38 special what is this

[hardknocks]

Hello all
What do I have here, came with a gun I picked up.
Thanks

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by hardknocks

Hello all
What do I have here, came with a gun I picked up.
Thanks

That's a NyClad bullet (nylon coated). Popular back in the 70's and 80's. I don't have any more details, but I'm sure others more knowledgeable will chime in soon . . .

[kaaskop49]

IIRC, Federal picked up this bullet and loading after it's intro by S&W.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

[gwpercle]

The S&W head stamp indicates this was from the days S&W produced loaded ammo. I believe it came in a white and blue box and most revolver rounds were nickel plated...they were probably trying to market them to police...(+P , nyclad , hollow point) a lot of LEO's still issued and carried the 38 special revolver ....in 38 Special this was cutting edge ammo back then .
Gary

[thadheth]

Here's one of the boxes.

[RGVshooter]

Originally Posted by thadheth

Here's one of the boxes.

$11.25 huh? Heck I'll take one... One pallet that is.

[hardknocks]

I only have 5 or 6 rounds.
A few norma rounds and super vels came in a old green box of remington nickle case LRN.
Thanks alot
Mike

[D Brown]

A little more modern version of the NYCLAD TM.

[Skeet 028]

I liked he Nyclad ammo. It was pretty clean shooting. After S&W quit loading ammo. Federal took over the Nyclad line and after a couple years just discontinued the Nyclads dar it. For a while you could also get the bullets to reload too. Happen to have a fair amount of S&W ammo. Even some S&W-F from when S&W and Fiocchi took over the Alcan brand. They(S&W) were the first Ammo company to mass market the Sabot slugs too buying the rights from BRI. Made shotguns into longer range deer killers

[WR Moore]

S&W developed/acquired (I think someone else developed the concept, S&W saw the potential and jumped on it.) the Nyclad in response to a problem NYPD had with air quality in their indoor ranges. (EPA or the NY equivalent was gonna shut down all their indoor ranges.) The nylon coating virtually eliminated the cloud of lead particulates coming out of the muzzle and sharply limited the dust created when the bullets hit the backstops.

Somewhere along the line it dawned on someone that the lead core could be made softer, enhancing expansion, and the nylon jacket wasn't as resistant as copper. The designs changed slightly and Nyclads were also sold as duty ammo. In some corporate consolidation move, the ammo division was sold to Federal.

Advances in bullet technology sorta made the Nyclad obsolete. Besides, the profit margins on the other stuff was greater.

[BC38]

Just curious, but does anyone know how similar this nyclad coating is to the recent powder coating? Was it applied as a dip, or a spray-on, or powder melted on (like powdercoat)? I haven't had much luck finding info on the nyclad coating.

[LoboGunLeather]

The Nyclad line of ammo was originally marketed for law enforcement use, purportedly to reduce airborne lead residue for indoor range use. Within a couple of years it became notorious (in the anti-gun media) as "cop killer" bullets because the nylon coating was believed to be capable of penetrating commonly used Kevlar body armor.

Another example of a legitimate attempt to deal with one aspect of a problem, then being accused of creating a new problem.

As I recall, most reports of the Nyclad ammo were positive as to overall terminal ballistics.

[hardknocks]

Hi all
Living and learning
Thanks

[jupiter1]

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

Within a couple of years it became notorious (in the anti-gun media) as "cop killer" bullets because the nylon coating was believed to be capable of penetrating commonly used Kevlar body armor.

I never heard of that in regard to Nyclad ammunition.

I believe you may be thinking of the Teflon coated KTW armor piercing round that came out around 1970.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by jupiter1

I never heard of that in regard to Nyclad ammunition.

I believe you may be thinking of the Teflon coated KTW armor piercing round that came out around 1970.

What he said ^ ^ ^

[kscharlie]

About 5 or 6 years ago, Federal made a special run to produce a batch of 125 gr. Nyclad ammo in .38 Spl. Thinking it might make a decent SD round in my 642 snub, I ordered 5 boxes of it (20 rounds/box). I still have two unopened boxes, and it will probably remain that way. I have shot several armadillos with this ammo out of my 642, and it does a pretty good job of DRT. I don't know what barrel length Federal used to obtain their ballistics, but the box states a muzzle velocity of 830 fps. It shoots very nicely from my snub.

[DWalt]

"Within a couple of years it (NyClad) became notorious (in the anti-gun media) as "cop killer" bullets because the nylon coating was believed to be capable of penetrating commonly used Kevlar body armor."

Originally Posted by jupiter1

I never heard of that in regard to Nyclad ammunition.

I believe you may be thinking of the Teflon coated KTW armor piercing round that came out around 1970.

I believe the same. The (initially) green Teflon-coated Kennertium core bullet KTW metal piercing ammunition (the Teflon actually did nothing to enhance penetration, it was just there for visual identification) was always labeled as "Cop Killer" by the news media. Despite the fact that no cops were ever known to have been shot with it, let alone killed. And it was sold only to LE agencies for LE use. Later the bullet was made of uncoated solid brass. As it turned out, most LE agencies came to believe that metal-piercing ammunition wasn't really needed nor desirable (due to overpenetration), and KTW as a company died from lack of sales (probably assisted by its unfair "Cop Killer Bullet" reputation). I did some tests of KTW bullets and ammunition (the early design) on various types of steel plates back at that time. It was indeed very effective in performing as advertised. I even loaded some of the bullets in .35 Remington to fire in a rifle (all I had were .357 bullets). Now that combination was Really effective, I remember it punched straight through a 3/4" mild steel plate.

[wamalo]

I really liked the stuff.

To the best of my knowledge, it was the only commercially manufactured ammunition that was developed using a 2" barrel length; the 830 fps. is out of a 2" barrel.

[handejector]

Originally Posted by jupiter1

I never heard of that in regard to Nyclad ammunition.

I believe you may be thinking of the Teflon coated KTW armor piercing round that came out around 1970.

jupiter,
You are correct about the KTW ammo being the first bullet labeled as a "cop killer".
However, the Nyclad got 'drug along' with the bad publicity. I was in the gun business in the 70s and 80s and was around a lot of LEOs. I remember many uninformed cops being angry at S&W, and later Federal, for selling 'cheaper' cop killers.

[sigp220.45]

I remember an episode of COPS where an officer recovered a revolver from a couch, dumped six .38 Nyclads into his palm, then dramatically showed them to the camera and said: Cop killer bullets. Will go right through our vests.

[BC38]

Originally Posted by sigp220.45

I remember an episode of COPS where an officer recovered a revolver from a couch, dumped six .38 Nyclads into his palm, then dramatically showed them to the camera and said: Cop killer bullets. Will go right through our vests.

In reality we all already know that not all LEOs are experts on firearms - and in fact some of them aren't even "gun guys".

That kind of stuff makes for good TV though!

[jupiter1]

Originally Posted by handejector

I was in the gun business in the 70s and 80s and was around a lot of LEOs. I remember many uninformed cops being angry at S&W, and later Federal, for selling 'cheaper' cop killers.

I heard a few pearls of wisdom on my job too. One Sergeant told me that the difference between the .38 and the .357 Mag was that the .38 was loaded with black powder. Some cops preferred the 200 grain .38 Special because the powder charge was 200 grains as opposed to the 158 grain powder charge of the standard round. The 'armor piercing' Nyclad rounds remained a secret to me; learn something new every day.

[rwsmith]

I thought that Nyclads were ahead of their time. Problem back then was, they were expensive so they were a novelty to me. Now we have polymer coatings, but they are only nominally more expensive than plain lead bullets. Back then it was cheap enough to buy jacketed bullets. (Oh for those days)

I have a few left. I've seen ads for people wanting them.

[jframejoey]

S&W stuff was supposedly spicier back in the day. They made 125 and 158 back then in +p. The 125 had sharper shoulders and a larger hollow point. The more recent Chief's Special NON+p orientated stuff has a more RNL bullet profile with a very large hollow point. I bought recent bronze colored box 158 +p stuff and it doesnt seem as spicy as the old blue box stuff. They also made it in .357, 9mm, and .45ACP....would love to get ahold of some of that stuff.

[Buford57]

Originally Posted by jupiter1

I never heard of that in regard to Nyclad ammunition.

I believe you may be thinking of the Teflon coated KTW armor piercing round that came out around 1970.

Yes and yes. Nyclad ammo came at various times in blue as shown and black. The black was confused with the KTW based on appearance and the canard was repeated by people who should have known better. My department's property officer warned my partner when issuing him six (!) rounds of 158 gr. +P black Nyclads to be careful not to lose control of his weapon because "those things will go right through your vest". That was early 1985.