|
|
01-18-2018, 11:34 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Very North Florida
Posts: 610
Likes: 1,806
Liked 317 Times in 120 Posts
|
|
Federal HST Micro
I recently saw this Federal ammo on this forum, Looked interesting, so i tried to order some from Midway, they advertised it as Federal HST Micro 129gr this was not +P.
I cannot find this ammo anywhere now, it seams to have changed to 130gr and is +P now. There is no sign of the original ammo.
Anyone see the original post???
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
|
01-18-2018, 12:01 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Too ashamed to say
Posts: 966
Likes: 1,041
Liked 1,791 Times in 618 Posts
|
|
I've seen 150gr but not 130gr HST Micro. Ah, that's the 38SPL round not the 9. Sorry. Still, the range tests say its not any better, but certainly more expensive, than regular HST out of short barrels.
__________________
Who watches the watchers?
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-18-2018, 12:52 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,572
Likes: 5,476
Liked 6,424 Times in 1,865 Posts
|
|
Walmart near me has 130 gr HST in 38 Special +P.
I think that's a fairly new load.
The bullet is set even with the top of the case like a wadcutter.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-18-2018, 01:19 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,405
Likes: 3,189
Liked 12,771 Times in 5,690 Posts
|
|
Some sites may have it listed as a 129 or 130 grain +P at 980fps, but...........
The "Real" Micro 130gr Federal HST bullet out of a S&W 642 does.................
804fps......... and is a "Standard loading".
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-18-2018, 05:52 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 273
Likes: 42
Liked 165 Times in 94 Posts
|
|
yeh, slap a fancy name on it,, put bunch of neat colors on the box,,
Jack the price sky high and rubes will line up to buy it
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
01-18-2018, 06:19 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Very North Florida
Posts: 610
Likes: 1,806
Liked 317 Times in 120 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by HelpingHarvey
|
Gave it a shot for the 129 non+P and bought one box
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
|
01-19-2018, 09:16 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,400
Likes: 3,245
Liked 4,624 Times in 1,697 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by PPS1980
I've seen 150gr but not 130gr HST Micro. Ah, that's the 38SPL round not the 9. Sorry. Still, the range tests say its not any better, but certainly more expensive, than regular HST out of short barrels.
|
The benefit of this round is NOT in superior performance vs the non-micro HST, but in the reduction in recoil (and muzzle flash).
Penetration and expansion is the same as their original product.
I've shot and carried the 9mm and .380 version since last summer.
__________________
Stay protected my friends.
Last edited by Protected One; 02-12-2018 at 09:48 PM.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
01-23-2018, 11:00 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Mos Eisley
Posts: 468
Likes: 2,276
Liked 982 Times in 308 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4d
yeh, slap a fancy name on it,, put bunch of neat colors on the box,,
Jack the price sky high and rubes will line up to buy it
|
I've never seen it
You've tested it?
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-25-2018, 12:59 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,405
Likes: 3,189
Liked 12,771 Times in 5,690 Posts
|
|
It has been tested on you-tube in a snub and 6" revolver.
Believe it or not, the fps out of the 6" revolver was SLOWER
than the 2" snub nose S&W.
Out of an 8" barrel, you may get a "Squib" ?
If testing fps, I would place a cinder block or other protection in front of the unit, for insurance!!
Last edited by Nevada Ed; 01-25-2018 at 01:03 PM.
|
01-25-2018, 01:19 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 267
Likes: 140
Liked 261 Times in 120 Posts
|
|
The FBI Load used to be and probably still is the industry standard .38 Special +P law enforcement round.
Last I've checked, a box of 50 was about 25 bucks. A box should last a lifetime...unless some fool decides to try to invade the USA. The reality is Kim Jung un is just bright enough to know the stupidity of his threats.
|
01-25-2018, 01:24 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 267
Likes: 140
Liked 261 Times in 120 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One
The benefit of this round is NOT in superior performance vs the non-micro HST, but in the reduction in recoil (and muzzle flash).
Penetration and expansion is the same as their original product.
I've shot and carried this since last summer.
|
If this is true, that this round does produce lower flash and reduced velocity, it should deserve consideration.
I have never fired either of my Chiefs at night. I have fired the FBI Load out of my Model 60. I can tell you that recoil is substantial, and I ain't recoil sensitive. I wouldn't even consider firing a .357 Mag out of a J Frame.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-25-2018, 02:28 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,609 Times in 660 Posts
|
|
Usually most products marketed as "low recoil" "short barrel" "micro" etc means that it's a reduced velocity load and online tests have shown time & time again that reduced velocity HP's don't perform. They need to exceed a certain threshold in order to expand if not then they act as if they're a FMJ and/or loss of adequate penetration.
Last edited by RGVshooter; 01-25-2018 at 02:29 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
02-12-2018, 09:06 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 9,101
Liked 3,216 Times in 1,123 Posts
|
|
Protected One,
PM inbound.
__________________
CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990
|
02-12-2018, 09:47 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,400
Likes: 3,245
Liked 4,624 Times in 1,697 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by REM 3200
Protected One,
PM inbound.
|
Reply inbound!
__________________
Stay protected my friends.
|
05-06-2018, 08:29 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Liked 20 Times in 15 Posts
|
|
Usually most products marketed as "low recoil" "short barrel" "micro" etc means that it's a reduced velocity load and online tests have shown time & time again that reduced velocity HP's don't perform. They need to exceed a certain threshold in order to expand if not then they act as if they're a FMJ and/or loss of adequate penetration.
TRUE and a recent test i saw it did not do to well. It was only running 810 to 820fps.And that was out of a shield.Weak lot or what i dont know? But it needs to hit on target at 870fps or better to be any good is my guess
|
05-09-2018, 06:41 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Coast of Ohio
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Liked 117 Times in 55 Posts
|
|
...And yet, the short barrel 135gn Gold Dot has a good street rep.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-17-2018, 11:51 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
|
|
Not too bad...
I have a friend that will save me "parts and the like" when he butchers a hog or beef. From ribs to shoulder bones to whatever. Gel tests will get my attention about something. If it looks promising in gel, I'll grab a box and hit him up. Took a box out with some Buffalo Bore and Critical Defense, hung some ribs with a shredded pair of jeans over them and water jugs behind. It's a .38...+P or standard, you're not gonna see bone splintering like it got hit by a 30.06, but it every bit, held it's own with my "best case scenario" expectations. I'm now a convert to it. Didn't necessarily out perform the Buffalo Bore, but the recoil was much more manageable for VERY similar results.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-30-2018, 12:22 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 9,101
Liked 3,216 Times in 1,123 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MA-double-T
I have a friend that will save me "parts and the like" when he butchers a hog or beef. From ribs to shoulder bones to whatever. Gel tests will get my attention about something. If it looks promising in gel, I'll grab a box and hit him up. Took a box out with some Buffalo Bore and Critical Defense, hung some ribs with a shredded pair of jeans over them and water jugs behind. It's a .38...+P or standard, you're not gonna see bone splintering like it got hit by a 30.06, but it every bit, held it's own with my "best case scenario" expectations. I'm now a convert to it. Didn't necessarily out perform the Buffalo Bore, but the recoil was much more manageable for VERY similar results.
|
Thanks for posting your review. I have some I want to carry in my Model 60,
but have been waiting for some test results to be posted.
Looks like I can go ahead and load them in the gun.
__________________
CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990
|
08-03-2018, 10:32 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 9,101
Liked 3,216 Times in 1,123 Posts
|
|
UPDATE: Found a lab test from Lucky Gunner where the Federal Micro 130 +P .38 Spl did very well in 2" and 4" tests.
Have a look for yourself: http://smith-wessonforum.com/redirec...est%2F%2338spl
__________________
CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-09-2018, 11:22 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 885
Likes: 1,070
Liked 1,750 Times in 579 Posts
|
|
Here's another Youtube gel test of the 130gr HST 38 SPL
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-10-2018, 09:53 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: High Desert of NM, USA
Posts: 6,259
Likes: 9,419
Liked 8,910 Times in 2,574 Posts
|
|
I've had a box for a few months now, but I keep forgetting to take it to the range to see how it does from my little .38s (so I just keep using the Speer short barrel 135-gr +P and Winchester 130-gr PDX). Tomorrow I hope to get out to the range - maybe I'll remember this ammo and the chrono . . . here's hoping, anyway.
__________________
Now go make God proud...
|
08-11-2018, 03:56 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 7,473
Likes: 14,584
Liked 9,310 Times in 3,723 Posts
|
|
While the old FBI load is not bad, it is 40+ year old technology. If you are not seeking out and reading Dr. Roberts' materials, you are missing the mark.
__________________
NHI, 10-8.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-11-2018, 10:31 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wrong side of Washington
Posts: 10,188
Likes: 13,015
Liked 17,127 Times in 5,143 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich
I've had a box for a few months now, but I keep forgetting to take it to the range to see how it does from my little .38s (so I just keep using the Speer short barrel 135-gr +P and Winchester 130-gr PDX). Tomorrow I hope to get out to the range - maybe I'll remember this ammo and the chrono . . . here's hoping, anyway.
|
Your results will be interesting. I’ve shot 20 rounds of this ammo through my Kimber K6. It shot to point of aim and grouped well.
__________________
Life Is A Gift. Defend it!
|
08-12-2018, 12:26 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: La Conner, WA
Posts: 2,136
Likes: 9,090
Liked 2,171 Times in 972 Posts
|
|
I have been caring it in my M442, but not shooting it!
Was down to my last 5 rounds, until I found some at Walmart.
Seems to group as well as I can shoot, at about POA.
Recoil not too bad.
I practice with 125 gr plated over a starting load of HP-38.
My old hands are not up to too much of any kind of plus P, for long.
Best,
Rick
|
08-12-2018, 07:28 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: High Desert of NM, USA
Posts: 6,259
Likes: 9,419
Liked 8,910 Times in 2,574 Posts
|
|
Well, meh.
It shot fine, but wasn't as accurate from my 2.1" 640-1 as either my homemade defensive wadcutter load or the old standby Winchester PDX 130-gr +P. I doubt the bullet is more magicky than the PDX or the Gold Dot load, so . . . meh. Glad to have another horse on the track, for sure, though.
Range 5950'>sea level, c. 83 degrees F, c. 40% humidity:
First, just for kicks, I ran some .38 Spl +P 125-grain handloads (Berry's plated bullets, 9.8 gr 2400, Fed SPP), which did M 854.9/S 60.64/D 24.41.
Next the Federal HST Micro 130-gr +P rounds that are the focus of this thread: M 838.9/S 29.40/D 12.80. Shot okay, but not a group with any wow factor.
More impressive (and slightly more accurate from this gun) were the Winchester PDX 130-gr +P Ranger loads: M 902.0/S 60.61/D 24.71.
Most accurate were my handloaded Defensive Wadcutter rounds (5.1 gr Unique/TVB hardcast 148-gr): M 934.0/S 59.64/D 24.22.
They'd all be fine. Again, not blown away by the new Federal loading, but glad there's another horse on the track.
__________________
Now go make God proud...
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-21-2018, 05:06 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mid Tennessee
Posts: 267
Likes: 121
Liked 131 Times in 58 Posts
|
|
I switched from the Speer Short barrel +p to the Federal HST +p primarily due to recoil in my 340. BY the way, do not shoot 158 357 out of a J frame scandium, for me it was a BIG mistake!
|
08-21-2018, 05:25 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 31,000
Likes: 41,665
Liked 29,249 Times in 13,829 Posts
|
|
It would probably be more reliable.....
...to buy it off the net rather that hoping the LGS will stock it.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
|
08-21-2018, 06:07 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northwest MT
Posts: 2,457
Likes: 9,823
Liked 3,352 Times in 1,336 Posts
|
|
Thanks for the reports. Yesterday, I picked up some HST Micro in 9mm, as well as .38+P for range work. Worth checking out.
|
08-21-2018, 07:46 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 3,312
Likes: 1,766
Liked 7,295 Times in 1,901 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by REM 3200
|
Aaaaand this is why I carry this in my 442-1. The picture with the expanded projectiles is particularly telling. It is the modernized "flying ashtray" like the old backward hollow base wadcutter.
All this "I'm not sure how it really would work" is nonsense when there's data like what Luckygunner has put together. Sure , it's more expensive than LRN or semi-wadcutter ammo, but I'm not sure why anyone would skimp on their carry ammo?
Sure, the old ammo works...it consistently puts .36 wide holes in targets. The HST expands to .73...the same diameter as a 12g shotgun slug. Let that sink in for a minute.
__________________
Psalm 27:2
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-11-2018, 02:17 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 16
Likes: 1
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
|
|
If I were to ever run out of the 135 grain Gold Dots, and couldn't replenish, I would probably give these a go as soon as anything else currently available.
|
09-11-2018, 07:48 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Highlands, North Carolina
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 2,096
Liked 2,202 Times in 883 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich
Well, meh.
It shot fine, but wasn't as accurate from my 2.1" 640-1 as either my homemade defensive wadcutter load or the old standby Winchester PDX 130-gr +P. I doubt the bullet is more magicky than the PDX or the Gold Dot load, so . . . meh. Glad to have another horse on the track, for sure, though.
Range 5950'>sea level, c. 83 degrees F, c. 40% humidity:
First, just for kicks, I ran some .38 Spl +P 125-grain handloads (Berry's plated bullets, 9.8 gr 2400, Fed SPP), which did M 854.9/S 60.64/D 24.41.
Next the Federal HST Micro 130-gr +P rounds that are the focus of this thread: M 838.9/S 29.40/D 12.80. Shot okay, but not a group with any wow factor.
More impressive (and slightly more accurate from this gun) were the Winchester PDX 130-gr +P Ranger loads: M 902.0/S 60.61/D 24.71.
Most accurate were my handloaded Defensive Wadcutter rounds (5.1 gr Unique/TVB hardcast 148-gr): M 934.0/S 59.64/D 24.22.
They'd all be fine. Again, not blown away by the new Federal loading, but glad there's another horse on the track.
|
I usually carry a 3" M29 or a 3" M629 with 200gr Gold Dots from Underwood. However, when I can't risk the possibility of being spotted carrying I carry one of my M36's. I reverse these hollow base WC's and tune them to run @round 850fps for a wonderfully destructive loading. Buy a 100 and try them for yourself!
152 Grain Hollow Base Wadcutter (.359) [359-152-HBWC] - $16.00 : Matts Bullets
|
09-11-2018, 09:47 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: High Desert of NM, USA
Posts: 6,259
Likes: 9,419
Liked 8,910 Times in 2,574 Posts
|
|
I've never found reversed hollow base wadcutters to actually be all that useful, even though I've seen the articles of people doing it since I started reading gun magazines in the Seventies. The modern hollow points work great, though I've got nothing in particular against a good old fashioned hardcast bullet (like the Tennessee Valley Bullets ones I use in my defensive wadcutter loading that I've been discussing here for more than a dozen years).
__________________
Now go make God proud...
Last edited by Erich; 09-11-2018 at 09:51 AM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-11-2018, 10:38 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,233
Likes: 2,809
Liked 5,794 Times in 1,452 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jculloden
I recently saw this Federal ammo on this forum, Looked interesting, so i tried to order some from Midway, they advertised it as Federal HST Micro 129gr this was not +P.
I cannot find this ammo anywhere now, it seams to have changed to 130gr and is +P now. There is no sign of the original ammo.
Anyone see the original post???
|
150 in stock: 38 Special Ammo - Federal HST Personal Defense Micro 130gr JHP - 20 Rounds
if anyone is interested
|
09-11-2018, 11:35 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 129
Likes: 237
Liked 113 Times in 54 Posts
|
|
I didn't get 15 FPS difference between the Speer Gold Dots and the HST's out of my model 36 and the HST recoiled less.
|
09-19-2018, 06:42 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,405
Likes: 3,189
Liked 12,771 Times in 5,690 Posts
|
|
I just think that a 38 snub nose shooting JHP bullets, needs at least....
880fps and I would feel a lot better if they did 905fps, for the pedals to fold back, 99% of the time.
Calling the "Micro" 38 a +P load at just 820fps is skating on thin ice
in my mind.
However the low recoil, is a GOOD thing.
|
09-20-2018, 09:51 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: High Desert of NM, USA
Posts: 6,259
Likes: 9,419
Liked 8,910 Times in 2,574 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed
Calling the "Micro" 38 a +P load at just 820fps is skating on thin ice
in my mind.
|
I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China.
SAAMI requires its members to list the pressure of the load being sold correctly, so I would assume the pressure of this loading is in the ".38 Special +P" range, regardless of the velocities it produces in a given gun.
Incidentally, I wound up putting this load in a Model 36 snub I keep around the house, just because the gun was out at the same time as this box of ammo. I'm sure it'll do fine if called upon.
__________________
Now go make God proud...
Last edited by Erich; 09-20-2018 at 09:53 AM.
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|