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Old 06-13-2018, 04:37 AM
agent00 agent00 is offline
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Default 357 sig or 10mm auto

Hello there. I am interested in getting some opinions here. I want to get started Shooting some bigger bore handguns. So far I have only used 9mm handguns.

I want to get either a glock 20 in 10mm Auto or a glock 32 in 357 sig.

I will use it for target/fun Shooting and also as a short range self defense gun.

I am no reloader yet so I have to stick the factory ammo. Here in Austria the supply of ammo fort both caliber is quite difficult, but I am willing to deal with it.

I know that the smaller companies offer nice 10mm Auto rounds, but how about the 10mm offerings of the big ammo companies, like Federal, Winchester and Hornady? Are they close to the orginal ballistics of the 10mm Auto or are they watered down?

If I get a 10mm Auto I want to use the full pontential of the round and not the watered down Version. in that case I could get the 40 s&w and not the 10mm Auto.

In 357 sig the Situation seems to be a bit better. The Standard offerings in that caliber look promising judging the ballistic data.

What do you guys think about the 10mm offerings from the Main ammo companies? Are they any good ?

thanks for your help in advance

greetings from Austria
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:25 AM
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Default 357 sig or 10 mm

I would suggest that if you can get an extra barrel, buy a G-20 and a 357 sig barrel. That way you could have both
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:50 AM
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Both are great pistols. For right now, if you're not reloading and you're wanting maximum cartridge performance with typically available, out-of-the box, factory ammo, that'd be .357 Sig.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:07 AM
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Default 357 sig or 10mm auto

I would take a 10mm all day long.

Last edited by moralem; 06-13-2018 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:10 AM
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I'd choose 10 mm myself as it's a definite step up from 9 mm or 40 S&W.
Checking commercial ammo, Hornady's 180 gr XTP 10 mm has an advertised MV of 1275. So there's at least one full power load by SAAMI specs.
Note: I'm a G29 owner and I usually load 180 gr to around 1100 fps. I'd say a G20 with the above load will get your attention and the attention of the shooters next to you.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:23 AM
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Noting your comment about neither round being readily available .......

First; not a big fan of either caliber as I was deeply invested in 9mm,.45 and .357magnums before either was introduced..... just saw no need for another caliber to stock.
But felt the need to cover some bases after experience ammo shortages in 2008,

Something to think about.... and what I did......

I got (found a used gun at a LGS) a Sig 229 that came with two barrels.....357 Sig and .40 S&W. Magazines work with both rounds.... simple barrel switch.

In 2013 we again experience ammo shortages here in the US.....9mm and .45 disappeared from the shelves...... but .40 and .357Sig remained available in at least limited quantities.

So if you go with a .357sig you can add a .40S&W barrel down the road if needed.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:53 AM
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10mm, especially a GLOCK 20
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:07 AM
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The last 4-5 years have seen more than a dozen ammunition choices added to the retail market for the 10MM Auto cartridge from major manufactures.

Most of these offerings have returned us to full power 10 MM Auto specifications.

Myself, I would probably go for the 10MM Auto. I happen to be a big fan of both cartridges.

But then I live in America and have good access to sources of ammunition

In your case, I think that you should find the ammunition source first and make your caliber choice based on what is available in your country.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:12 AM
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My choice would be the Glock 20. Yes, most 10mm factory ammo is still pretty watered down. But there are a couple of big name brands that are close to full power. That would be Sig Sauer and Hornady. Both rated at 1250 fps for the 180 gr. rounds, IIRC..

Last edited by Bozz10mm; 06-13-2018 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:53 AM
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If you are not worried about concealed carry and want to get the most out of the 10mm...look at a Glock 40. I had a 20, 29 and 40 and sold the shorter two...the 40 is MUCH more pleasant to shoot.

And if you want the most out of a .357 SIG...just add a barrel to the G40... Bought a now discontinued Wolf barrel and it is even more accurate than the 10mm...

If you decide against a large frame Glock and want to go .357 SIG, would suggest you get a .40 S&W G35 and add a .357 barrel to it. They are really nice shooting guns...

Bob
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:04 AM
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Here is my suggestion - you might not want to hear it but here goes......

I'd not buy either! Not because they are not good defensive calibers, but because they are sort of obscure calibers. IMO the 10mm Auto and .357 Sig are not, never have been and never will be as popular, readily available or inexpensive as calibers like .45 acp or 9mm which also make fine SD/HD hand guns. Just my opinion and YMMV of course.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:16 AM
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I'd guess 10mm will be cheaper and easier to find over there, but I could be wrong. Many new guns have come out in 10mm over the last couple of years and it has become moderately popular. .357 Sig is still very uncommon.

All of the .357 Sig ammo from Federal, Winchester and Hornady is watered down when compared to Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, and Underwood.

FWIW the .357 Sig has the same bore diameter as 9mm.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:18 AM
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Default 357 sig or 10mm auto

But the OP’s point is not to have a widely available caliber, but to shoot .357 Magnum like in a semi-auto pistol I think.

I have three 10 mm that I like a lot, found reasonably priced ammo in bulk from a guy that gave up his gun, and I reload too.



I also have a two tone SIG Sauer P229 in .357 SIG, great gun, 12 rounds in the mag with a lot of punch. For me here in Switzerland I find the 10 mm ammo is easier to find. But then I also reload the .357 SIG, and bullets are cheaper.

Whichever way you go you can’t go wrong IMO.

For self defense I think both are very powerful rounds, especially with full power. The flash and noise would be a handicap should you shoot in enclosed spaces without ear protection.

Does Austria have laws that facilitate the use of guns for self defense ?

Last edited by CLASSIC12; 06-13-2018 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
I want to get started Shooting some bigger bore handguns.
357 Sig is similar to 9mm. If you want to shoot big bore auto, go for the 10mm. I carry G29 10mm UW 775 ft-lbs m.e.

Quote:
and also as a short range self defense gun.
If all of my shots were guaranteed to hit CNS, I would carry a 22. But, it is mostly the other way around. I have no guarantee of hitting CNS. I want adequate power to deliver a convincing psychological stop if my shots hit periphery of the threat.

I also carry upper end UW 40S&W. But, when I want to be above the 9, 357 Sig, 40 and 45 acp plane, I reach up to full house 10mm.

The 10mm cartridge is the largest cartridge, that when loaded to 40,000 units of pressure, is not too much for the standard pistol or shooter.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:57 AM
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Thanks a lot for the further replies.

I am aware that neither the 10mm Auto nor the 357 sig are the most commmon catridges but that thats the Point somehow. To have ´ballistics similar to the Magnum catridges out of a Revolver like Classic already said. The 357 sig would be a good choice for these Needs because it offers similar Performance to the 357 Magnum out of a Revolver. And the 10mm is similar to the weaker loads of the obscure 41 Magnum.

I would not mind using the 357 mag out of a pistol, but the Desert Eagle is a bit too much gun for target /fun Shooting and also quite expensive. Same goes for the 357 mag Coonan pistol. I am not even sure if they found their way to Europe. If they did they should cost a fortune.

@Classic For handguns, and semi Auto rifles you Need a Special permission called Waffenbesitzkarte (WBK). Bolt Action rifles, single or double Action Shotguns and Lever Action games are free from the age of 18 years onwards if you have no criminal record.

Last edited by agent00; 06-13-2018 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agent00 View Post

greetings from Austria
And a Hound Dawg Howdy to you from South Carolina!

I'm not into either cartridge, but from what I see here the interchangable barrels sound like a real winner. Two guns in one.

Do they take different magazines???
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:20 PM
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I like JimInTheBurg's idea. Get the Glock and then a .357 barrel for it. I have a Glock 20 and like it very much. Just for the heck of it one day I ran a full box of .40 cal thru it (with the 10mm barrel) and it fed just fine from the 10mm magazines so I expect the same results for you with the .357 cartridge.

I would go with the 10mm first if that is the only choice, but I honestly think the Jim has it right.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:47 PM
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Take a look at the Smith 1006. Many out there at reasonable price. Most people don't care for the recoil and shoot them very little. Built like a tank (not black plastic) and extremely accurate.
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Old 06-14-2018, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkabug View Post
Take a look at the Smith 1006. Many out there at reasonable price. Most people don't care for the recoil and shoot them very little. Built like a tank (not black plastic) and extremely accurate.
Thanks for the advice. I will do that. It is not that I am not interested in other 10mm handguns. I just mentioned the glock because it is the easiest gun to find.

But trying to get a s&w 1006 would be also a good idea. Another potential interesting 10mm Auto pistol would the colt Delta.

Already found a 1006 at a similar Price to the glocks. Not in my hometown do, but would be possible to visit the town where the gun is based.
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:38 AM
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If you are not set on a Glock, take a look at the 1911. Colt unfortunately is the only one without a fully supported chamber type barrel.

I have 1911s in 10mm from Kimber (Stainless Target II), PARA (Elite LS Hunter 6" that is now the Remington Hunter) and a RIA Combat Commander size. The RIA was half the price of the others, 100% reliable and just as accurate. They come with 4.25", 5" and 6" barrels with 8 and 16 round magazine size frames.

The Kimber is set up to run:
10mm
.40 S&W
.38 Super
9x19
9x23 Winchester
9mm Largo
Switch slides and can run:
.45 ACP
.45 Super
...and a .22 Conversion Unit.
One day I'll be adding .357 SIG and 7.62x25

Bob
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:43 AM
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Default Best of both

Quote:
Originally Posted by agent00 View Post
Hello there. I am interested in getting some opinions here. I want to get started Shooting some bigger bore handguns. So far I have only used 9mm handguns.

I want to get either a glock 20 in 10mm Auto or a glock 32 in 357 sig.

I will use it for target/fun Shooting and also as a short range self defense gun.

I am no reloader yet so I have to stick the factory ammo. Here in Austria the supply of ammo fort both caliber is quite difficult, but I am willing to deal with it.

I know that the smaller companies offer nice 10mm Auto rounds, but how about the 10mm offerings of the big ammo companies, like Federal, Winchester and Hornady? Are they close to the orginal ballistics of the 10mm Auto or are they watered down?

If I get a 10mm Auto I want to use the full pontential of the round and not the watered down Version. in that case I could get the 40 s&w and not the 10mm Auto.

In 357 sig the Situation seems to be a bit better. The Standard offerings in that caliber look promising judging the ballistic data.

What do you guys think about the 10mm offerings from the Main ammo companies? Are they any good ?

thanks for your help in advance

greetings from Austria
I Have a S&W MP 40 and have a KLM barrel in .357 Sig ,uses same Mag give the performance of two high power calibers in one gun
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:05 AM
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I have had a 1006 for 20 years and recently bought a Ruger SR 1911 in 10mm. I have been pleasantly surprised. The Ruger has run everything that I have bought or handloaded for it. It has very manageable recoil and is as accurate at 25 yards as any of my 1911 .45's. I am shooting 2" groups at 25 yards with a 180 grain Gold Dot loaded to a full house load.
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:17 PM
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Magazines for the 1006 might be VERY DIFFICULT for you to get. Glock magazines are easy. Something to think about.
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:33 PM
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I would go for the 357 Sig because with a barrel change you can switch to 40s&w and still use the same magazines/slide/extractor.

And you can still go back down to 9mm by swapping out the barrel and magazine. The pistol will safely function with the stock slide however you may or may not get 100% reliable extraction. But it will work.

Can't do that with the 10mm.

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Old 06-14-2018, 05:40 PM
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Default 10mm nut's view

I can probably say with a fair degree of certainty that I'm one of the nuttiest, if not the nuttiest, 10mm nut on the list. So take what I say with that 10mm grain of salt.

I was one of those "40 Short and Weak" guys who poo pooed the new caliber as very much less than 10mm. I now have 3 or 4 40 S&W in the accumulation as age softened me and had me relenting.

10mm is a great round for a reloader as you can roll yer own high-powered loads to suit your launcher's idiosyncrasies. S&W 10mm launchers are wonderful in both semi-auto and revolver. Factory ammo is mild but there are some decent offerings out there.

I'd rather carry/use/abuse a G20 or G29 as replacement is just a purchase away. Doesn't mean I don't need my 1006/1066/1076/1026/1086 collection members - it means that pragmatism dictates using items that are easily replaceable should the need arise.

But if it came down to choosing between the two, I like the strategy recommended in other replies of a G20 with an extra .357 Sig barrel.

I have seen some excellent pricing on G32 and if someone offered me one for a song and dance, I'd prolly end up in the .357 Sig camp too. But I'd steer clear of reloading due to necked case being a pain in the rear.

Clear as mud?
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:11 AM
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Thanks a lot for the further replies. You guys have convinced me. I will get either a glock or another gun in 10mm with an extra Barrel for the 357 sig. So I can use both caliber in one pistol which is awesome.

Did a bit Research about the ammo Situation too and it is interresting. All in all the ammo supply in 10mm Auto is better. you can get either FMJ or TFMJ for target/fun Shooting and for self defense I could get the 180 grain hornady xtp? What do you guys think about that load?

On the other Hand for the 357 sig I could just find lots of FMJ ammo which is great for use at the range but not so good for home defense situations.

So it seems according to the ammo supply the 10mm is more versatile.
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:48 AM
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I like the 155-165s for personal defense, target work and small to medium game hunting. Then skip up to the 200 hardcast for medium to large game and woods defense...

..but anything works...Bob
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:04 PM
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A note on the 10mm 180 gr load.

I watched a Gel test with the hotter Underwood 180 JHP Gold Dot
shot out of the Glock 20 with a 4.6" barrel.
The box had 1300fps as a fps and the G20 produced 1328fps.

The bullet penetrated almost 18" and was just plain UGLY.
It looked like a train wreck and even had some Separation !!

The tester did a second test with just water jugs, so to test just the fps.
This test showed maximum jacket fold back and also bullet separation starting.
30% of the bullet was lost, due to fragmentation, going through three jugs!!

It will do the job but the tester has NEVER seen the Gold Dot ever separate in any of his other bullet test.
A first.
Maybe 1300fps is just a little to HOT for the Gold Dot design at this short distance.
The good news is that this load comes at 1250fps or slower by many companies.

Just a heads up.
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:04 PM
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Get both guns. Problem solved.
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Old 07-18-2018, 04:13 AM
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Thanks for the warning Neveda Ed but a far as I know the underwood rounds are very hot rounds. Hotter than the 180 grains rounds from other companies. So the risk that the Standard rounds will fail is not that high.

here in Europe we can just get the rounds from the bigger Ammo companies. The smaller ammo makes with their hot rounds, like Corbon, underwood, doubletap and many more do not sell their stuff in Europe unfortunately.

I would be interested in their stuff if I could get it.
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:03 AM
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Default ROCK OUT WITH YOUR GLOCK OUT?

IF you really want BIG BORE, America's tried & true sweat heart the 45acp would be my pick. In a semi auto it is pleasant to shoot, more so than a 40 cal IMO, can deliver a fast follow up shot, comes in heavy weight bullets. I've never fired a 357 SIG, but the "idea" of a bottle necked case feeding better in a semi has it's appeal. The only 10mm I've fired was in a full sized stainless S&W revolver so IDK how the recoil might be in a semi auto, or if mag capacity is an issue for you.

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Old 07-26-2018, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachogrande View Post
IF you really want BIG BORE, America's tried & true sweat heart the 45acp would be my pick. In a semi auto it is pleasant to shoot, more so than a 40 cal IMO, can deliver a fast follow up shot, comes in heavy weight bullets. I've never fired a 357 SIG, but the "idea" of a bottle necked case feeding better in a semi has it's appeal. The only 10mm I've fired was in a full sized stainless S&W revolver so IDK how the recoil might be in a semi auto, or if mag capacity is an issue for you.
Thanks for the advice. Well the good old 45 apc was not on my list in the first place but after checking the ammo availability of the 357 sig and the 10mm Auto again and again, getting a .45 would be very tempting. With the Standard .45 I cannot get in Magnum territory in the semi Auto pistol realm, which was the reason why I got intersted in the 357 sig or the 10mm Auto in the first place. But the 45 apc would have many benefits. for sure. Ammo is quite cheap and easily available.

I can get man FMJ rounds for target Shooting and even some decent self defense rounds like the Gold dot, and also some classic jhp rounds from Remington at a good Price.

If i get a .45 pistol that can be adjusted to use 45 super rounds I can still get in the Magnum realm in the future if i start learning reloading.
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  #33  
Old 07-26-2018, 04:23 AM
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Nothing wrong with that thinking... .45 Super will run 230s at 1100 fps and 255s at 1050...what more does one need...

The above listed Kimber 1911 is easy to shoot with .45 Super rounds. A lot of Glock 21 shooters add some heavier springs and usually a better aftermarket barrel...

The All-New Big .45 SUPER Thread! | The Leading Glock Forum and Community - GlockTalk.com

Bob
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:23 AM
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colt_saa colt_saa is offline
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Originally Posted by agent00 View Post
If i get a .45 pistol that can be adjusted to use 45 super rounds I can still get in the Magnum realm in the future if i start learning reloading.
The HK line of full size USP pistols do not need any adjustments to safely operate with 45 Super ammunition.





It does not matter if you choose one of the duty guns or prefer the target guns like the USP Expert and USP Elite. They will even work fine in the suppressor ready USP Tactical

Just load the magazine and you are good to go

The USP Elite is nice for the 45 SUPER since with the Elite's 6.02" barrel you get a little extra velocity and energy


I know it kind of looks like a giant Walther PP, but it shoots great
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Old 07-28-2018, 02:59 AM
Scott in NCal Scott in NCal is offline
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I have a glock 35. It is a 40 cal and glock calls it a competition model or some such thing, longer slide, better trigger , adjustable sites. I have 357 sig and 9 X 19 barrels for it. I only change the barrel, not the extractor , the springs or even the magazines. I haven't shot the 357 Sig much but it functioned fine. Same with the thousands of rounds of 9mm, that is with the 40 cal mags. With the Sig barrel it is my favorite woods - great plains carry pistol.
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Old 07-28-2018, 05:49 AM
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I like both calibers in question but I belive the 10mm is a superior round. It seems that the .357 Sig was designed for one main purpose - to duplicate the popular and effective 125 grain@1400+fps .357 Magnum load in 9mm sized autos. The .357 Sig achieves this goal quite well. Of course, light loads of 9mm +P+ and .40 S&W can come close to that velocity as well.

However, the 10mm is a different animal. When fully loaded, the 10mm can put a heavy bullet down range with a very high velocity, even out performing the .357 Magnum. But whereas the .357 Sig does one job well, the 10mm can do several jobs. If one needs a good hunting or outdoors gun, a 10mm loaded with full power 180 or 200 grain bullets can do the job. On the other end of the spectrum, full power light bullets can be had with very high velocity too. Also, lighter 10mm loads can be had, much like shooting .38 or .44 Special out of a Magnum. I find the 10mm Hydra-Shok to be an excellant defensive load for my Glock 20.

Last edited by CCantu357; 07-29-2018 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 07-28-2018, 04:07 PM
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Thanks for the advice. Well the good old 45 apc was not on my list in the first place but after checking the ammo availability of the 357 sig and the 10mm Auto again and again, getting a .45 would be very tempting. With the Standard .45 I cannot get in Magnum territory in the semi Auto pistol realm, which was the reason why I got intersted in the 357 sig or the 10mm Auto in the first place. But the 45 apc would have many benefits. for sure. Ammo is quite cheap and easily available.

I can get man FMJ rounds for target Shooting and even some decent self defense rounds like the Gold dot, and also some classic jhp rounds from Remington at a good Price.

If i get a .45 pistol that can be adjusted to use 45 super rounds I can still get in the Magnum realm in the future if i start learning reloading.
The 45 Super case is beefed up, so don't use standard 45s or even 45+p.

I love my 10mms and 357 sig. Having wrote that, I took my full size HK USP 45 and installed an 18# recoil spring, +5% magazine spring and shoot 450 smc. It's the same as a 45 Super but with a small magnum rifle primer. Edit:I also installed a 6" barrel in it. It's not the Elite barrel. The o-ring grove is cut for the full size usp. It's an HK factory barrel and is almost half the cost of the Elite spare barrel.
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Old 07-29-2018, 04:58 PM
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Thanks a lot for the advice concering he HK USP Line. I will take a look at them and chose a good model.

@CCantu357 I agree. With the right loads the 357 sig and especially the 10mm is a very interesting and versatile round. Unfortunately the best loads are not available here in Austria. As long as I am not a reloader It is not practicable to get these rounds.

45 apc rounds are easier to get. Decent fmj rounds for plinking and some 230 grain hydra shok rounds are cheap and easy to get.

I assume the hydra shok rounds are very sound bullet design for sd. maybe a bit old fashioned but still very effectiv. Or what you guys think about the hydra shok?

Thats why i go with the .45.apc to start my big bore handgun joruney and when I am able to reload I get the magnum root with the 45 super.
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