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Old 09-05-2018, 05:02 PM
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Does anybody know approximately when this .38 spl ammo was made ?

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Old 09-05-2018, 05:16 PM
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I donít know, but Iíd guess the mid- to late-sixties. More pics of sides, ends, and bottom of the boxes would probably help those more knowledgeable than I am.
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:25 PM
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There ought to be a lot number somewhere on the box. Given lot number, caliber and bullet type/weight Winchester should be able to nail it down to date and shift. Might take awhile though
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:03 PM
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I think Winchester was still using such boxes into the early '70s.
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:36 PM
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Probably 1970s. A lot number should be stamped on the inside of an end flap. It can be accurately dated knowing that lot number, which is actually production dating in code. I know the code.
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:39 PM
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Late 60's to early 70's, looks like the Lubaloy .38 Special (swaged lead bullet with copper plating), probably 158-grain round nose at about 750-800 FPS rating.
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:54 PM
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I have a coupla' boxes of that same ammo.
I thought they were older than that, glad the thread cleared up the age.

I bought the Winchester 158gr and some Remington wadcutters for $8 a box. He had a bunch, I shoulda' bought it all!

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Old 09-05-2018, 08:03 PM
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Full box in good condition - somewhat collectible. Partial box in rough condition - enjoy shooting it.
Jim
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Old 09-06-2018, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
Late 60's to early 70's, looks like the Lubaloy .38 Special (swaged lead bullet with copper plating), probably 158-grain round nose at about 750-800 FPS rating.
I don't think they are Lubaloy. The bullets appear to have jacketed noses with exposed lead bearing surfaces like the Remington 158 gr metal point rounds I bought in the 70's. This must be the Winchester version.

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Old 09-06-2018, 12:29 AM
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The box clearly shows the "WARNING Keep out of reach of children" stamping. This was implemented in 1962. So, your box is no older than 1962. It should be perfectly fine to shoot if it has been stored properly. Unless the box is full with the correct era ammunition and the box is in pristine condition it's no more valuable than a partial box of current production Winchester White Box 38 Spcl 130 Gr FMJ.


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Old 09-06-2018, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M29since14 View Post
I donít know, but Iíd guess the mid- to late-sixties. More pics of sides, ends, and bottom of the boxes would probably help those more knowledgeable than I am.


Youíre quite right, donít know why I didnít post more pics





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Old 09-06-2018, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
There ought to be a lot number somewhere on the box. Given lot number, caliber and bullet type/weight Winchester should be able to nail it down to date and shift. Might take awhile though


Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Probably 1970s. A lot number should be stamped on the inside of an end flap. It can be accurately dated knowing that lot number, which is actually production dating in code. I know the code.


Thatís great news, hereís the lot number. The other numbers in print have no relation ? Maybe just related to carton / print codes ?






Last edited by CLASSIC12; 09-06-2018 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GF View Post
I have a coupla' boxes of that same ammo.

I thought they were older than that, glad the thread cleared up the age.



I bought the Winchester 158gr and some Remington wadcutters for $8 a box. He had a bunch, I shoulda' bought it all!



GF
Indeed at that price I would have taken them all



Quote:
Originally Posted by Class III View Post
The box clearly shows the "WARNING Keep out of reach of children" stamping. This was implemented in 1962. So, your box is no older than 1962. It should be perfectly fine to shoot if it has been stored properly. Unless the box is full with the correct era ammunition and the box is in pristine condition it's no more valuable than a partial box of current production Winchester White Box 38 Spcl 130 Gr FMJ.


Class III


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Originally Posted by italiansport View Post
Full box in good condition - somewhat collectible. Partial box in rough condition - enjoy shooting it.
Jim


Thanks, one box is full, the other one has 20 more rounds, plus 5 Norma JHP +P, and 11 CCI shotshells.










Iíll probably shoot them in my 70ies Colt, I like the idea of period correct ammo for older guns (within reason, tried some Swiss ordnance 9mm from the 50ies, it was like click, 2 seconds, bang. Ended up pulling the bullets).




Last edited by CLASSIC12; 09-06-2018 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLASSIC12 View Post
(within reason, tried some Swiss ordnance 9mm from the 50ies, it was like click, 2 seconds, bang.)
I bet that is special ammo to make sure you get your aim back straight after jerking the trigger! I could use some of that.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:42 AM
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They use it to warm-up for their flintlock matches.
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:16 AM
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58 EB 51 is the lot number stamped inside the end flap.

That translates to the loading date being Feb 15, 1971. Read right to left: 51=15
B = February
E = 1971
58 usually indicates a loading line
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:27 AM
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Thanks for that date info.

I always wondered how old the yellow ammo boxs of Win. 270, were.
I have an even older box of Norma, that has held up well, also.

One shot kills make a box of ammo last a long time..........
Geeeeze.........
50 years, almost !!
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Old 09-06-2018, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
58 EB 51 is the lot number stamped inside the end flap.

That translates to the loading date being Feb 15, 1971. Read right to left: 51=15
B = February
E = 1971
58 usually indicates a loading line


Great, thanks a lot for the info.

Just told my wife those were one year younger than her, and look great too. Might be sleeping on the couch tonight.
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Old 09-06-2018, 03:27 PM
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While Iím at it ...

Anyone knows if those are factory or reloads ? Came without the box. Iíve never seen bullets shaped like that. In fact and as far as I can remember (1989), here in Switzerland most commercial ammo sold has been jacketed.









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Old 09-06-2018, 05:03 PM
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I would say they are factory, but I do not remember ever seeing that bullet design. Maybe a semi-wadcutter popular in Europe?
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Old 09-06-2018, 10:01 PM
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I would also think they are factory. Here in Pennsylvania I was given some identical cartridges that came in a old, disintegrating Remington box. The box was literally moldy, so I tossed it. Still have the ammo around here somewhere.

I also remember my Dad had a coffee can full of .38 ammo with that style bullet that he had gotten from a friend who was with the Philly PD in the late 1960's. It worked real good in my Highway Patrolman in 1989.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLASSIC12 View Post
While Iím at it ...

Anyone knows if those are factory or reloads ?





Reloads.
Look at the resizing die scratches.
Look at the nasty crimp.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector View Post
Reloads.
Look at the resizing die scratches.
Look at the nasty crimp.
Factories can create such features too.

I see no expansion near the case head so my vote is factory.

I purchased Remington ammo with the same style SWC. I didn't like the nose profile with rounded edge that almost eliminated the flat tip so I started purchasing Winchester SWC. Years later, Remington started producing a SWC with the normal size flat point and that's what I now use.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector View Post
Reloads.
Look at the resizing die scratches.
Look at the nasty crimp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiter1 View Post
Factories can create such features too.



I see no expansion near the case head so my vote is factory.



I purchased Remington ammo with the same style SWC. I didn't like the nose profile with rounded edge that almost eliminated the flat tip so I started purchasing Winchester SWC. Years later, Remington started producing a SWC with the normal size flat point and that's what I now use.

Thanks for input.

At first I also thought reloads. But then again, I think most reloaders do a thorough and precise job. When you see scratches like that, you stop and check your die. Same for the crimp. The machine doesnít stop. The primers look factory to me. I have no experience with old lead / SWC ammo though, so no point of comparison.
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiter1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector View Post
Reloads.
Look at the resizing die scratches.
Look at the nasty crimp.

Factories can create such features too.

I see no expansion near the case head so my vote is factory.

Yes, a factory can create such features, but I've never seen anything that crummy come out of Remington.


Some sizing dies don't leave a ring you can see. I know this because I have shaped/polished/refurbished some carbide dies used in Ammo-Load machines in my past. Then, I loaded ammo with those dies. Ever done 40,000 rounds in a day?


I seriously doubt Rem would seat and crimp with the same die as obviously happened with these rounds. They would seat a swaged bullet with a seating die and crimp at the next station. Most reloading companies worth their salt do that. We were doing it in the 70s. I just don't think Rem would ship ammo with that severe lead shaving at the crimp.

I also doubt Rem would ship ammo that dirty. Lube is everywhere- even on some of the heads. They would have cleaned them after loading.


If you really want to know, pull one bullet, decap the case, and see if there is any carbon in the primer pocket from a previous firing. There might also be some carbon inside the case if they did not clean the brass before loading.



Factory?
Really?
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:04 PM
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Those heads are similar to those on a box of R-P .357 158gr SWC ammo, altho not true SWCs like those on the competing W-W 158 lead loads.

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Old 09-15-2018, 04:08 AM
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I've got some similar ammo but it S&W 32 long.



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Old 09-15-2018, 07:44 AM
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Leeís right. Thereís no point in guessing. Pull one of the bullets and have a look, but be aware even that approach isnít the last word. Itís always possible a custom-loader or a handloaded used new brass. I would hate to hazard a guess either way. Itís crummy looking stuff for Remington - if it did come from them.
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Old 09-15-2018, 11:26 AM
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I know it is in W-W boxes......

but those bullets with all the gunk on them, look more like a.........
Remington bullet.

Interesting, though.
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Old 09-15-2018, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
I know it is in W-W boxes......

but those bullets with all the gunk on them, look more like a.........
Remington bullet.

Interesting, though.


Two different lots :

Those are Winchester and came in the corresponding box



Those are without box, and are Remington (the cases at least).



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Old 09-21-2018, 02:32 AM
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Post Really old loaded US 38 S&W with US on primer

I have 20 rounds that you could actually still shoot of the 38 S&W
That is marked on the back of the ammo on the rim US 38 S&W in the primers are the same color and stamp to US as well the bullets look like they are solid lead ball what they wax powdery coding thereís 20 rounds all stamped with the US from the primer and probably 40 or 50 more without the US stamped I seen the people were looking for him figure there was a little bit of money but if anybody wants him because like I said usually no one even has one of these rounds loaded And I have 20 that are loaded with the US markings on the primer and then I have like I said 40 or 50 more loaded the same just the primer different anyone interested email me my information is supposed to be visible but Iíll leave my contact info on here Iím always up for trades for military gear or the PRC 126 128 for the PRC 68 radios let me know what you got to do some trade Instead of you paying cash for it but weíll figure something out I have no use for them
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