see how you like them and how your firearm likes them. I used to go for 115 grain +P or +P+ loads. The faster the better because that means more foot pounds of energy! Problem with many hollow point bullets is that when pushed really fast, the expand dramatically, but that rapid expansion means less penetration. If the bullet does not reach vital organs, it's a waiting game based on how long it takes to bleed out.
Many people poo-poo the 147 grain JHP in 9mm and I did too. Back when the 147 grain load was introduced, it was designed for military special ops in sound suppressed weapons. Those loads were not designed for expansion, they were designed to be subsonic. Modern 147 grain JHP's tend to expand quite well even in standard pressure loads and allow for adequate penetration. That being said, the modern 124 grain JHP's are probably equal in terms of penetration and expansion.
So, don't go on 20 or 30 year old data. Try some 147's and see if you like them better than the 124's.
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12-22-2017, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorris
I have been carrying HST 124 for a while and many people that I have talked to recommend a heavier round for SD. Why is that? Would I be better off going with the 147? Now with the heavier round is there issues with failure to feeds? Any information would be helpful. Thanks.
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9mm 124 grain FMJ at 1,250 fps is an amazing round. Velocity has a major impact on temporary wound cavitation.
And this is from people who aren't "playin" to use a common phrase.
Last edited by Bill Lear; 12-22-2017 at 04:10 AM.
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12-30-2017, 11:29 PM
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G-26 question
Does your wife shoot the G-26 OK? I am thinking of one for my wife.
Thanks - Rick
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12-30-2017, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheelzip
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Did you notice an appreciable difference in recoil from the 124 or 147? Also, do you carry a G-26 and like it. Thinking about one for my wife.
One more - does anyone know what HST stands for?
Thanks!!
Last edited by rickyc; 12-30-2017 at 11:42 PM.
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12-31-2017, 12:13 AM
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Barrel length makes a difference.
For 3" CC sized 9s, with those 3 inch barrels
Little more penetration and velocity for 124, little bigger and more expansion with 147.
Last edited by cybermgk; 12-31-2017 at 12:14 AM.
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12-31-2017, 12:42 AM
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For defense, I think you are ok with any of these:
Federal 9BPLE
WW Ranger 127 gr +P+
Gold Dot 124 +P
Federal HST 124 or 147
WW RA9B
Speer G2 147 gr
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12-31-2017, 03:26 AM
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I'd use it.....
My 'issue' SD ammo is 125 grain, but I feel that a 147 grain round still has the velocity plus a little mass and I'd rather go that way than using lighter bullets. I feel that a 115 gr can do a great job, but my preferences just go in the other direction.
I'll take any of the three.
I'm pushing this theory with some experiments with 9mm bullets heavier than 147 gr. So far lack of reloading data limits me to not so great velocities, so it's still just a theory.
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12-31-2017, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishinfool
I am probably behind the times, but I don't care for the 147 grain weight in a 9mm. I remember back when the first generation of this bullet weight was a poor stopper compared to the 115 and 124's in the 9mm.
Personally, I carry +P 124 Rangers and HST's in my Glock 26 for social use. BUT, as others have said, reliability is more important than bullet weight.
Larry
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That's like saying you don't care for cars or airplanes because the first ones were junk
The 147s we have today are not even a comparison to the 147s you reference
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12-31-2017, 06:25 PM
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Try both and then go with whichever is the most accurate in your particular firearm. Every one is different.
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01-01-2018, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorris
I have been carrying HST 124 for a while and many people that I have talked to recommend a heavier round for SD. Why is that? Would I be better off going with the 147? Now with the heavier round is there issues with failure to feeds? Any information would be helpful. Thanks.
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If you study the gelatin tests over at Luckygunner.com the results are quite interesting. I was never a fan of the 147 grain 9mm load beyond subsonic use, but after seeing it compared to other weights in gelatin I'm impressed.
I like the HST 124 grain as well, and I don't think you'd be going wrong at all to use that for carry.
One thing you'll notice from the actual gel tests is the line between bullet weights and velocities has become quite blurred as manufacturers load their ammo to "pass the gel test" so to speak. You'll see 124 grain loads going no faster than 147 grain loads, and from what I can tell this seems to show up as a variance in penetration with the lighter bullets penetrating less though with an impressive initial temporary cavity.
Other than the HST 124 grain which is a top performing load, I'd give the overall edge to Winchester's Ranger and "Train and Defend" line.
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01-01-2018, 11:41 AM
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The difference between the 124 HST and 147 HST is splitting hairs.. Use whichever is convenient if they both function reliably in your weapon.
Self defense handgun rounds are marginal fight stoppers at best. There are no magical rounds.
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