I have a 4" M66, that I plan on carrying during fishing and hiking trips, in the mountains and streams of Colorado. I imagine my most likely threat will come from an unattended dog, or 3. Encounter with an evil 2-legged critter is also a possibility. Not too worried about bears or lions, although, they, or an angry moose are possible. What would be a good round, to carry? Different rounds, in a specified order in the cylinder?
Any help appreciated.
Regards,
George

I'm old school. I like 158gr JSP's in all my .357's

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Forum consigliere

Ditto..... for carry in Penn's Woods....... good all purpose round.

GTO in my 3 or 4 inch 66 or in my Winchester Trapper or Ruger 77/357 carbines

1-2 rounds of snake shot, & the rest 158/180 gr hard cast.

I’m partial to 158 gr hard cast swc.

You can pot a bunny or blue grouse for lunch or deal with a black bear, moose or bipedal beastie. Won’t wreck lunch with too much expansion and will penetrate and smash bone in large animals.

I certainly wouldn’t carry bird/snake shot in any chambers. You’re talking Colorado mountains: snakes aren’t an issue.

Go to a zoo and watch the animals move and visualize where you'd place defensive shots on them.

I certainly wouldn't discount a cougar attack.

If your gun doesn't suffice, like if it's knocked out of your hand or malfunctions (unlikely with your M-66), a suitable knife is in order.

I know of two cougars who were dealt with via knives. Also, look up Harry Wolhuter on Wiki. Read about how his knife saved him from an African lion. Very stirring story!

In your shoes, I'd probably choose my M-66-3 and load with a 165 grain round that Remington made. May still. I have a box. It's constructed for deer hunting. Otherwise, I'd use 158 grain JSP or my usual 158 grain Federal Hydra-Shoks. Their PR man said it works well on deer.

I like Winchester's 145 grain Silvertips, but for men and other relatively small targets. I'd want more penetration on big stuff.

Moose can be very dangerous, as can elk in the rut. Try to avoid them. The long, sloping shape of the of their heads makes a handgun shot difficult.

I think Buffalo Bore makes a hard-cast .357 load. Might want to check that out.

Best be lugging a riot shotgun, alternating slug and 00 Buck to cover all threats, Pilgrim...or carry some bear spray, along with a full load of hard cast in your 66 The former would be preferable in AK, but I think the latter will fulfill your needs. Make lots of noise when traveling through brushy terrain around streams and other water sources to warn critters out of the way. Seriously, the safest way to travel in wild backcountry would be to partner up, in case of an accident or a medical problem...a piece of wisdom I often ignore. Have fun, and good luck fishing.

I like a number of those suggestions. I am mostly indifferent to the specific bullet as long as it is not a lightweight round. Some kind of solids are probably best and in the 147 or 158 grain variety although I would not gainsay a top quality hollow point, either. The concept of snakeshot is good but the problem is that if you are concerned about serious threats you probably don't want two rounds of snake shot coming up before the hard bullets are available. If the Colorado mountains don't have dangerous snakes (I have no idea) then it is a moot issue. But, if that's a concern, some smaller gun with snakeshot might be useful if your dress, strength, and equipment package permit that.

Different rounds in a specified order only works when you know what is coming. If you do not know, which is obviously the case, six rounds of heavy hitting .357 that are all the same will be just fine. I would not discount lions and bears - I don't know what part of the woods you are going to be in but in my experience in northwest Colorado lions and bears are far more common than moose.

I personally like your choice of sixgun. A 4" .357 Magnum has always been my choice for the bear woods (so many bear threads, so little time ) whether it is a K, L, or N frame, or similar Ruger, for example (Ns are a little much in the weight department for trudging in the woods but they are excellent for the situations we are referring to).

Never forget that knife..........!

I use speed gold dot 158gr deepcurls.

I recently purchased some of the Buffalo Bore 180 grain hardcast ammunition for my Ruger GP-100 3 inch to use while hiking in Vermont.

Don’t worry about snakes. Even on the plains where you may encounter them, you can just go around. In the mountains, your most likely threat will ne mountain lions, and they are very rare. Anything you feel would be an adequate defense for two legged vermin would serve you well. Stay away from moose.

I guess I should seriously consider the possibility of a moose encounter. They are plentiful in the mountains of central Colorado. I even saw one in Fort Collins, early one morning in June, last year, while leaving on a fishing trip.
And a 90pound lioness was caught in the apartments, across from the police station, several years ago.
Thanks for all the input!

For the K-frame S&W's my go-to ammo has always been .38 Special +P with 158 grain semi-wadcutters. Although I carry a .45 just about all the time for the past 20 years or so I still burn up a couple thousand +P .38's every year staying current with the 6" Model 19, 4" Model 66, 2" Model 64 and a few other revolvers. The Model 19 and Model 66 both see some use in the woods while hunting, camping, fishing, etc.

I handload 158 cast SWC's by the thousand. Range loads are 5.0 grains Unique, +P loads are 5.4 grains Unique. Either one makes a good general purpose loading for the steel framed K-frame revolvers.

I have encountered rattlesnakes in the Colorado mountains at elevations above 8000 feet. I would not discount the possibilities of rattlesnakes just about anywhere in Colorado where there are mice, packrats, or other little critters they can dine on. A good walking stick can be real handy anytime you need to go through brushy terrain; mine is about 5 feet long and can be used to rattle the brush several feet ahead before I step into something I don't want to get close to.

Dont think a rat shot loaded gun would do u any good against a snake,, except maybe to kill it after it bit you.
Not like they gonna come charging you. Seems if u got time to draw you got time to step back. Pretty much all a snake wants u to do anyways.
Most snake bite victims are bit cause they were dicking around with the snake.
But as the poster above mentioned a hard cast 158-170 gr SWC bullet is really hard to beat as a do anything bullet in 357

Even though I am an avid reloader and practice with reloaded ammo 99% of the time, when in the woods with my M65 I carry Factory Buffalo Bore .357 Mag. 180 grain hard cast LSWC. They are just awesome performers, consistent, accurate and reliable and I can not come up with a better hand load that would perform better against Bears. I do not use reloads for CCW, SD, HD or Woods carry - but that's just me.

357 hornady custom 158 xtp. would be my choice for woods walking with the treats you describe . deep penetration with controlled expansion .

Ive been reloading for my M60 3" sixgun for years. It is a perfect concealed carry weapon in the potent 357mag class. But I do not enjoy shooting it at full 357mag power. I adjusted down to what I would call is 38+p loads say 950fp using 158gr slugs. Hornady XTP are good as are Rem SJSPs. 12gr of 2400 or 6.2gr of W-231 get you there with tight accuracy. If you don't have accuracy you have nothing but noise. I use 180s in my Marlin 1894 carbine but that's for big game out to 100 yards. A bit much out of small revolvers.As for snakes just walk around or back up from them on the trail, no need to shoot them. back pack of the usual supplies and your good to go.

Personally even though the 357 is adequate for some protection...the mountain country just north of you all in Colorado is complete with grizzlies. I even hear stories they are in the back country down there. Though the 357 is better than rocks I would go somewhat larger. If not then the heavier loads like the 180 gr Buffalo Bore loads would be the better choice. I know of two locals that even feel adequately armed with 10mm Glocks. I myself carry either a M57 or 58. I also agree with the statement that you may have more concerns with 2 legged critters than 4 legged. I can say shooting in defense of your life is nothing like shooting targets. And most instances will be at very close range. Practice hitting what you look at...and where you look. Sights are almost an after thought at such ranges

I used to like the 158 gr. LSWCHP (FBI) and 125 gr. JHP for self-defense. I really liked the old 137 gr. JSP Lee Jurras Super Vel. It proved its worth on Texas deer. Nowadays I am partial to this round. I think it should handle any menace, be it animal or human. 357 Magnum 140 Grain Xtreme Penetrator – Underwood Ammo

Super Vel..I also used some of his ammo. Still have a few boxes and some partials too. It was not always the most accurate ammo though. I always thought their pressures were pretty high

Like others here have said, 158 grain and up. If you go light in a .357 you might as well carry a 9mm.

I have become a huge fan of the 180gr Coated Cast Bullet from Missouri Bullet. Was looking for a Hog Hunting Load and the 180 Cast was recommended. It is very accurate and I think would make a good all around woods carry round.

I reload 38/357 and when I'm out N' about in the woods I carry a 4" 686 loaded up with 6 of my reloads.

180gr Hornady XTP
12.5gr H110
OAL 1.590"

TBH I've never seen a snake charging someone or deliberately trying to bite them. I cannot see the need for a defensive shooting of a snake. Just walk away...step to the side maybe? I like snakes and can't understand why so many people kill them on sight.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

Well I leave most snakes alone even here in Wy and have always found them fascinating...but rattlesnakes here are on the list of what needs killing. Especially around the house. We also have scorpions(small ones) and they have to go.. so do black widows. Had one dog bitten by a rattler. It survived(at a significant expense) but was never really the same after the experience. I also do not like those transplanted wolves in my yard. They have no fear of humans yet. I fear the native wolves have been killed off by the transplants

First of all, you have an excellent revolver for just about any use you might find for a handgun in the woods/fields. It sounds like most of your concern is with feral dogs and such varmints. Having carried and used a .357 S&W Magnum for years in the woods I'd suggest you load up with whatever is the heaviest most powerful accurate load you can handle well. The 66 is a very fine pistol. The four inch is about the easiest to carry. Touching off heavy magnum loads if you have little or no experience with them will prove exciting. In the event you need to pop a pooch quickly, repeat shots might be a bit of a handful. Good heavy loaded .38 Plus P ammo would work well and allow for faster recovery for a repeat shot or two. You might want to look at Buffalo Bore and see what they offer. I will say, the need for a cannon is highly overrated when it comes to killing game. One of my church members is a hog hunter par excellent. He hunts with dogs. His weapon of choice is a plain Jane S&W Victory model ... loaded with standard lead 158 gr. ammo. Hard to argue with his success. He shoots and they fall down. Load your 66 up with whatever is the heaviest load you can handle well and you will be well prepared for any eventuality you might encounter while on a walkabout. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

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You've never been around a cottonmouth moccasin have you?

173 grain Keith / 13.5 of 2400

All that needs to be said

If it hasn't been mentioned, there's Garrett ammo not far from you in Idaho? I think.
I bought some .44mag and 45-70 super-hard cast Hammerheads from them for my Alaska trips.
I'm pretty sure he makes them in .357 also.
It would be hard to find a better penetrating heavy load.

Ditto ! Killed one yesterday that was coming after me. He didn't quite make it. And no I wasn't crossing his path or bothering it. Moccasins don't need a reason to chase you I actually think they like to do it.

This time of year they are very aggressive, at least they are here in Louisiana.

For what it's worth here in Louisiana our biggest threat is moccasins,hogs,bugs,and humidity. I just use my M66 or M10 loaded with 158 grain Buffalo Bore .38 special LSWC-HC.

Occasionally I'll load my M66 with 158gr JSP's.

Seems to work good on the smaller creatures we have in the woods and swamps here.

I find that the American Eagle .357 158 gr JSP is an outstanding "general purpose" load for non-urban carry here in Colorado.

- Available pretty much anywhere ammo is sold (Walmart, Sportsman's Warehouse, Cabelas, JAX).
- Low-cost encourages practice with the same load you are carrying.
- Relatively deep penetration suitable for feral dogs, mountain lions and black bear.

Nothing wrong with something like a 180 gr hard cast, just harder to gain and maintain proficiency when 20 rounds of that costs more than 50 rd of the AE.

I've caught a lot of snakes, mostly Copper Heads and a few
Rattlesnakes- not counting non poisonous varieties. I never did
handle a Cotton Mouth but I've shot a few. I don't believe I've
every shot a snake that I had to. I will shot poison snakes in
areas they may be a threat to people.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/

I carry Hornady FTX+P in my snubby

I just Googled Moose Attack’s in Colorado. Maybe 3 per year. Interesting fact that dogs are often what instigates a moose attack. Moose view all dogs as wolves. Momma Moose does not like dogs. Your dog encounters a moose, gets startled and runs back to you. With an angry moose close behind.

Ps. I could definitely see my pack of fools doing just that. 😯

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Just hanging with my dogs

This has been an interesting thread and very timely for me. I just purchased a GP100 for a walk around the woods gun and was thinking about loads. I find it remarkable that so many recommend heavier bullets for critters that don't weigh much more that a human.

I have a Ruger M77/357 and use the Hornady 158 XTP hollow points with a stiff charge of H-110 in it. This combination works great on deer. I had read that the hollow point would blow up on game if used out of a rifle. That has not been my experience as all my bullets have passed through the animal. .

I may try this load in the GP100. This is not a light weight revolver so recoil may not be too bad. It would be nice to use the same load in both guns. Thoughts?

Don't know which round is up next??? I can't imagine anyone with ANY revolver experience, NOT knowing this.

***Different rounds in a specified order only works when you know what is coming. If you do not know, which is obviously the case, ***

For any critter that needs shooting, adequate penetration is priority one! That leaves out the lighter weight more frangible bullets, at least if you wish to be certain. The 158 grain semi wadcutters or jacketed soft points will do just fine on most critters, with the other harder hitting rounds mentioned also on the list of things that will work.

Remember that you must place your bullets accurately on the target, especially the second or third or ?? ones which might be needed on larger animals. Unless a major nerve center or weight bearing bone is shattered, it takes several very long seconds before a critter will bleed out and collapse. One that shoots back or continues it's attack can do a tremendous amount of damage to you in that extra fifteen or so seconds before collapse!

The advice given to shoot something that you can handle well and accurately for as many rounds as the gun holds is excellent advice. Shot to shot recovery time is also important. An adrenalin dump, common in these kinds of incidents, is a given, and things don't go as smoothly as when standing on the range shooting at a stationary target. It's important not to get caught woolgathering by a predator or other creature prone to attacking humans, defensively or not!

The 158 grain loadings mentioned, will also do the job nicely on smaller critters while being likely sufficient on the larger ones, IF the bullet(s) land in the right spot, and that is the challenge! Remember, the "target" is very likely to moving! Try hard to be aware of a potential threat as early in the game as possible when out and about. It's almost impossible to catch up when you are surprised at very close range!

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So long ... Ken

...double ought buck in one barrel...

...and a slug in the other...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

I took it as “what danger is coming next”. In other words not wanting to shoot a couple rounds of rat shot at a bear or moose before the solids.

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Jim

If there is any realistic possibility of tangling with a bear I would recommend a relatively heavy solid of some sort, a hard-cast 158 grain SWC being pushed hard should do it. Big cats are not that hard to kill, they are hard to hit. I suspect you are right and you are likely in more danger from a pack of semi-feral dogs or feral humans.

Ditto on the 158 Gr. JSP. That covers just about every possibility. Black bears are generally not aggressive and cougars are usually terrified of adult humans. Forget the snake shot. I grew up in Colorado and live in Arizona now. Snakes are only as dangerous as you are stupid.

Up in the mountains I would not carry shot cartridges because the odds of running into a rattler is not very high. However around the house and out in my dry ground I do carry snake shot. Heck even if they rattle and warn me I'd probably never hear the buzz. I'm also not too fearful of black bear attacks...but my Tlinglit friend in Alaska told me...if a black bear attacks he intends to kill you and possibly eat ya too.....but he lived in an area where black bears had killed and eaten people. Or so he said...

Although it might help. Let's be real, sometimes while out in the woods, say hunting, you want to be as quiet & stealthy as able. OR you may be walking along staring at your feet & momentarily forget to watch EXACTLY where you put each and every step. The snake chaps mfgr's & people that wear them ARE ALL WRONG??? Granted the mountains of northern Co may not be rattler central, & I DO NOT advocate killing EVERY snake EVERYWHERE, just the poisonous ones posing a threat to me, dogs, livestock or invading MY territory. YES when in known snake country, (& pretty much everywhere) it would be wise to be careful where you place your hands & feet. If bitten it would be a good thing to be able to have the culprit to show the medics, what type of snake bit you. I'm not convinced snakeshot has the penetration to kill a big snake. Easier to hit it, YES.

Oh yes snakeshot will kill even a large snake...ask my wife. Maybe not the 22 caliber stuff...but the centerfire stuff will. And yeah not everyone is always aware of what may be around. My grandkids may play in the yard. I have had a close encounter with a seriously PO'd snake I didn't know was out there. You think it can't happen to YOU?? Right

I've been mainly disappointed with the performance of .357 Magnum JHPs on deer and wild boar, but then I am pretty picky. Like Elmer Keith; "I like to do *all* of my hunting *before* I shoot."

That said, I did have good results with the Barnes Vor-TX 140 gr in a 6" barrel - in fact got two deer with one shot (the second was totally unintentional and, frankly embarrassing that I did not notice it behind the first one).

Mind you I had already shot one of them with that load through both lungs at 60 yards and it ran closer to me, not knowing where I was.

Still that is about the best performance I've seen. Barring that, in factory ammo, the Silver Tip seems OK (thought not for really big animals like bear or moose) and Winchester 158 JHP seems to be a fairly hot load - it does expand (a friend shot a wild boar 4 times with that load and 3 of them stayed in - it was not a big boar (maybe dressed 150 lbs). All 4 hit the heart (they were shot over a time of about 30 seconds and he even had time to reload his revolver - but did not shoot after that since we noticed the boar was getting pretty wobbly on his feet).

I would probably second the above recommendations for a good hard cast flat point bullet - either SWC or Wide Flat Nose (WFN) - if you don't handload I think Buffalo Bore and Underwood make them.

Going that way I'd even consider .38 Spl. - I had a 173 gr. SWC loaded to 900 fps go through an 18" stack of wet newsprint and then 4" more into soft dirt - typical .357 125 JHPs are doing well to get 7" penetration into wet newsprint (Cor-bon DPX and some of the medium loads do a little better).

While I like to let out a lot of blood and let in a lot of air, adequate penetration with excellent placement seems to be the key to success in stopping critters (both 2 and 4 legged) the fastest. Rapidly expanding bullets sure put the kibosh on penetration.

Good luck in your quest!

Riposte1

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