I've been looking for the Remington 158 grain LSWCHP plus p ammo, but have been coming up empty. Midway says that they are discontinued. Anyone have info on this?

On the Remington website it shows it's still available. I did find this however. Cheap 38 Special Ammo For Sale - 158 gr +P LSWCHP Federal Law Enforcement Ammunition In Stock - 5f0 rounds

Here you go:
Remington Ammunition RTP38S12 High Terminal Performan 38 Spe
And at a good price too!

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Targetsportsusa.com gets it in regularly. I bought the 50 round boxes for 16.99 a few weeks ago. They have been running that price for a long time. Buy a case of 10 and get free shipping. They are out at the moment though.

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Billy
Gunsmith, M/C mechanic

Remington RTP38S12 is the better choice. The Federal and Winchester loadings now use a harder bullet and do not expand consistently.

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Billy
Gunsmith, M/C mechanic

Out of a 4" barrel at 921fps the Rem. FBI load will work.

A test on Luck Gunner had the 2" barrel at only 802fps.
only one out of five started to expand and the average for five was only .40" dia. from a .38 dia. bullet !!

For SD use there are better loads to trust your life on.

If you've done much chronographing from 2" barrels, 800 fps with a 158 grain bullet is a good velocity, even with most +P ammo.

Some years ago, I chronographed the Remington +P 158 lead HP and Winchester's version of the same. Using a snubnose S&W 638, muzzle velocity with the Remington was 829; Winchester was 790, virtually the same. For comparison, Buffalo Bore, certainly in a class of it's own, was 1014. Standard pressure Buffalo Bore was 836.

And yet, the FBI load has a solid track record of stopping violent attackers. While I carry SB-GDHP in my 642 because it also has a proven track record, I would have no reservations carrying the FBI load, either the Remington +P version or the BB standard pressure version.

Thanks for the info guys. I prefer the Remington load for my model 10. I've been using speer gold dots in my 442/642 because they have less recoil and perform well in the short barrels from the reviews I've seen. I'm sure they'd do well in the model 10 also,but as expected the 158 grain bullets seem to hit right at point of aim.

I gave you a link to the Remington FBI Load in Post #3 and they are in stock.

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SWCA #3437

Thanks, I saw it. I should have replied that I preferred the Remington AND I was gonna get them from your link. Thanks again!

One reason that the Remington/Winchester FBI load has a good street record, is that it was a lot better than the old 1867 Round Nose load that out of a 4" barrel did around 755fps and had a ME of only 200..... that was called "The Widow maker".

Even though it took until 1922 for Winchester to come out with the FBI load, with 890fps out of a four inch barrel and ME at 278, it had to be better with the new SWC/HP design, if it expanded or not.
An added 135fps will help any 38 Special bullet.

Ed-

Did you write that to see if anyone would correct your dates? If not, you need to do some revised reading!!
Those dates should read AS 1899 AND 1972.

Hornady LSWCHP
5.0gr Unique
38spl case
Federal SPP

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Texas Star;

Now that I think about it you are right.
BP ended around 1900 and I have the 1972 date logged as first being tried in Texas! No +P on the Winchester box, either.

I just got that info from the data from Midway, off of the info of the loads. I wanted to double check the fps on the "Factory loads".

Just shows that you can't trust any one, any more...........

Nice catch, thanks.

The "new and improved" Remington HTP rendition of the FBI load has repeatedly been chronographed below the version I carried for years (I still have part of a box stashed) in a J-frame. I now carry the standard pressure Buffalo Bore loading, which clocks almost identically with the older Remington stuff and also offers a gas-checked bullet and low-flash powders. The lead used is soft like the Remingron.

In view of the fifty-year track record of the good FBI load from both two- and four-inch barrels, I'm very comfortable carrying it.

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Oh well, what the hell.

That link shows a pic of a box of jacketed hollow points, but the description says Lead.

Charlie

If you can not find any (or are opened to a suggestion), buy some Buffalo Bore standard velocity (# 20 C) LSWCHP which is better than the Remington version even if you find it. The Buffalo Bore will give you an honest 854 feet per second out of a 2" Chief's Special where as the Remington +P is a wimpy 760 - 785 fps out of the same gun. I am not just quoting what I see on the internet, these are actual Chronograph results that I did personally.

Buffalo Bore's +P version (20 A) will give you 1025 fps out of the same 2" barrel - yes that is not a mistake - it is actual Chronograph data that I have repeated multiple times on different days with different 2" guns and different lots of ammo.

Buffalo Bore ammo is much more consistent and accurate than and Remington or Winchester I have ever tested. It is certainly NOT cheap at $28 bucks for 20 rounds, but if it is for self defense and a familiarization session you will not be shooting hundreds of rounds anyway. You can find it discounted most of the time and actually get it for a few bucks less.

NOTE: I have absolutely no association at all with Buffalo Bore and do not benefit weather or not you become a customer. I use the +P version myself and while stout out of a 2" Chief's, there is no better SD round you could use (out of a 2" Chief's - IMO) if you can deal with the recoil. Many do go to the standard velocity that is much less violent and still packs more punch than the Remington or Winchester +P version. You could also consider the excellent 135 grain +P Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel which produces almost the same exact velocity as the BB SV but has a great expansion and track record. The only caveat is that it weights 135 grains not 158.

Hope this helps,
Regards, Chief38


Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special Pistol & Handgun Ammunition


Heavy .38 Special +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

The standard pressure Buffalo Bore is my preferred version of the FBI load, but I'd be ok with the Remington +P version.

I once fired 5 rounds of the BB +P FBI load through my 642. My first thought: "Well, I'm never doing THAT again!" Fortunately, I still had a couple of steel K-frames at the time so the remaining rounds didn't go to waste. But the standard pressure BB FBI load is controllable in my 642, at least for me. If I run out of Speer SB-GDHP, I still have a box of BB to tide me over.

I have gotten use to shooting the BB +P (20A) load from my all steel M60-7. Years back I did commission custom made Ivory grips that are made to my hands specifications and are able to be used without the Tyler T adapter (which sometimes moves my hand too close to the trigger guard). These proper fitting grips (for me) allow me to deal with the recoil - and truly do not find it all that terrible to deal with. I would not want to shoot 50 of them at a session, but 5 or 10 won't ruin my penmanship.

I basically shoot hand loads for practice sessions and once in a while load up a cylinder full of the BB's for a reality check. If and when the day comes I can no longer deal with the recoil, then I will transition to either the standard velocity BB (20-c) or the Speer short barrel GD.

IMHO these 3 are the best of the best when it comes to a 2" .38 Special Chief's.

Yes the Remington FBI has a great or at least a GOOD street record, in all the years that it was used.

I might also add, that my old notes of the pre '98 load, show it doing 861fps out of a J frame snub nose.
I have no idea of what this load does in todays loading, since I now buy other SD ammo for my J frame.

Buffalo might be great stuff, just that I could not force myself to pay that much for less loadings.
Yes, some say price is no issue for a load that works.
Safe shooting.

Yes, the old Remington's performed much better than the more recent ones have. I actually chronographed the old and the new when Remington changed the packaging and the name a few years ago. They claimed it was the exact same load, but after shooting them through the Chronograph I can tell you they are full of it!

For what it's worth and while not the Remington load Georgia Arms does load a .38 Special, Plus P 158 grain LSWHP load which is available on their Website. I have shot them but not done anything else with them. Just food for thought ref availability.

And Georgia Arms are great ppl to deal with.

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Some Might Say.

Reading the thread, I had a thought: Even if the various "FBI loads" with the LSWCHP bullets don't expand very well,(?) with their higher velocity, wouldn't they be equally or more effective than the various full wadcutter target loads favored by some as good SD rounds, given correct placement?

I chronographed some of this through a 2” M60 two years ago and averaged 811 FPS.