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03-30-2018, 11:42 PM
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.44 Special
Found an old box of .44 Special today at the A.A.C.C.A. gun show. Any idea how old these are?
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03-31-2018, 08:10 AM
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26 gr of powder??? Would that be BP?
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03-31-2018, 10:38 AM
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Wish I had the New Century "Central Fire" to go with that
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03-31-2018, 11:21 AM
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I think you have a box of black powder cartridges, probably dating to early 1900's (pre-WW1 years). Conserve and protect! I would try to locate a collector who could display that box with an appropriate early revolver.
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03-31-2018, 11:54 AM
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The .44 Special was introduced in 1908 as a black powder cartridge for the S&W New Century (Triple Lock), which is what you have. In 1912, Remington bought Union Metallic Cartridge, so I think your ammo is from the 1908-1912 era.
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03-31-2018, 12:20 PM
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It is my understanding that the .44 Special was developed in 1907 and has always been a smokeless powder cartridge.
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03-31-2018, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
It is my understanding that the .44 Special was developed in 1907 and has always been a smokeless powder cartridge.
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I have heard of some Triple Locks being shipped in 1907 (possibly as prototypes for testing, so they would have needed ammo), but I don't think it was commercially available until 1908. It was definitely a black powder loading originally, since S&W didn't approve their products for smokeless powder until 1909. I think BP loads were commercially available until WW II.
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03-31-2018, 12:55 PM
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Some more information about this. The US military tested the Triple Lock in 1907, but these guns were chambered for a cartridge similar to the .45 Schofield, not the .44 Special. They were probably manufactured in 1906, since the tests started in January 1907. These were definitely prototypes, since they were not commercially available.
There are some on this forum who have considerable expertise on this subject and may even own some of the Army test revolvers, so maybe they will comment on this subject.
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04-02-2018, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
It is my understanding that the .44 Special was developed in 1907 and has always been a smokeless powder cartridge.
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That's what I've always read and the .38 Spl too. Yet I've seen people post on here that isn't true. So, which is true?
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04-02-2018, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joed49
That's what I've always read and the .38 Spl too. Yet I've seen people post on here that isn't true. So, which is true?
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According to Philip B. Sharpe in his classic "Complete Guide to Handloading", both were initially loaded with BP.
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04-03-2018, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homie
According to Philip B. Sharpe in his classic "Complete Guide to Handloading", both were initially loaded with BP.
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Proof is in the size (volume) of the case.
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04-03-2018, 08:27 PM
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^^^ I have read that the first smokeless powders were very bulky; hence the large case. So, who really knows???
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04-03-2018, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
^^^ I have read that the first smokeless powders were very bulky; hence the large case. So, who really knows???
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That's what I thought too. Live and learn.
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04-03-2018, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
^^^ I have read that the first smokeless powders were very bulky; hence the large case. So, who really knows???
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Two of the first smokeless revolver powders are still in use today, Bullseye and Unique. They were introduced in the 1898-1900 era and are certainly not bulky. You may be thinking of the long-gone Semi-smokeless powder, which was bulky. Both the .38 Special (1899) and the .44 Special (1908) were originally designed as black powder cartridges. This is well documented in authoritative works on the history of S&W, where these cartridges were designed and the original guns were manufactured for them.
Some confusion may arise from the fact that the smokeless and black powder eras overlapped and smokeless loads were available soon after the introduction of these cartridges. As I mentioned previously, S&W did not approve smokeless loads for their guns until 1909, so both of these cartridges must have been designed for black powder since S&W designed them well before 1909.
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04-03-2018, 10:41 PM
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Using FFg black powder you can place 18 grains in the .38 Colt case and seat a 145 grain LRN on top with no airspace. (BP loads cannot have air in the cartridge, this is why (9 grains FFg) .32 S&Ws are tiny and (13-13.5 grains FFg) .38 Short Colts and S&Ws aren't that much bigger, they PERFECTLY fit the proper charge.)
S&W took the .38 Govt aka .38 Colt, Long Colt is a modern term, and lenthened the case to fill at 21.5 grains of FFg under a 158 grain LRN. The birth of the .38 S&W Special.
Unique and Bullseye are two of the oldest smokeless powders, over 100 years and IF there has been any improvement its incremental. (Small increments at that. JMO, those two and 2400, its just about all one needs.)
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Last edited by TomkinsSP; 04-03-2018 at 10:56 PM.
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