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Old 10-05-2018, 01:45 PM
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Default Old Treasury Dept. Loads.

So, I've had these sitting in the safe a while(years). Just wondering if there is any collector value to them. Should I throw them back in the safe and let them cook a few more years? Federal red &white box No. 38F-TD. I did a search and learned they are +p+ or equavilant. Neutered .357 from the days when the gov. was trying to please the libs....Found some old threads, but nothing recent.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:16 PM
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I love those old Federal Boxes. Brings back memories of my youth.
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:11 PM
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I don't believe they have much of a premium, but your question could probably be answered better on the International Ammunition Association's forum.
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:25 PM
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When I retired from my police department in 1990 and was hired as a Special Deputy US Marshal (Court Security Officer) we were issued S&W model 10s with 4" barrel and those cartridges were our issue load. They seemed to work well and I never noticed any unusual damage to any of the revolvers through their use.
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
I don't believe they have much of a premium, but your question could probably be answered better on the International Ammunition Association's forum.
In a way, I was hoping this wasn't collectable. I am wondering if my model 60 no dash would be abused by shooting these little hod rod rounds? I opened my ammo safe and specifically dug this out to load my model 60 while carrying it. Thought I should make sure it wasn't collectable before sending it down range. The cases are stamped 86. That's the year I graduated HS. Just feels right to carry it in the classic model 60. Opinions welcome....
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Old 10-06-2018, 02:58 AM
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5-10 rounds is not going to destroy a Model 60, but you may find the gun difficult to control when touching off these cartridges. I might prefer to use them in a heavier K-frame with a longer barrel. I would not sell them: "business" ammunition like this may come in handy some day.

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Old 10-06-2018, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaaskop49 View Post
5-10 rounds is not going to destroy a Model 60, but you may find the gun difficult to control when touching off these cartridges. I might prefer to use them in a heavier K-frame with a longer barrel. I would not sell them: "business" ammunition like this may come in handy some day.

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Well, a K frame 3" is on the list. Wouldn't be the first time I bought a gun because I had the ammo.

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Old 10-06-2018, 12:42 PM
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Even though they are Federal ammo, they look a little like the W-W 110 gr SJHP bullet.

In my 686 6" with 38 Spl. cases I shoot a warm load at 1132fps but I can
step up to 1305fps that might be close to the Treasury loading and it shots to POA.

I do shot all of them, so they don't find a little J frame, and I never
leave an extra laying around, just to be on the safe side.

Still a great load in it's day.
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Old 10-07-2018, 04:21 AM
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They only command a premium when you want to buy them. When selling they never seem to - LOL!

I've got a few boxes of the Federal & Winchester Treasury loads and was never overly impressed with either one. I just keep 'em for nostalgia.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
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They only command a premium when you want to buy them. When selling they never seem to - LOL!

I've got a few boxes of the Federal & Winchester Treasury loads and was never overly impressed with either one. I just keep 'em for nostalgia.
I still have some Ny Clads I have to run through before thinking about shooting these. The box, empty or full will go on a shelf in my gun room.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:58 AM
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I believe the original Treasury Load was the Winchester .38 Spl. +P+
110 Gr. Jacketed HP. They had/have WCC on the headstamp. I have
a box of Winchester Rangers that are the same thing. They are marked
Law Enforcement Use Only, but I think that is just a suggestion by the
manufacturer. I hope there is nothing illegal about having or using
them. I shot some from a newer Model 60 .357. Kinda zippy, but
I don't believe they will hurt a model 60.
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:09 AM
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I’m a fan of the 158 grain LSWCHP +P load myself.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:36 AM
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Anybody know when Treasury Loads were totally pulled from the market? I was really asleep on this one but after semi-autos began to dominate I suppose demand totally dried up- hate to lose it as an option as I'm mostly a revolver man. Has the supply chain totally dried up?

Mike
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:14 PM
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My only experience with them was 20 years ago when a buddy who worked at the Gold Vault handed me his brand spankin' new 337 Air Lite. I had been watching him and another friend shooting it with mid range wadcutters. He handed it to me stoked with some of his "work ammo."

It went, "Bang" and I went, "Ow" (much their mirth and merriment) as the triggerguard smacked my knuckle. I fired the rest of cylinder full and got a nice group. The thing was hateful with the little grips and that Treasury ammo.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:20 AM
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I've posted here before that S&W factory reps warned me that this wears guns more than does hot 125 grain .357 ammo.

I wouldn't fire it much and certainly NOT in a Model 60, unless I had to.

Frankly, I'd prefer to avoid firing a lot even in a GP-100.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:41 AM
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I have one box of the 110 gr Winchester Treasury loads that I bought
some years ago. They chronograph a little over 1,000 fps out of my mod
60-7 that is rated for +P. This compared to the Remington 125 gr +P
Golden Saber at around 875 fps shows they are warm but nowhere near
.357 power levels. I can't imagine the 110s could blow up a mod 60
but might cause more rapid forcing cone wear if a lot of them were
fired. The Treasury loads probably would be a good option for a SD
load in a steel J frame but I wouldn't shoot any in my 37 for fear of
the dreaded frame crack under the forcing cone.
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:00 AM
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I got hold of some Treasury 110 grain 38 +P+ loads some years ago. Chronographed some. I'd have to dig through a bunch of chronograph notes to find the exact numbers, but I do recall velocity was unimpressive. I would have no concern at all in shooting all I wanted through any of my .357 revolvers, or my little steel framed S&W J-Frame .38 Spcl. revolver.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:52 AM
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I would hold on to them just in case you need something like them in the future. You never can tell what you might need.

I have several different older 38/357 ammo I set aside. They include the original .38 Special Nyclad ammo, older service issue Winchester .357 Magnum ammo, the FBI Load and a few others.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:05 PM
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I have the Federal version that were given to me by someone who's agency formally issued them. I like them but the only time I have used them in a .38 caliber weapon was a S&W " Heavy
Duty ". The remainder were fired in various .357 Magnum weapons. Using them in .38 caliber weapons is not uncommon however. As I remember the Mich. State Police used a variant in there duty and back up revolvers and I am sure their are others.
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Old 10-14-2018, 02:59 PM
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We had the same load in the Secret Service - either W-W or Federal 110 gr JHP +P+. We had Model 19 2.5 inch Combat Magnums back then and a lot of guys had second guns or off duty guns that were Model 60s or 36s or 37s, etc. We were told not to use the duty ammo in airweights but I don't think it would have hurt them really. That is good load to shoot out of a K or N frame Smith but it does smart a little out of a J frame gun.

Shoot it up - have fun.

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Old 10-14-2018, 04:52 PM
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I shot a lot of it back in the day.
I, too, was not overly impressed. I don't remember if I shot it out of a J frame, but it sounds like something I would do.
Out of a K frame, they seemed rather mild in recoil.


Pics of a box of WCC. Note what it says on back.


Old Treasury Dept. Loads.-003-jpg
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Old 10-14-2018, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector View Post
I shot a lot of it back in the day.
I, too, was not overly impressed. I don't remember if I shot it out of a J frame, but it sounds like something I would do.
Out of a K frame, they seemed rather mild in recoil.


Pics of a box of WCC. Note what it says on back.


Old Treasury Dept. Loads.-003-jpg
The same paragraph is on the back of my Federal Box. I have to send off my 340PD to the Mothership. Erosion, imagine that. Anyway, broke out the model 60 no dash into the rotation. Loaded the cylinder with these. Got to get to the range before the go on they street.

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Old 10-14-2018, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector View Post
I shot a lot of it back in the day.
I, too, was not overly impressed. I don't remember if I shot it out of a J frame, but it sounds like something I would do.
Out of a K frame, they seemed rather mild in recoil.


Pics of a box of WCC. Note what it says on back.


Old Treasury Dept. Loads.-003-jpg
And an absolute puddy tat out of an N-Frame.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:12 PM
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Not quite the same paragraph.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:01 AM
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Friend of mine was an officer of the U.S. Park Police in the 80s when their duty sidearm was the HB 10/64. The service ammunition was the 110gr Treasury Load with which they qualified. My friend reported no undue effects on his service revolvers from using this ammo, including his Model 60 off-duty gun.

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Old 10-15-2018, 10:28 AM
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Back in the heyday of Treasury loads, getting your hands on them was a challenge; everyone wanted them and the LEO restriction was rigidly enforced, at least at the gun show I regularly attended. Tell people they can't have something and they'll want it for sure. This one big seller had a table full of the Winchester brand but while you could see them, you couldn't reach them. The guy would put you through the third degree regarding LE and I flunked the quiz, not getting the ammo. After the switch to semi-autos, things loosened up, LE sold off their excess inventories and you could buy them without going through the twenty questions thing.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:04 PM
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For what it's worth - ammo development has made tremendous advances and there are now many great options for .38 special self defense style ammo. I wasn't overly confident in carrying this Treasury load in my duty weapon and truth be told , I carried W-W .357 mag silvertips in my HKS speedloaders. The Treasury load didn't penetrate very deeply and penetration is key to handgun bullet performance.
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Old Yesterday, 09:25 PM
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The cartridges in the OP are not stamped +P+, are they Treasury Loads???
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