Hi:

Those who carry a short barrel 357 Magnum:

What load do you used ?

Remington 125 grain sjhp.357 usually

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No gold. Only lead. Bobby

Speer Gold Dot 125 .38 +P
Speer Gold Dot 135 .357 Mag short barrel
Remington Golden Saber .38 +P
Hornady Critical Defense FTX 125 .357 Mag

Would love some 145 gr Silver Tips if could find some.

Big beautiful 145 grain Silvertips in a shiny Model 19.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

I carry for the first five loads the Buffalo Bore 150 grain hardcast full wadcutter that give between 8 and 9 hundred fps in a short barrel. For my reloads, I carry either the .38 Special +P 135 grain bullet loaded for short barrels and/or the same loading in .357 mag, both made by Speer with the Gold Dot bullets. The Speer bullets are easier to quickly reload without fumbling compared to the full wads. But I am very fond of those BB full wads at the higher velocity as compared to target loadings with a 148 grain bullet. I have full confidence in them for personal protection with a .38/357 caliber. I carry a steel framed model 640-1 with a 2 1/8" barrel that will shoot all these cartridges. I have been reloading revolvers at speed since the late 60's and am very comfortable doing so, but in a hurry, I like the longer Gold Dots for my quick reloads. This is what I am comfortable with and confident with.

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So long ... Ken

Buffalo Bore 125 grain to get the velocity back up to snuff.

145gr Winchester Silvertip ammo. It's very Accurate in my S&W M640.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Isn't the 125 grain bullets "Supposed" to cause split forcing cones ??

Another Silvertip user here. Along with Federal American Eagle 158 gr. JSPs, they are the only .357 factory loads I try to keep on hand.

Speer Gold Dot 135 .357 Mag short barrel. Product code 23917.

Short answer, no, there is more to that than just the bullet weight.

I carry Golden Saber 357 125 gr. Light to medium magnum load, obviously stronger than 38+P, but very manageable in my 649.

I will run these in my 66-8 for now, but I am in process of making my own short bbl 357 load with either 140 or 158 XTP.

Looking for over 1100 for the 158gr.

jimmyj, this is one of those commonly-held beliefs that is based on a grain of truth but has been blown out of all proportion over the decades -- like a lot of the things "everyone knows" about guns and ammo.

There was a problem many years ago -- never common or widespread -- with a few S&W K-frame revolvers that were FED A HEAVY DIET OF 125 GR. JHP AMMO. The design of the revolver was eventually changed to address the issue.

Does this mean that your revolver will never suffer a forcing cone split? No, it can happen, and with just about any revolver. If you're planning on firing thousands and thousands of rounds on the range, I would choose a less-intense load. But if you're wanting what is maybe the best defensive round out there -- and this another generalized supposition based on a comparatively few samples -- then the 125 is the way to go, and the risk of hurting your gun is very small.

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Pisgah

I just test fired some Remington Golden Saber 125 grain JHP yesterday and think I may go to it. It's not a full tilt load. In my 3" 60-15 I still had good shot to shot recovery but was obviously well above .38 special performance. Looking at the results in lucky gunners ballistics test I should get just above 1100 FPS. they showed expansion in both 2" & 4" guns at .62 with penetration running +/- 17".

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...s-test/#357mag

While living in Tennessee I purchased a S&W Model 19 2.5". The cylinder was difficult yo open and close. I finally discovered the forcing cone was split. Lucky I was able to purchase a 2.5" Model 66 barrel from a Forum Member and had a gunsmith install it and then I had a "Pinto" Model 19.
Therefore I am somewhat concern on split forcing cones.

38 Special +P in the J frames due to recoil concerns.

In my Ruger SP101 and my 3" M65 any good 357 ammo works fine.

For a carry load I like Winchester white box 110 grain JHP bc it expands but shouldn't overpenetrate. When I was practicing a lot w the M65 I could put 3 doubletaps on a siloeuette target as fast as I could run it. 1st pair would be bottom of sternum, 2nd pair would be top of sternum and last pair would be about where the bridge of the nose would be.

This drill was walk toward the target and when shooting buddy would yell "gun" draw while moving and keep shooting while moving. Before anyone wants to call BS keep in mind my shooting buddy who is also a serious gun guy and me were shooting at least 500 rounds each of 357 every weekend. We would literally be at the range before daylight, we brought a cooler full of sandwiches and water and would shoot until dark. For me it was fun. For my buddy it may have saved his life.

He was in cop school at the time. His 1st week on the street while he was still riding w his Field Training Officer he was in a gunfight. Despite taking 2 rounds in the trauma plate of his vest and a round through the side of his neck he put 7 180 grain 40s through the guy who shot him all of which were either in the gut above the belt buckle or in the chest, all centerline of the body. This was a running gunfight in a tall brushy field after the shooter bailed out of the stolen car he wrecked during the chase.

The original 180 grain 40 load picked by the Bexar County Sheriff's Office didn't expand at at so it didn't stop the shooter. Shooter was a carjacker who was on drugs per autopsy blood work. The good news is that the shooter started missing when my buddy started shooting. Buddy walked up on the carjacker in the brush and got hit and went down. Guy took off and my buddy got up and went after him through the brush. It was at night. No lighting in area. Moonlight and muzzle flashes only. From recovered shell casings my buddy shot from 4 different places before the carjacker went down for good. Last shot was through the chest and penetrated through and took out the guy's spine. My buddy was shooting at muzzle flashes and the darker outline of the carjacker. They moved about 75 yards from where buddy initially hit until where it ended.

The best news is that I picked my buddy up at the hospital later that night and bought him breakfast on the way home.

Buddy begged the SO to let him carry his 686 after that. They said NO but did change issued ammo after a review. Full recovery. No PTSD issues later. My buddy said all he ever felt was angry bc the guy shot him. He wasn't happy about having to kill the guy but he didn't have a choice. Even after hitting the guy multiple times the carjacker was still up and moving and shooting at my buddy.

I saw all the paperwork on this bc I worked w my buddy's police union lawyer as co-counsel on the shooting review. At that time in Bexar County every shooting went to a review even when no question if a good shooting.

The end of the story is after my buddy got a commendation the SO issued him another vest that was ****** and out of date. About that time someone ran into buddy's car. Ins co didn't want to pay to fix his almost new car right. He hired me. Insisted on paying me so my fee was the cost of a properly fitting brand new 2nd Chance vest, a plate of tacos and the first cold beer w those tacos. My buddy retired last year. Fortunately while he did have to draw his service pistol a few times that was his only gunfight. I'm about to move back to San Antonio and after I get settled in he and I are heading to the coast fishing.

Jimmy,
I'm in pretty much agreement with most of what's been said here about the high pressure loadings, especially in the older K Frames and the .38 Special only J Frames. Split barrels can and have happened, as you very well know! Some of those were likely the result of the barrel having been overtightened a bit during inital installation and may? have split with any round fired at some point in time. Documented instances involved both low numbers fired as well as many numbers fired through the guns.

The early 125 grains in the magnum loads were certainly higher pressure rounds and the flame cutting was worse with them than compared to regular magnum rounds with heavier grain bullets. Lots of possibilities with no real specific correlation to anything much. But, when those hot 125 grain loads became available, a lot of folks fired quite a lot of them during the time the split barrel incidences became more frequent and more publicized. FWIW, I carried the same Model 19 4" for quite a few years. It had untold thousands of wadcutters and some thousands of .357 mag rounds through it during that time. I never had a problem and never personally saw a Model 19 experience a split frame or barrel. But that did happen. I watched my revolver closely for the problem. I have personally seen some of the alloy frames with split barrels and frames underneath the barrel, especially when higher pressure loadings than standard .38 Special were fired through them, plus know of some of those that were claimed to have only fired standard pressure loads. Who knows for sure? I have also fired a great many rounds through various steel J Frames and a few alloy frames, with no problems, starting about the time the first Super Vel loadings came on the market. Not a high percentage of those rounds were the higher pressure loadings, especially in the early airweight frames.

FWIW, the "cure" that we saw when the L frames were released was also applied to the J frames when they were introduced in the .357 mag chambering. The frame was strengthened and made stronger with the new size J frame. I've owned a Model 442 airweight since shortly after they were introduced. It's fired a good many +P .38 Specials as well as lots of standard pressure target loads. I bought my first good used Model 640-1 (Magnum J Frame) later and after the good Speer Gold Dots for short barrels were introduced. That revolver has had quite a few of the .38 +P rounds fired, as nearly as many of the .357 mag short barrel loadings have been fired. I generally carry and prefer the steel J frames about 90% of the time. And I normally carry the .38 +P loads because they fit any of my J Frames, I know how they shoot, where they hit, and I feel very comfortable that they are plenty good enough for what I want them do. Keeps things simple that way. The mag loads are indeed more powerful, but they are also noisier and a bit more of a chore to control. I feel that the .38 +P is sufficient!

I may have a cracked frame or barrel tomorrow, but I'm not worried about that at all. Based on my personal experience with rounds fired and having no incidence of problems with them in my revolvers, I will continue my practice. I haven't fired a 125 grain loading in any of my revolvers in a very long time. I like the heavier weight bullets and I tend to favor good penetration before great bullet expansion. Both of those things together is great, if you can get it, but expansion without adequate penetration is not acceptable to me. As I said earlier in this thread, my first five shots involve the full wadcutters loaded by Buffalo Bore, but I carry the Gold Dots because they are easier and more surely reloaded, especially under pressure, than the wadcutter shaped rounds. And it is my expectation and hope that after those first five (or less) are fired, a reload can be done without a great immediate necessity to reload and fire again to finish the job. Everything is a **** shoot and anything is possible, but I am comfortable with this level of personal protection and I am comfortable with these loadings being fired in my revolvers, both for adequate practice with them as well as performance in time of need. That's my opinion, FWIW.

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So long ... Ken

Great Story , BTY I Will Not be moving to San Antonio

In the old days, the HOT 125 gr Jacketed bullets did damage the K frame revolvers
if you shot a lot of that ammo, do to the revolvers design.

Todays Remington GS 125 gr loads are reduced and are safe in all 357 weapons
that are used today, no matter what make or model.

Yes, if you can get them the Winchester 145 ST is a great SD load.
No argument there.

+1 on the Silvertips. Great ammo.

I carry W-W white box .357 110gr JHPs in my M&P 340s. Lighter recoil and no crimp jump. I would love to wring out the R-P 125gr Golden Sabres if I could find any. These would be for the 340 AirLite PDs in which the 110s are taboo.

Anybody out there ever experience crimp jump with the 125gr GS or 145gr Silvertip magnum load in the snub lightweight magnums?

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

I’ve never known the Silvertips to jump their crimp in anything. They were the FBI issue .357 load for a long time, when 3” Model 13s were the standard gun and lots of personally owned 2 1/2” K-frames were around. If there was a problem it would have shown up.

The problem with Silvertips is finding them (and then paying for them).

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

158 gr. SWC. 15 grs. 2400. It will do over 1200 FPS in a 2 1/2 in. barrel. I've never checked it in a 3 1/2 or 4 in. barrel but it does over 1400 in a 6 in. Larry

I split a case of 125 GS magnums with a friend for our 13oz 360s and neither of us have experienced crimp jump.

I use the 125 grain .357 Golden Saber in my snubbie .357s. I find it accurate and have had no issues.

I have a Mod 19-3, 2.5 inch that I've about worn the blue off of.
I bet 90% of all the rounds I've shot through it were +P 38 spls.
Mostly 125 gr SJHP's and it's usually carried with those rounds for CC.

The 357 bounces to much for me in a short gun these days, I do run a bunch of magnums through my N frames though.

I have bought the 20 round boxes of Hornady Critical Defense ammo and it's accurate enough, only tried the 38 spl stuff so far.

I bet your a senior citizen like me. Remember when the old men used to stagger the rounds in a revolver?
Hollow point, wadcutter and a round nose. Or some sort of every other round set-up. I think the reason they did that was they didn't have 5 or 6 of the same ammo to fill a cylinder!


GF

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SWCA #2420

I carry the 125gr Golden Saber in my SP-101. It's always worked well for me in the over ten years I've been using it. I've also shot it out of my 340 M&P and found it to be very manageable.

I would consider the 145gr Silvertips, in particular for my 3" Model 65, but I haven't seen any around here in several years. The last box I did see had a price of $65 on it. I can buy a lot of Golden Saber for $65.

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Wheel guns are real guns.

Memories! I was hanging out with some retired tribal cops from a Montana rez and the subject of ammo came up. One year the tribe didn’t buy any duty ammo and the cops were told to just carry wadcutters (which they had plenty of) in their Model 15s. One shift kicked in and bought a partial box of hollowpoints (they were not well paid) which meant everyone got 2 rounds. Those old boys got to laughing about the various theories floated about where to put them in the cylinder - most guys opted to have them up first, while some just dropped them in and gave the cylinder a spin and flipped her shut, relying on providence. My pal, who was a Sheriff by the time he told this tale, said he loaded his two to come up last, noting that it took him 3 or 4 rounds sometimes to “get his aim”.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

357 Silvertips in my 640.

I reload so I can adjust the amount of powder. I have shot a lot of game with my 6" 586 . I like 125's and 110's. Out of my 3" model 13 I like 110's and 125's also. But; I load down for practice . I will say... 150-160 pound deer, one was shot with 125 grain ; and another with a 158 …...no difference. I like lighter faster. personal preference.

the 125 grain load of the 80's that were so effective could cause problems over time. K frames and even an L frames. the current factory ammo I have shot is not that "heavily' loaded.

I use a 125 grain cast 358093 backed by 13.5 grains of 2400. The velocity hovers right around 1100 fps out of a 2-5/8" barrel. I'm happy with that level of performance because I was just looking at Speer's website today and I noticed that their "short barrel" .357 loading pushes a 130 grain bullet at 990 fps from a 2" barrel.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

14.5 grains of 2400 with Elmer's bullet with a heavy crimp!

Speer 135 gr .357 short barrel Gold Dot.

Winchester 145 gr Silvertips for all of my .357 magnums.

Plenty of places with 145 gr Silvertips in stock,

.357 Mag ammo handgun Winchester 145 grains

Back in the 1970's and 1980's I carried a 2.5" Model 19 while working in plain clothes and off duty. Always carried Federal 158SWC-HP .38 Special +P ammo.

Made the mistake of trying .357 magnum ammo at the range. Lots of muzzle blast, lots of muzzle flash, lots of recoil, but not much performance on the targets.

YMMV