A HARD CAST wadcutter over a stiff charge of powder makes for a top stopper on man or beast!

This is the part that the vast majority of posts on this topic cannot grasp:

• Wadcutters are bullets, not cartridges.

To them, anything with the word wadcutter means a powderpuff commercial target cartridge.

Velocities seem awfully low for "+P" ammo with a 130 grain bullet. Those are barely hotter than light target loads.
Though, that seems to be the case with ammo from the major makers.

I'd like to see what those bullets would do when loaded in .357 Magnum brass, to right around 1,000 fps.

As is, they seem like they finally made a SD load for the model 52.

I need to buy some.
Too bad, they don't sell just the bullets. I'd love to load them to find out their true potential.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

I remember shooting a few of these with a mild load of Unique out of my S&W 638 and they slightly flattened the primers so I put them aside. Last weekend I shot some out of my Taurus 605 and they did very well with no pressure signs. I will definitely work up loads for the Taurus and my K frame S&W's. Don't know why the 638 can't handle them. It does fine with factory +P loads. Maybe it has a tighter bore or something. It does fine with other cast bullets. Go figure.

Problem with police body cam and even autopsy etc is that there are like no police agency’s using 38 special snub nose revolvers. Most use 9mm or 40 S&W. Those few that do use 38 wojld be at least 4 inch barrel.

Luckygunners gel test for the gold dots are not at all impressive to me.

Paul Hurrel cideos show the defend Winchester to be a poor performer . Bufflo bore hardcast semiwadcutters was stopped by the fleece in his “meat test”. He Buffalo bore soft cast wadcutter was stopped by the tshirt on the exit side and were well expanded. Seems like no over penetration and expansion and did bust a rib. Both seemed to perform as good or better than other bullets.

To answer your question. I would use the Underwood 158+P lead hollow point semiwadcutter. There specs are from a 3" bbl,so velocity and energy would be slightly less than listed.
That round will not lead up your bbl and will expand 40 to 50% according to reviews. The energy level will surpass most if not all 38 Special ammo. Buffilo Bore is another maker of lead bullets.
If not a lead HP,then a semiwadcutter.
If you are recoil sensitive, go with the non +p.

Be SAFE and Shoot often

JIM CIRILLO, FAMED MEMBER OF THE NYPD'S "STAKE OUT SQUAD", WAS INVOLVED IN MORE GUNFIGHTS THAN WYATT EARP. HE RELIED ON WHATEVER BRAND OF WADCUTTER AMMO, IN .38 SPECIAL, THAT HIS DEPARTMENT WAS USING TO TRAIN ITS NEW RECRUITS. HE KILLED AT LEAST 11 CRIMINALS, AND PUT DOWN SEVERAL MORE, IN 20 CLOSE QUARTER GUNFIGHTS....

PICK UP A COPY OF EITHER "GUNS, BULLETS AND GUNFIGHTS", OR "TALES OF THE STAKEOUT SQUAD", TO LEARN MORE FROM THIS REAL LIFE HERO, AND EXPERT......

JIM WAS TRAGICALLY KILLED IN AN AUTOMOBILE ACCIDENT, IN UPPER NY STATE, IN 2007.......

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

FINALLY!! SD ammo is available for the S&W model 52.
I can shoot the HBWCs at the range, and load it with these for the drive home.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

Show me what those bullets look and the damage done after it hits a sternum or a rib. And the amount of penetration it gets after saiid bone hit.

And then I will be convinced.

They sure look pretty in pure gel though. The only problem with that, is I have yet to see a bad guy who was made of 100% gel.

I am a long time Buffalo Bore customer myself as their velocity claims are spot on, or even higher in some guns/instances. But their shipping prices got exorbitant and their pricing in general is a bit over the top.

So I thought I would give Underwood a shot a year ago. Basically, it's an apples to apples comparison; the advertised velocity is spot on with Buffalo Bore. Both "BB" and Underwood provide excellent ammo that does extremely close to what they claim it will... But Underwood has a flat rate of $7.95 and their ammo prices are about 60% of what Buffalo Bore charges.

The only caveat I've found with one particular load Underwood manufacturers/sells and it is their .38Special Full-Wad-Cutter, 150 grain projectiles. They don't appear to be Hard Cast designed and the product description doesn't say if they are Hard Cast or not so I'm betting they aren't. Not a big deal for some but for me I'd rather have a hard cast. So for that reason I still use Buffalo Bore's version because it's loaded to the same spec but is a true Hard Cast Bullet. I like a hard cast wad cutter because it's tendency to pile drive thru bone. The "pelvis/hip" & lower abdomen area whether shooting at paper or steel silhouettes are where me and the wife train for cylinder dumps with our "J" frames. I was always a center mass and head shot kind of guy before I got to talking to some old NYC beat cops that retired from their 20+ years of duty. Several are members of my club and while trading war stories told me of first hand accounts of just what 2 or 3 full wadcutters at close range into the lower abdomen does to a perp from a 2" J frame. It takes all inclination to fight right out of them . YMMV of course...

Remington 158 grain +P LHP rode in my backup J-frame snubbie for twenty-one years and still do. You get an honest 800 fps with them; never heard of unsatisfied customers on either end.

Go to the Underwood website and go the 38 wadcutter load scroll down to desciption
Where it states hard cast wadcutter!
Ill stick with the Underwood $13.50 a box sna somtimes on sale at Midway
For $11.99 vs $25 for BB.

I have shot and like the Underwood and BB hard cast full wadcutter loads. They are my loads for .38spl in the woods.

Not sure if they are any better than target wadcutters for self defense, though. Target wadcutters have a nice caliber-sized crush cavity, too, and meet the FBI spec WRT penetration. Even out of a snubby through clothing barrier.

UW & BB hard cast wadcutters tend to penetrate crazy-well through gel/simulated tissue. Like one test I recall 32"+. I am not overpentration-phobic, but that is Joe Piscopo ".88 Magnum, it shoots through schools" territory.