My brother has always been the hunter in the family. I am the target shooter but I have always kept at least one deer hunting rifle in the safe. Currently it is a Parker Hale small ring Mauser .243. I haven’t actually gone deer hunting since the beginning of the 21st century, but there is a guided service available half hour from where I live offering Sika and Fallow deer.

For a number of reasons I am going through my rifles rationalising each one and selling off tnose I can not justify keeping. It has come down to either my Parker Hale .243 or my Henry Big Bore .357 Magnum.

Personally I would prefer to keep the Henry, fit it with a scope base and sight it in for 100 meters (the longest range I have available to me and the longest realistic hunting distance in my area). But the question I have is will this take a deer humanly?

Or should I keep the Parker Hale “just in case”?

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View from down under

The .357 is a good cartridge for deer but bullet placement is the key. I've killed deer with .357 from a handgun and a lever action rifle. I think 100 yards is the max I would try.

Keep the Parker Hale

What kind of terrain would you be hunting in? That would pretty much dictate what type of rifle you would use. Open country with longer distances I'd use the .243. For more wooded & swampy areas with shorter distances I'd use the .357 mag.

357 Magnum out of a rifle will work fine on deer at 100 meters. I think I would stick to the heavier bullets like 158 grain to be on the plus side of penetration. Lightweight hollow points made for self defense might not be the best choice for deer as they might expand too rapidly and not get adequate penetration. 158 grain hollow points or soft points either one should be deadly at any range from point blank to 100 meters or so. I would think the Henry would be great with a Scout Scope. Purist may cringe but nobody's eyes are getting younger.

I am a big fan of the .357. Even so, the .243 is a far superior cartridge for deer.

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and what his trumpet saith

357, YES it can be at closer ranges than the 243 is able to reach. You could also bump the bullet wt to 180 gr & load with some 2400 powder (if available) for ^ velocity. Bullet or cast boolit choice is important if planning on deer hunting & faster than pistol velocities, IMO. I'd probly stick with the 243 too.

Well my thoughts were to keep the. .243 as well. Given that terrain can range from dense scrub to open grassland on the bush edge it is probably the more versatile caliber.

On the other hand the Henry is a much nicer rifle and a bit more difficult to sell here.

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View from down under

One more vote for keeping the 243. Yes the 357 with a 180 grain bullet will kill deer at 100 yards, but the 243 a much better deer rifle.

Do you have a pistol(s) in .38 or .357? If so, I'd keep the Henry and simplify my ammo stock.
.357 is a simpler reload too if you do that.
If a deer hunting is your prime and only consideration, I'd vote for the .243 if the deer in NZ are similar in size to USA white tail deer. If bigger... I'm not sure. You'd probably do better with the .357's heavier bullet and stick to closer range shots, say under 100 yds as you posted.

Versatility and accuracy are outstanding attributes of the .243. As much as I love lever action rifles, I would keep the Parker Hale.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Keep the Parker’s Hale. The .243 is a dandy deerer.

Given a choice between a lever action in .357 Magnum and a bolt action in .243 Winchester for deer hunting, I'd take the .243 Winchester.

Yes, the .357 Magnum with hard cast LSWC bullets of 158 to 180 grains will kill a deer, but requires a more precise hit, broadside as quartering shots may result in poor penetration, and a limit of 100 yards when fired in a rifle.

The .243 Winchester is simply far more powerful. Ranges are not limited to 100 yards. With a 100 grain bullet, 200 yards is easily doable and even 300 yards is not beyond a good kill range.

Then there is accuracy. Lever actions can be accurate, but I doubt there is any mass produced lever action that can equal or exceed a decent bolt action rifle. At least that has been my experience.

Since these are your firearms and you already stated which one you prefer to keep, I'd say the choice is already crystal clear. Keep the .357.

I urge you though, as I urge everyone; do your best to not sell firearms unless you are just unhappy with them.

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Ban this man,
'89

You are looking at this far too rationally if "having" to sell either one of these is that important. I can think of many things a .357/.38 lever action carbine can do outside of hunting in which a .243 would not be near as much fun.

However, to answer your specific question, the .243 'will' handle the hunting situation you describe with some margin to spare (accuracy, power, etc.) and the .357 'may' handle it, as others above stated. Good luck in your decision (but keep them both ).

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

.243 Winchester is one of the most versatile and effective hunting rounds for thin-skinned game. I would much prefer the .243 for deer and similar game animals.

Will the .357 magnum kill deer reliably? Certainly, with proper bullet selection and good shot placement. I have taken a couple of Colorado mule deer (200-300 lbs. live weight) with a .357 magnum revolver, both within about 40 yards and standing still with full side profile offered. I like a hard-cast 158-grain semi-wadcutter that will punch through bone and fully penetrate the heart-lung area, a task for which I do not trust lighter bullets or hollow-points.

Like the .223, 7.62x39, and a number of other cartridges, the .357 Magnum can be used for deer hunting, even humane deer hunting, particularly in the hands of experts who place shots well. Shot placement margin of error is significantly reduced when using cartridges that are already marginal for the purpose.

Keep both .
The 357 can be a deer rifle...if the conditions are just right.
The 243 can do a lot of things the 357 can't and the 357 can do things the 243 would be unsuited for.
I can see justification for both !
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Not to be argumentative, but I can't think of anything a 357 magnum rifle can do that a 243 rifle couldn't, accept shoot 38 special or 357 magnums of course.

Last deer I shot was with a Rossi R92. I used a 158 xtp at 1400 fps. It was broadside at 40 yards. Deer ran about 25 yards . Double lung shot.

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Provided you can reliably get good bullet placement, the .357 Magnum in a rifle will work fine on deer, out to the range where the muzzle energy and velocity are down to the same level you'd see in a 4" revolver at the muzzle.

For example, with my 20" Rossi 92 short rifle, I get a muzzle velocity of 1820 fps and 1170 ft pounds with Federal 158 gr JSP. The time of flight to 175 yards is .35 seconds and that load drops down to 1277 fps and 570 ft pounds - which is the same as 4" revolver performance at the muzzle. That also gets it momentum and Taylor KO scores of 28 and 20.

Trajectory wise, with a 150 yard zero, it will have a maximum mid range trajectory of 3 3/4" at 85 yards, and will be 4" low at 175 yards. Accuracy wise, with a Marbles tang sight and Lyman 17A front sight I get 2 MOA to 2.5 MOA accuracy at 100 yards with both my 20" short rifle and 24" rifle Rossi 92. That's 3" to 3 3/4" at 150 yards, which is as good as or better than most revolver hunters can shoot at 50 yards.

Practically speaking, that lets you hold on a deer sized target, without covering any of the vital zone with the front blade. If you're thinking 100 yards as your maximum, it gives you the ability to estimate the range wrong by a good 50 yards and not have it affect the shot. If you know your business, a 150 yard range is still very reasonable, still allowing for a 25 yard range error.




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The .243 Win with a 100 gr Sierra BTSP has a 5" point blank range of 345 yards with a 290 yard zero with a time of flight to 345 yards of .4 seconds where it has 2,250 fps and 1,124 ft pounds. That results in momentum and KO scores of 32 and 7 - a bit more momentum, but a significantly lower KO score than the 158 gr .357 Mag at 175 yards.

Since no one complains about .243 performance at 345 yards, there shouldn't be any complaints about the .357 Magnum fired from a rifle at 150 to 175 yards.

The average .243 Win rifle should be capable of 1 MOA accuracy, so it'll produce a similar 3.5" to 4" group at 345 yards.

Practically speaking then, the .243 has about twice the effective range of the .357 Magnum fired from a rifle, with perhaps a bit less effectiveness in the outer half of the 0-345 yard range compared to a .357 Magnum at 150-175 yards.

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I have a single .243 Win rifle and quite frankly it sees very little range time. Unless the maximum anticipated hunting range is going to be in excess of 150 yards, it'll get left home every time. I prefer to carry one of my Rossi rifles in .357 Magnum, or one of my pre-64 Model 94s in .30-30. (2 MOA accurate, 4" high at 100 yards with a 200 yard zero, 1,570 fps and 813 ft pounds at 200 yards, momentum and Taylor KO of 33 and 10).

I would keep them both

This won’t help if you MUST get rid of one of them, but back here in the States? Most of us would keep both.
Do you have to get rid of one?

If you're only going to have one deer rifle. keep the .243. Or do as I do:

I have a Marlin .357 and a .308. The .308 gets the nod for when the area I'll hunt offers longer shots. The Marlin is my walking around gun or dense brush (i.e., close range) choice.

Think about it this way: which one could you replace easily if you regret getting rid of it? I have to believe you could pick up another Henry fairly easily if you wanted to, but the Parker Hale is probably hard to come by.

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low speed, high drag

The new Hornady Leverevolution .357s would be my choice for deer hunting. They scrape the low end of the .30-30, ballistically.

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Psalm 27:2

Keep them both, t would be a shame to get rid of either.

I did a bunch of loads and sent them over the chronograph for the .357 Magnum in a levergun. I settled on a Sierra 170gr JHC bullet over a full charge of Lil'Gun followed by their 150gr JHC bullet. I have not taken a deer with a .357 Magnum yet.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

All good advise from other, But do you know what subspecies of Sika deer you will be hunting? If it's the smaller subspecies the 243 would be just fine (Large Stag/Buck about 150 lbs). If you are hunting the larger subspecies (250+ lbs) I would use the 357 and keep the shot at 100m or less. For the Fallow deer live weight can be 250-300lbs+ for a large Stag/Buck. I would not recommend either for a quick and humane kill. Borrow your brothers 270, 308, 30.06, or 7MM for that.

Having taken deer with both the 357 and 243, if I had to take only one to hunt deer with, it would be the 243. If I could keep both rifles I would. The Henry is a great rifle shooting a revolver cartridge, the Parker Hale is a solid rifle with a very capable rifle cartridge. My experience with deer, is limited to the big bodied corn/bean fed white tails that abound here, like the ones I am watching in the field South of my house while I write this. I also agree with double-dipper, if you have a 270 or larger round available, better option.

Here is my take, the 243 is without a doubt a better pure deer rifle.. that said, the 357 in a lever rifle makes a fine deer round that doubles as one heck of a fun shooter when you are not deer hunting. How much fun shooting might you do vs strictly deer hunting?

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Plastic has no soul

CAN you hunt deer with a 357 rifle? Absolutely!

Is the 243 a BETTER deer rifle? Absolutely!

Keep'em both!

I've taken Pa. deer whitetails with a 6" scoped 686 limiting my shots to 50yds or less.

I have two .357 carbines a Winchester Trapper and a Ruger 77/357 bolt action. I wouldn't hesitate to use either....... that said in Pa. I use my Ruger 77 International in .243.

I think a 357 carbine is an adequate short range deer rifle but I wouldn't take one deer hunting on purpose. I consider them plinkers, small game and personal defense carbines. I would use it if it is what I had for a deer or hogs under 100 yards.

For deer hunting I'd keep the 243. Actually I'd trade it for something bigger. I have a 243 but havent hunted with it. I recommend either a 7-08 if recoil is a factor or 308. Other good deer cartridges exist but that's what I like. 243 will certainly work but I like more bullet particularly since we also have feral hogs which can be tougher than deer. Others may have different opinions but I like being able to take any reasonable shot that presents at any reasonable range. While I don't advocate flinging bullets at extremely long ranges I want anything within 400 yards to be a doable shot.

If someone shoots their .357 Magnum rifle on a regular basis, the odds are also good that they'll shoot it better in the field. I don't know many folks who put 50 rounds through their .243 in a range session, but I know a lot of folks who'll do that with their .357 Magnum rifle.

While I agree the .357 Magnum is capable as a deer gun I do not agree it's superior to the .243 by any means, even in larger deer. While a larger caliber is probably a good path to follow in very large bodies deer the .357 Magnum in not that caliber. Penetration might be a problem in the thick with mussel 250lb+ Mule deer.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I have killed two deer with a .357 rifle using a hand loaded 158 grain Hornady XTP "hollow point" bullet. Ranges for both were about 50 yards. Neither deer ran more than 10 yards. Only one shot was required for each deer. Both shots were lung shots and the bullets passed through. I had good blood trails from both shots. Upon field dressing the deer I was impressed with the destruction. Is a .357 carbine as good as a .270 Winchester? Of course not but I think it is fine for deer up to 100 yards.

I have shot Large Nevada Mule deer in the 280 pound range with a old
M19 6" .357 Magnum revolver with Speer 160gr SJSP doing 1230fps with Unique powder.
I did not have 2400 or w291 back in those days but if you could get a shot
at around 75 yards, meat would be in a deer bag.
I like to have 1,000 ft/lbs of energy for large deer.

Heck, a rifle is even BETTER !!

I got a 158 XTP up to 1340fps in a 6" barrel...............

Pick your poison.

As a note;
my 22/250 with a 60gr Nosler is good to 200 yards per bullet energy.
Its all about penetration and energy.
Your 243 should be good out to 300 yards, in steady hands.

Good hunting and a tag.

I don't have a .357 rifle but I do have a Winchester 94 Trapper in .44 Magnum. For the sake of discussion, I would have no difficulty in using that .44 Trapper for hunting anything deer sized or even larger inside of 100 yards. And it is so handy and light it also makes an excellent survival or home defense weapon. I used the Trapper for CAS, which I quit shooting nearly 20 years ago, and really don't have much use for it these days. But I just can't bring myself to sell it.

The 44 Magnum has quite a bit more oomph and with its heavier bullet, retains that oomph over longer distances than the 357 Magnum. For handgun calibers and hunting, the 44 Magnum is superior to the 357 Magnum.

The deer in the northern part of the USA would eat the deer from NZ. However the deer he is talking about are about the same size as yours. That being said Hornady makes a great deer round for your rifle the Leverevolution would make the 100 yard shot much easier and more deadly.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/h...on#!/#features

A well placed shot with a 357 magnum handgun can take a good sized deer. In a rifle? One can't go wrong with a Henry in any caliber...

Happen to have a 24 inch 94 Win and I would use it to shoot deer out to a 100 yds or so But I would use heavier bullets for certain. I use 170 gr cast bullets out of a M-64 32 Sp at about 1800 FPS. A.357 should do as well I would think. My FIL shot deer with his Marlin 44 Mag with some 200 gr handloads. That little carbine was pretty rough on him with 240 gr loads as he was taking blood thinners...so I fixed a load that worked for him. fot yhe next gew years He shot his last deer in 99 at 100 yrs old,,,But not for lack of trying in the next year or so.

I've taken .357 rifle out after deer, and connected with wild boar .

With non- expanding 158gr , had close to three feet of penetration thru boar, including thru the skull .

Factory loads gave 1700's fps, handloads can hit 1900 fps .

If you are in mental sync with non-expanding , there are whole buncha cast bullet designs , limited only by COL and shape for feeding in particular rifle .

If you seek controlled expansion , bullet selection must be carefully matched to your vels , as most jacket bullets are designed for handgun vels .

Why wouldn't the .357 Magnum make a good deed rifle? My grandfather used 25-35 to hunt deer to feed my mom and family for his whole life. I'm not sure what weight bullet he used but I believe back then it pushed a 117gr bullet at under 2000 fps. If he would have brought out a 30-30 be friends would have laughed and asked why he needed such a big gun! I guess the deer back then weren't armor plated.

I load a Sierra 150gr JHC bullet to 1826 fps
A Sierra 170gr JHC bullet to 1793 fps (amazing!)
A Cast Performance 180gr WFNGC bullet to 1657 fps

Any of the 3 will do the job but I prefer the 170gr Sierra bullet.
I even tested a 125gr XTP bullet to over 2200 fps but I fear it won't hold together on game.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Well the decision has been made for me. By market forces.

I needed to make some room in my safe as it was getting hard to close with all the contents. I listed four firearms that I have limited and irregular use for on a local auction site; the Parker Hale, the Henry Big Boy, my Stainless Rossi ‘92 (44/40) and my Remington 1100 shotgun. None sold first time listed but I received a request to relist the Rossi, which then sold.

I may still have to rationalise my firearms ownership at some time in the future. In the meantime I’ll take the .243 to the range to check it is still sighted in, have some fun on steel plates with the Henry and see about shortening the barrel on the 1100 to be used on steel plate “man on man” side matches.

But the fact that for the first time in several decades I no longer have a 44/40 rifle is starting to sink in

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View from down under

Bin their, done that......................

Why do we sell a collectors weapon or a first edition to someone
when deep down we will know that we will regret it down the line.....................

When our brains get back inside our skull!!

We will survive.........
but with scare tissue.

I don't think I would be comfortable using a 357 at 109.333 yards.

I don't envy your decision. But I agree with what this guy said. A rifle is just going to be more effective at all ranges. I personally think it's that simple. The other choice would be more of a "fun gun". And maybe better suited for a self defense weapon.

A sporterized mauser is a gem and not one to be taken lightly.

Again I don't envy your decision. Would be nice if you could keep both. One could be viewed more of a longer range gun and the other a shorter range gun. You'd have your bases covered.

A number of years back, Brian Pearce wrote an excellent article on .357 magnum carbines in either Handloader or Rifle magazine. Based on his testing, IIRC he felt that when fired from a carbine, it compared favorably with the 30-30 when using bullets in the 150 to 170 grain range. His fastest loads were right at 2,000 fps. People who have not taken game with the 357 (or the 41 or 44 magnums) have no idea of how much critter they will penetrate, even with velocities down around 1,000 fps. With todays monolithic bullets (Barnes, etc) your .243 will now likely equal the penetration of a 357 on a stem to stern deer shot. Until those bullets came along, the 357 with a decent bullet design and weight would often out penetrate most 6mms. Artificially limiting the 357 to 100 yards on deer from an accurate carbine is silly, and such arguments are nearly always based on "common sense" or the old "'cause everybody says so". Look around on the internet for other opinions. Look at Tim Sundles Buffalo Bore ammunition web site or Double Tap ammo's web site for modern 357 loadings. Google "hunting deer with 357 carbine" and see what you turn up. BTW, they're both fun guns, in useful chamberings.

Dave
"A strongly held opinion is not necessarily the same as a well informed opinion."

Almost any cartridge will kill a deer. For an all around great everything cartridges you cannot beat a 243.

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