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Old 05-01-2018, 04:42 PM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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Default Why is ammo still so much more expensive?

I know Obama did some things to affect prices with regulations on shipping an manufaxturing and, of course, the big ammo rush from a few years ago when gun rigts were threatened.
But i was just online window shopping and the big three (winchester, remington and federal) have ammo that is anywhere from .75 to $1.10 a round. I remember when such was limited to stuff like Buffalo Bore. Those companies used to be more like .15-30 cents a round.

I’m so glad I got into reloading years ago. Pays for itself mire and more each year. But for defense ammo...it’s ridiculous. You’d think under a “conservative” house/senate/white house things would reverse

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Old 05-01-2018, 05:00 PM
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Good salesmaship. Everyone is looking for a cartridge which is as lethal as a mini-nuclear weapon, believes all the advertising, and is willing to pay whatever the price. Seems that at every SHOT show there is a new crop of (expensive) ammunition using much nastier-performing bullets and everyone simply must have some. Anyone seen those bullets which have little scoops on the nose which will turn a BG's guts into the consistency of whipped cream? Gottahavesome!! So what if they are $2 each.

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Old 05-01-2018, 05:03 PM
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While the ammo makers can and do manipulate prices, the high prices of the raw materials comes into play, raw copper is high, brass is high. no getting around the prices of raw materials.
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:10 PM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Good salesmaship. Everyone is looking for a cartridge which is as lethal as a mini-nuclear weapon, believes all the advertising, and is willing to pay whatever the price. Seems that at every SHOT show there is a new crop of (expensive) ammunition using much nastier-performing bullets and everyone simply must have some. Anyone seen those bullets which have little scoops on the nose which will turn a BG's guts into the consistency of whipped cream? Gottahavesome!! So what if they are $2 each.
Actually, I’m not talking about any new super bullet that blows up cars and makes heads explode.

I’m talking about tried and true rounds from said companies that have been arond for a half a century. Such as:.38 Spl in LRN, LHP IN 158 gr or 125 gr SJHP scalloped bullets or .357 Magnum 125 gr SJHP scalloped bullets or 180 gr.
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:18 PM
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Inflation?

They raised the prices when materials were scarce and now they are keeping those prices?

Pick one, or both...........
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:21 PM
italiansport italiansport is offline
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IMO:There's no good reason for regular shooters to pay for factory ammo such as the 38spl. It's easy to reload and will cost about half of the factory fodder.
Jim
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
Inflation?

They raised the prices when materials were scarce and now they are keeping those prices?

Pick one, or both...........
Just as gas prices go up when it is summer, ammo has learned what the market will tolerate.

I also think the increase in raw materials costs are a factor.
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Old 05-01-2018, 08:53 PM
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Besides the increase in raw materials, I kinda suspect the ammo companies found what the wholesalers were willing to pay during the shortage years. They found no reason to reduce their margins back to the razor thinness that they were operating at prior to the shortages, just back far enough to balance supply with demand. Business is all about profit.
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Old 05-01-2018, 09:10 PM
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Shooters did it to themselves by buying in hoards at scalpers prices . They saw we were willing to do now we have to live with it.

Last edited by Laketime; 05-02-2018 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 05-01-2018, 09:17 PM
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I don't agree that ammo prices are high. Current ammo prices are close to the lowest they've been in many years. Some current examples:

.38 Special 158 grain LRN - 0.23 per round
9 mm 115 grain FMJ - 0.18 per round
.45 ACP 230 grain FMJ - 0.26 per round

These are bulk prices from several online vendors. Even many of the high price self defense rounds are available in 50 round boxes at 0.50 - 0.60 per round.

Lead prices are about $1.06 per pound now and have been between 0.91 and 1.21 in the past year. The cost of the lead in a box of .38 Special ammo is about $1.20, or about 10% of the cost, so small changes in lead prices don't have a big effect on ammo prices. It costs much more to produce, market, and ship ammo than the cost of the raw materials.

If I take the long view, when I started shooting in 1964 a box of 9 mm hardball was $4.75. Adjusting for inflation that would be more than $34 in todays dollars, but you can get the same ammo for $9.00 now. We're actually living in the Golden Age of ammo prices now.
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Old 05-01-2018, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSmith View Post
I don't agree that ammo prices are high. Current ammo prices are close to the lowest they've been in many years. Some current examples:

.38 Special 158 grain LRN - 0.23 per round
9 mm 115 grain FMJ - 0.18 per round
.45 ACP 230 grain FMJ - 0.26 per round

These are bulk prices from several online vendors. Even many of the high price self defense rounds are available in 50 round boxes at 0.50 - 0.60 per round.

Lead prices are about $1.06 per pound now and have been between 0.91 and 1.21 in the past year. The cost of the lead in a box of .38 Special ammo is about $1.20, or about 10% of the cost, so small changes in lead prices don't have a big effect on ammo prices. It costs much more to produce, market, and ship ammo than the cost of the raw materials.

If I take the long view, when I started shooting in 1964 a box of 9 mm hardball was $4.75. Adjusting for inflation that would be more than $34 in todays dollars, but you can get the same ammo for $9.00 now. We're actually living in the Golden Age of ammo prices now.
That's my experience as well.
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Old 05-01-2018, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSmith View Post
I don't agree that ammo prices are high. Current ammo prices are close to the lowest they've been in many years. ...

...

.... We're actually living in the Golden Age of ammo prices now.
My problem is that I shoot more now than I ever used to!
(Good thing I reload!)
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Old 05-01-2018, 09:56 PM
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Federal green-tip 5.56 is going for $300/1K; I
can recall maybe five years ago, you couldn't
find the cheapest Tula or Wolf 5.56 for under
$325/1K.
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Old 05-02-2018, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSmith View Post
I don't agree that ammo prices are high. Current ammo prices are close to the lowest they've been in many years. Some current examples:

.38 Special 158 grain LRN - 0.23 per round
9 mm 115 grain FMJ - 0.18 per round
.45 ACP 230 grain FMJ - 0.26 per round

These are bulk prices from several online vendors. Even many of the high price self defense rounds are available in 50 round boxes at 0.50 - 0.60 per round.

Lead prices are about $1.06 per pound now and have been between 0.91 and 1.21 in the past year. The cost of the lead in a box of .38 Special ammo is about $1.20, or about 10% of the cost, so small changes in lead prices don't have a big effect on ammo prices. It costs much more to produce, market, and ship ammo than the cost of the raw materials.

If I take the long view, when I started shooting in 1964 a box of 9 mm hardball was $4.75. Adjusting for inflation that would be more than $34 in todays dollars, but you can get the same ammo for $9.00 now. We're actually living in the Golden Age of ammo prices now.

I know there are a lot of Joe Blows Garage Ammo compaines in America or Chef BoyR D Fettuchinni compaines in Europr out there now that produce dirt cheap ammo on cheaperthandirt and midway. But Im talking about the above said American companies that have been known for 150 years
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Good salesmaship. Everyone is looking for a cartridge which is as lethal as a mini-nuclear weapon, believes all the advertising, and is willing to pay whatever the price. Seems that at every SHOT show there is a new crop of (expensive) ammunition using much nastier-performing bullets and everyone simply must have some. Anyone seen those bullets which have little scoops on the nose which will turn a BG's guts into the consistency of whipped cream? Gottahavesome!! So what if they are $2 each.
Bullets are all the same. It's all a marketing technique. Just like CREST brand toothpaste nowdays comes in 31 flavors...and you can get "tartar control" and "extra whitening" and "sensitive tooth formula" and "breath freshener"...plus different combos of the above. Forty years ago the original CREST did all those functions...alone. Same story with today's bullets. A bullet is nothing more than a piece of lead of a specific weight and diameter traveling at high velocity. It's that simple. I'll put my cast bullets from my 50 year old Lyman mold up against anything the market has to offer today...and they'll perform as well or better than anything gimmicky like Lehigh Defense has to offer.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:36 AM
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Albeit prices are not the best at the moment, the question I have is, how often are people purchasing personal defense ammo?

I have one box, and that's it. Well, and one clip already loaded with said ammo (Federal Premium 124 Grain HST).
All other ammo is range ammo; 'cheapish'.
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanwi11iams View Post
Albeit prices are not the best at the moment, the question I have is, how often are people purchasing personal defense ammo? I have one box, and that's it. Well, and one clip already loaded with said ammo (Federal Premium 124 Grain HST). All other ammo is range ammo; 'cheapish'.
And that "cheapish" range ammo will do just fine if called upon for self-defense.
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:56 PM
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I know there are a lot of Joe Blows Garage Ammo compaines in America or Chef BoyR D Fettuchinni compaines in Europr out there now that produce dirt cheap ammo on cheaperthandirt and midway. But Im talking about the above said American companies that have been known for 150 years
I don't know anything about Garage Ammo or ammo from Pasta factories, but American made 9 mm ammo from Federal, Winchester, Speer, and CCI is currently being sold for $0.18-0.20 per round at SGAmmo. In the last few months I bought 2000 rounds of Winchester .45 ACP Service Grade from them for $0.23 per round. They also have Speer Gold Dots in boxes of 50 at $0.60 per round and Remington Golden Sabers at $0.36 per round. Other online vendors may have similar prices.
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:59 PM
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And some folks just don't understand business and economics........

This isn't 20 years ago
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Old 05-02-2018, 09:14 PM
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I know there are a lot of Joe Blows Garage Ammo compaines in America or Chef BoyR D Fettuchinni compaines in Europr out there now that produce dirt cheap ammo on cheaperthandirt and midway. But Im talking about the above said American companies that have been known for 150 years
Where are you looking online. I don't even pay the prices your talking about at the Range for those brands.

Right now at my primary site, I can get Remington, Federal and Winchester 38 spcl for $0.26 or less, .357 magnum for $0.39 or under. I can even get Sig Sauer (which is pricey) for that. Remington 45acp for $0.23. 9mm similar. You get the point.

The only think I pay $0.70 or more a round for is some of the higher level 30-06 etc.
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Old 05-02-2018, 10:27 PM
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Im talking about tried and true rounds from said companies that have been arond for a half a century. Such as:.38 Spl in LRN, LHP IN 158 gr or 125 gr SJHP scalloped bullets or .357 Magnum 125 gr SJHP scalloped bullets or 180 gr.
Check out AmmoSeek...
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Old 05-02-2018, 10:28 PM
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Where are you looking online. I don't even pay the prices your talking about at the Range for those brands.
Maybe he shops at Academy?
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Old 05-03-2018, 10:05 AM
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I just ordered 350 rds. of: S&B 45 ACP FMJ 230 gr.@ $101.93 (.29 a rd.) from Brownells. Shipping was free!
Just goes to prove you can still get ammo at very reasonable prices if you shop around. Also, I did not have to buy it in large lots to receive Free shipping!
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Old 05-03-2018, 10:17 AM
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Maybe he shops at Academy?
I shop at Midway and cheaperthandirt online. Yes I occasionally stop by Acadamy
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Old 05-03-2018, 11:23 AM
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Because the buying public has demonstrated its willingness to pay the elevated prices. I get the importance of inflation and the other economic factors, but $25 - 30 for a box of .38 Special strikes me as a mite stiff. I suppose that's also why so many handgun cartridges are being offered in 20-round boxes.
Please pardon my grumping.

Larry
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Old 05-03-2018, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSmith View Post
I don't agree that ammo prices are high. Current ammo prices are close to the lowest they've been in many years. Some current examples:

.38 Special 158 grain LRN - 0.23 per round
9 mm 115 grain FMJ - 0.18 per round
.45 ACP 230 grain FMJ - 0.26 per round

These are bulk prices from several online vendors. Even many of the high price self defense rounds are available in 50 round boxes at 0.50 - 0.60 per round.

Lead prices are about $1.06 per pound now and have been between 0.91 and 1.21 in the past year. The cost of the lead in a box of .38 Special ammo is about $1.20, or about 10% of the cost, so small changes in lead prices don't have a big effect on ammo prices. It costs much more to produce, market, and ship ammo than the cost of the raw materials.

If I take the long view, when I started shooting in 1964 a box of 9 mm hardball was $4.75. Adjusting for inflation that would be more than $34 in todays dollars, but you can get the same ammo for $9.00 now. We're actually living in the Golden Age of ammo prices now.
I was going to say the same thing.

The only exception that I can find is 22LR. I looked up old orders from 2011 and I could buy a 5000 rd case of Blazer 22 for $149, now? I picked up a 5000 case for $199.

I think some people tend to look at things through rose colored glasses. I have a Shotgun news from mid 1996 and the ammo prices actually quite a bit higher than they are now (adjusted for inflation). The only exception to this was the combloc stuff, which was dirt cheap at the time.

At the moment, you just have to dig a bit to get good prices, I don't buy much ammo locally as you'll pay far more for it than from mail order places.
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Old 05-03-2018, 01:01 PM
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Im so glad I got into reloading years ago. Pays for itself mire and more each year. But for defense ammo...its ridiculous.
I reload and trust all my product.

Defense ammo is relative to bullet cost. About $.30 a loaded round for me.
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Old 05-03-2018, 01:13 PM
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Actually, Im not talking about any new super bullet that blows up cars and makes heads explode.

Im talking about tried and true rounds from said companies that have been arond for a half a century. Such as:.38 Spl in LRN, LHP IN 158 gr or 125 gr SJHP scalloped bullets or .357 Magnum 125 gr SJHP scalloped bullets or 180 gr.
One reason is because the big three have no interest in producing loads in .38/.357, like it or not those calibers are low volume items now days. The ratio of .38 to 9 MM has got to be huge.
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by apollo99 View Post
While the ammo makers can and do manipulate prices, the high prices of the raw materials comes into play, raw copper is high, brass is high. no getting around the prices of raw materials.
Lead comes to mind. 15 years ago, I was buying quality lead HARD shot in quantity for 8.00/25 lb bag. I was in a store the other day, and a bag was 46.00. Lead had a weak demand. Now everybody wants solar panels, and electric cars
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Good salesmaship. Everyone is looking for a cartridge which is as lethal as a mini-nuclear weapon, believes all the advertising, and is willing to pay whatever the price. Seems that at every SHOT show there is a new crop of (expensive) ammunition using much nastier-performing bullets and everyone simply must have some. Anyone seen those bullets which have little scoops on the nose which will turn a BG's guts into the consistency of whipped cream? Gottahavesome!! So what if they are $2 each.
How many of the enemy in WW1, ww2, Vietnam, Korea and other conflicts went down to the old hardball? Works fine for me, and I never doubt it. Many of our forces still carry it today. Sure maybe it is super duper, but I look at it like golf clubs. Forget what I told you last year, you gotta buy my new model. I will stick with hardball
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Old 05-06-2018, 02:38 PM
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Why is ammo still so much more expensive?  
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Originally Posted by Narragansett View Post
Lead comes to mind. 15 years ago, I was buying quality lead HARD shot in quantity for 8.00/25 lb bag. I was in a store the other day, and a bag was 46.00. Lead had a weak demand. Now everybody wants solar panels, and electric cars
See my post #10. The cost of the lead in a box of 158 grain .38 Special rounds is about $1.20 at today's prices, or about 10% of the total cost. Even if you could get lead at 15 year ago prices, it would only reduce the cost of a 50 round box by about $1.
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Old 05-06-2018, 03:05 PM
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Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive?  
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How many of the enemy in WW1, ww2, Vietnam, Korea and other conflicts went down to the old hardball? Sure maybe it is super duper, but I look at it like golf clubs. Forget what I told you last year, you gotta buy my new model.
Probably 40 years ago Federal had "Hydra-Shok", that post in the center promised instant lethality, pix to prove it. Then it was "HST" and naturally the "tactical" makes all the difference in the world. There is a "new and improved" HST so I should go to the range and do mag dumps until the 1K or so HST I got hanging about is gone. Probably take the rest of my remaining life @ 24 rds/yr to get it done. By then Federal will have 3 or 4 "new and improved" magic bullets. Joe
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  #33  
Old 05-11-2018, 03:28 PM
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Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive?  
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It's like gas prices. Once they know how much you'll pay, prices will never go down very much.
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Old 05-11-2018, 05:04 PM
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Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive?  
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Originally Posted by Doug.38PR View Post
I shop at Midway and cheaperthandirt online. Yes I occasionally stop by Acadamy
Midway has a great selection of shooting supplies but their ammo is overpriced unless its on sale or clearance. I haven't bought anything from Cheaper Than Dirt for at least 6 years, but their ammo prices can be easily beat.

Ammoseek.com will lead you to much cheaper options. I usually buy from SG Ammo, Selway, or use AmmoSeek to find something.

I regularly get emails from Midway for $100 off a case off 9mm or .223 ammo and it's still $30 over what can be easily found elsewhere.
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Old 05-11-2018, 05:20 PM
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Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive?  
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Default This is why.....

This is why I reload. It wouldn't take much to make ammo as unobtainable besides being as expensive as it was during the shortages the middle part of this decade.

Also, I'm not limited to what I can find on store shelves.

I buy some ammo but a preponderance of it comes from my home factory.
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  #36  
Old 05-15-2018, 01:22 PM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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I reload and trust all my product.

Defense ammo is relative to bullet cost. About $.30 a loaded round for me.
You carry reloads for self defense on the street? You don't worry about getting sued if you have to use your gun?
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:49 PM
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Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive?  
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Mass hysteria on the part of gun owners resulted in a run on ammo and the market reacted. Prices always stay higher after such an event. Pretty much the only way that prices will go back to the previous level is if people stop wanting ammo and retailers are forced to drop their prices to move inventory. And then there's always inflation.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:53 PM
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Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive?  
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Academy Sports 100 round count Winchester for $20. Not too bad.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:52 AM
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Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive? Why is ammo still so much more expensive?  
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For you fans of: S&B 9mm. 124gr. Brownells has them for $.175 a rd.
400 rds. min. and free shipping. to day only!
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:29 PM
Practical Practical is offline
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Why is ammo still so much more expensive?  
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Inflation and commodities pricing.

Why is gasoline more expensive?

The economy is doing good.

Copper, lead and brass are all commodities needed for making things. Things cost money.

The US government in the great recession printed TRILLIONS of dollars. SO basically everything costs more.

Ammo adjusted for inflation is probably cheap now.

I know it is available and I think it is cheaper than it will be in 5 years.

Once states like California and NY introduce more background checks on ammo purchases, you will see prices go up to cover the cost of a store person executing the check.

I think today's ammo is likely the cheapest we will see it for the next 30 years adjusted for inflation.
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