I think our gun writer articles have a lot to do with it. When we read articles like " New 9mm ammo out does 40 cal." "Recoil in 40 cal. to much to handle" " 9mm just as good as 40cal." and it goes on and on. it just sways our thinking.
Just My Opinion.

Quote, "Right from the beginning the .40 seemed to me to be troublesome " Where do you come up with this troublesome stuff?
It's proven very effective in LE work and is popular here in the Midwest.
It's a good choice between the 9mm and 45acp for those officers that do not have large enough hands for the 45acp and don't want the 9mm.

The .40 S&W is not dead in my family. I know many agencies have switched to 9mm ammo to cut costs but that doesn't make the 9mm a better personal protection round.

I recently watched this 10:27m YouTube video on 9mm vs .40 S&W vs 45 ACP shooting at a stack of paper plates...


You can skip to the 9:00m mark to view the test results. The presenter seems to think the number of plates is more important than the bullet expansion after digging through the stack to retrieve the fired bullets. I do not. I'll take the nice mushroomed .40 S&W round for my PD choice.

I predict that sometime in the future a large law enforcement agency will have a failure to stop while using the 9mm. It will be widely publicized. The 40 SW will be touted as the answer. The circle will then be complete.

All I can say is what I've observed, and here it is:

I see a ton of 40 ammo sitting on store shelves nearly everywhere I go. Back during the last ammo "scare", 40 was the only ammo readily available around where I live.

I see a ton of used 40 semi auto pistols filling up gun store shelves.

Does this mean anything? Who knows, it's just what I've seen.


Now...personally, I have zero interest in 40. I've shot them, I do like the round. There's zero reason for me to list my "reasons", I just personally don't have a need for one.

The 40 is dead if you're an FBI wannabe police department. They
follow the latest fashion trends and the cool kids on the runway
don't like 40's.

But for folks like me, I'll buy them all day.

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never get out of the boat

The nice thing with Glock .40's, is you can easily buy a replacement barrel in 9mm or .357 sig. And when .40 is "all the rage" again in 10 years, you can put your .40 barrel back in.

Cheapest way to keep up on the latest trends.

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Watch & Pray

That's one really nice thing about conversion barrels in a 40 semi auto. I've always had some goofy crush on .357 SIG, but I won't drop the $$ to buy one. If I could have dropped in a conv barrel, I'd do that for sure.

I like the 40sw caliber. Sure,it's a little "snappier" in recoil than a 9mm, but it's knockdown power and car body penetration is worth it.

Wow! 59 threads proving and disproving a cartridge that's been effective for over 26 years!

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S&W Accumulator

[QUOTE=typetwelve;140195163]That's one really nice thing about conversion barrels in a 40 semi auto. I've always had some goofy crush on .357 SIG, but I won't drop the $$ to buy one. If I could have dropped in a conv barrel, I'd do that for sure.[/QUOTE]

Bar-Sto makes drop in conversions for just about every plastic-fantastic pistol out there. So does StormLake...

Recoil doesn't both me either as I'm into short barreled .44mags these days for Woods carry and .44Special for Street carry; and I practice quite a bit with both. Glock is responsible for lots of people hating the .40caliber. Try shooting a G27 with 165grain Gold Dots or 165grain anything. I carried a G27 (albeit with 180grain GD's) for 5 years and then an M&P40c for the next 5 until I got into CZ's "P-01" platform. The M&P40c soaks up the recoil so well every ammo I tried shoots like a 9mm. The M&P platform was designed for 40 caliber from the start... that's the difference.

No, 40S&W is not dead. Rumors of it's demise are greatly exaggerated. I really like 40 personally, but it is much less popular now than 10 years ago.
The pendulum of popularity is swinging back toward 9mm now because it is easier for most folks to shoot from compact & sub compact platforms. Then there is the FBI decision, which I think is for a variety of reasons and involves compromise. 40 was always less popular than 9, but more shooters will be dissuaded from ever even trying 40.

I always hear the comment that bullet design improvement has made 9mm much more viable for SD.
Yes, I agree.

However....
Hasn't that same improvement bolstered 40S&W's and even to some degree 45Auto's terminal effectiveness too?
I believe the answer is also, yes.

I've had a Glock 27 for years. I gave it to my wife as I didn't like it but she liked it for her purse. I don't even recall what it's recoil was like. I didn't like it as it was too much of a square chunk. For me it didn't conceal any better than the G23 and it didn't fit my hand at all. The G23 shoots great. I never tried the G30 but I doubt I'd have liked it or the G26 either.

The .40 has a larger “thumping factor” than 9mm, but not by much. 9 has more beneys.

Why yes, of course the .40 S&W is dead. Nobody owns any anymore. Nobody makes ammunition for it. Parents shun children who deny the death of .40 S&W, divorces are filed, FBI agents whom in private say .40 "wasn't so bad" get reassigned to TSA in Gander, Newfoundland.

But .40 S&W is not alone. 9 Parabellum is dead, those fancy avant-garde 5.7x28s and .40 S&W killed them a decade ago. People with nines are regularly held on 72 hour Psych evaluations due to thier caliber choice.

And .38 Special is dead. Those nines killed .38 in the civilian world...

Likewise .45 acp is dead, also a victim of the nine.

.357 dead, too loud, .44 Maggie likewise. .460, .41, .327, anything NAA, dead before it hit the market. .44 Colt, .44 Special, dead back when Grandpa was a youngin.

.32acp, 5.7x28 eurotrash.

What is left?

.22LR, preferably loaded with BP.

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Certified Curmudgeon

I don't own one but I see a fare about of brass scattered around the range where I shoot. Not as popular as 9mm but more popular than 45acp or the 45 acp guys (me included) pick up their brass.

I have one a Sig P226 in 40 S&W and I won't be selling it anytime soon. I also like to reload 40 S&W ammo as brass is easy to find.

Ya, and don't forget the auto killed off the revolver in ...... what was it...... the 1980s with the introduction of the 15 shot "Wonder-nine"!!!!

And all this time I thought the .40 S&W was a very good cartridge.

According to the internet gurus I need to sell off all of my .40's, the ammo, the brass, and the dies.

But then how do I make major in Limited 10 in USPSA?

Some sarcasm here..........I started this thread because so many interweb gurus decried the .40 as being dead, that no pawn shops will take them, nor will any gun shops.... I wanted to see what my fellow members had to say.
None of mine are for sale by the way...yes, I own 8-10 of them in various configurations, and I will still pick up all of the 9mm-.40-.38 spl,-.357 mag. -.357 sig - .45 acp small and large primer that I can find.

As mentioned before the pendulum will swing back.....look at the renewed interest in 10mm handguns......

Hope it provided some level of entertainment fellow forum members!!

Randy

Gun writers have been preaching to us about calibers for years. Most of their claims about stopping, shocking, knockdown power etc. are based on anecdotes with little or no science to backup their claims. Many of us have had our beliefs formed by them and some of us cling to those beliefs with something akin to a religious fervor. I stopped believing some time ago.

For me the .40 was made in ugly plastic formats, except maybe for the Browning HP, so I went with the 10mm Delta and when I wanted plastic the G20 kept me from adding another caliber to the pile. It is probably the only caliber I don’t have. But if I were to find a HP in .40 that might change.

Troublesome??? There were some guns that were troublesome with the 40, but not the cartridge. Overrated?? 40 SW 135gr Corbon 546.26 FPE all From BBTI 4"
357 mag125gr Corbon 621.11 FPE
357 Sig 125gr Corbon 598.08 FPE
9mm +P 125gr Corbon 417.15 FPE
45 acp+P 185 gr Corbon 505.16 FPE

The 9mm with magic bullets are overrated, yes I have read the FBI protocol, what have the street results been? I do not believe I have seen better one shot stop record than 357 mag 125 gr. The 40 SW probably at its best with 165 gr,+P 9 & 45 do not match the 40 SW. So what is wrong with it ? As stated all #'s are BBTI 4" bbl. All should be effective and with premium rounds should be very similar in price. Be Safe,

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

I'm satisfied: The "Magic bullet" has been found! Location: Dallas Texas, on a stretcher, date of find: Nov. 22, 1963. Caliber IIRC: 6.5 Italian Carcano.

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Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

Not to me it's not. I own three of them, and carry a fourth on duty.

"And the new Whammo Blammo Ammo brings the .38 back to life!!!!!"

Next month read "Is the 9mm with Whammo Blammo Ammo the final nail in the coffin of the .38 Special?"

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

"Is it really true the 40 S&W is dead?"

NO

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Not to me! Just picked up a used s&w model 4046 cheep. It was an old Brinks armored car company piece. Love the feel of it. Steel baby, jot plastic!

Attached Images

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The verdict: In the Police Trade In Case at GT Distributors .40 S&W glocks 22 and 23 are cheap the 17 and 19 are almost as much as a new pistol.
Geoff
Who notes if you buy a recycled 23, and a 9mm and 357 SIG barrel, you will have spent more than the price of a new Glock 9mm.

the 'foty was dead too me the day it hit the gun magazines and put on the market. Too me, it's fanfare was similar to that of the "as seen on TV" commercials for the remco super slicer juicer, heralded as the new wonder round that would do it all. I didn't believe the hype then, and time has proven (after Law Enforcement agencies across America have spent a ton of dough on the gimmick) that its not a marked improvement of the cartridges it was designed to replace. At the time published ballistics should have squashed it before it went mainstream in LE circles.

Less accurate than the .45 ACP or 9mm due to high pressures. It promised superior performance to the 9mm or .45 ACP, but doesn't deliver enough to justify changing from either of those cartridges.

Remember the history of it. It was a politically correct round developed for women and people with small hands. In the aftermath of the infamous Miami shootout, the FBI wanted a round that was devastating. I guess they forgot they already had that in the .357 Magnum. Anyway, the 10mm was born, and the FeeBee's found that the round was too much for women agents, and a lot of men. 10mm lite rounds were born, but that didn't solve the issue of the size of the pistol grip for small hands. The .40 S&W was the result.

Unfortunately, there are some in the Military that look to the .40 S&W as the answer to what they think they need in a side arm. Hopefully that will never gain traction.

Now, the .357 Sig, I thought that round would really take off, but I don't think it has.

I am also one who was never smitten by the 40. The arguments about the 10mm being too much recoil for female officers/agents and the pistols chambered in 10mm having too large of a grip for female officers/agents is highly questionable. When the 40 was developed, it was placed into pistols designed as high capacity 9x19mm pistols. I have medium sized hands, when it comes to high cap sized pistols, the Hi Power and CZ-75 type pistols are quite comfortable for me, but the metal framed S&W's with arched back straps and the Beretta 92 series feel a bit oversized to me. I can't see how these would feel right for a female with smaller hands, so I find the argument of grip size to be highly questionable.

As for recoil, yes, the full power 10mm has recoil. It's ballistics easily match or slightly exceed those of the .357 Magnum and they both recoil about the same in my experience. Is this too much for a female? Depends upon the individual female and, just like the .357, ammo does not have to be full power to be effective, so I find the recoil argument to be highly questionable.

I don't have enough experience with 40 to say if it is any worse than the 9x19mm or 45 ACP in terms of accuracy, but it seems that the 9x19mm and 45 ACP are the more likely choices for precision pistol shooting.

When it comes to our military, I think they will stick with the 9x19mm so long as that is the standardized caliber for NATO. I know the MEU SOC and MARSOC units went back to the 45 ACP and in the 1911 platform quite a while ago, but even they are going back to the 9x19mm and this time it is in the Glock 19.

Never owned one, never shot one, and like stated above I never saw the
need for a 40 S&W. I own a Colt 38 super and Springfield 45 acp. I am
not one to jump on the latest most decorated band wagon. Same holds
true for plastic guns, AR's, and in line muzzle loaders.
My usual carry is a S&W 44 special and for my purposes fits all my needs.
At times carry the two mdl 11's above and occasionally a Colt .357 trooper.
I realize the gun manufactures need new guns for sales increases, gun shops
and people who write about guns need new material, but, most of their efforts
are wasted on me.
If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm an old fuddy-duddy.

caveat, I would never want to be on the receiving end of incoming from one.

The 40 S&W is not dead and probably will never die. It's all a matter preference or expense. Trends change all the time. What's happening now, is outdated tomorrow. If you follow that flow, you'll be chasing ghosts forever. The 40 cal. will always out perform the 9mm and most of the time the .45 in ballistics and/or stopping power. I've read so many articles and watched so many videos on this issue it's pathetic. Some Police departments have switched to the 9mm, not because it's a better performer but because it's cheaper. As we know, some officers purchase their own firearms, ones THEY prefer. Police departments get their monies from the taxpayers so they are limited in what they have to spend. 9mm, being cheaper is their go to firearm for that reason. That, and the fact that it has more firepower, which we know they need that because they have to send 300 rounds at an assailant to hit him 10-20 times. I own both a 9mm and a .40 and i like them both but for self defense, I would choose the .40 hands down, without a second thought. Shoot what you prefer and shoot well, and if you tell me you can shoot your 9mm better than you can a .40, then just think how much better you could shoot a .380! NO, the .40 isn't going anywhere for a long time!

It's not dead for me. Pretty good defense round. Just need to find ammo that works 100% in your gun...something you might have to pay more attention to than, say, 9mm or with revolvers. The great thing to me about .40 is what happened in the ammo drought 5 years ago: It was the last cal. ammo to disappear off the shelf.

I am not a fan of the .40 however, I do carry it from time to time as well as 9mm and my forever desired. 357sig. As far as the .40 being a "dead" cartridge I would say definitely not... Just because the FBI changed directions means nothing they just found a way to save money!
Load up what you are comfortable with, be proficient with what you shoot the best.
Be safe and live with your head on a swivel

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M&P 357sig,G31 357sig,M&P 9

A day at the pistol range almost always includes the below Sig P226 in .40 S&W.
On the other hand, if I had it to do over I would have gotten a 9mm to save on ammo.

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Buy American
Vote Responsibly

The 40 S&W isn't anything I am personally interested in. I already reload 9 MM, 45 Auto and 357 Mag and the pistols I already own pretty much cover the use of anything you would use a 40 for. But I also don't think it's a dead round either, in that there are still quite a few folks out there that like the round and the pistols that run it. It's just not something I am interested in at my stage of life.

If the 40 S&W is dead then that just leaves more ammo for me. I have 2 and I love them. If you don't like them don't shoot them. I use one of mine every time I go to the range. I also take my 45 Shield and my 9mm Kahr.

I was in law enforcement for over 26 years during the great firearms-caliber transition period, (38/357 to 9mm to 40 s&w). A lot of law enforcement agencies switched over to the 9mm due to a perceived needed increase in "fire power". However many agencies found that the available HP 9mm ammo lacked sufficient retained mass after penetrating barriers to be "lethal". Thus one of the reasons for the switch over to the larger/heavier 40 S&W rounds but still retaining decent ammo capacity. Now with the aggressive development of 9mm bullets due to the popularity of the round for civilian CCW we now have "premium" bullets that retain sufficient mass after penetrating barriers. However, as Law Enforcement agencies blindly follow the FBI in switching back to the 9mm, that switch is predicated on using the newest/latest premium 9mm ammo and that is going to be expensive for agencies. Unfortunately, my fear is, some agencies that make the switch will then "Low Bid" their ammo and they will find themselves back where they were in the 1990's. One of the real reasons that agencies are switching is due to the fact they are having problems getting personnel to qualify during basic training and then during annual qualifications. This is an attempt to fix a training issue with an equipment change. Lets face it, many of todays law enforcement personnel are not shooters and the only time they fire their weapons are when they are required to qualify. They WILL NOT shoot on their own to maintain any proficiency. Also do not discount that there is also the nudge by the gun and ammunition manufacturers to convince agencies to buy new guns and ammo in a depressed market, that is good for their bottom line.

Another thing the .40cal has going for it is that it has that natural flat meplate design into it's basic ball form of ammo... Of which is much more devastating than any round nose/tip which just nudges and slides it's way thru tissue like our beloved ball 9mm, .38Spec, and .45acp does... That flat point meplate acts as a crush medium against flesh and bone much more than any round nose projectile can/will/does...

My agency recently made the switch to 9mm. So did sister agencies in the two states to our south. I wouldn't classify the .40 as dead, but its use nation wide is definitely on the decline.

It's the 9mm that ought to be on its last legs.

Talkin' about a ho-hum, overrated cartridge, the 9mm is it. And, all the trick bullets in the world won't make the 9mm into something superior.

I hope the s&w40 isn't dead, I'll have to start buying jackets for my home swaged bullets again. Free brass/free lead ='s free bullets.



Keep shooting those 40cal's so I can keep shoot the 44cal's & 45cal's. Seeing how the 9mm keeps coming up in this thread might as well be politically correct and give the 9mm equal billing.


FWIW:
The easiest bullet to make/home swage from range brass is turning 9mm brass into 40s&w bullets. Long live the 9mm so everyone can have free bullets for the 40s&w's.

You're mistaken. For that to be true all three rounds would have needed to start at the same place and proceed through a linear development to arrive at the same place. This is not the case and you're practicing false equivalency. It's basic science, something I know most who engage in caliber debates have no real interest in.

Choose whichever service caliber you want, at this point they're all good. But don't think a few millimeters in bore size will save your *** or make your mojo stronger, because you'll be in for disappointment.