Ohh, you're going to love that gun. I've had my FNX 45T for over three years, with 6,700 rounds through it. It's totally reliable and extremely accurate, especially with a red dot. I put a Vortex Venom 3 moa red dot on mine, and the bullet goes where the dot is. If I don't hit what I'm aiming at, it's my fault, not the 45T's or the Venom's. The trigger in DA is a long reach, but in SA it is just right for me with a reasonably short 4.5 lb pull.

My 45T has been totally problem-free. The only glitches I experienced were during my first shooting session. The low-powered Lawman and Winchester White Box ammo I started with, failed to cycle properly in the new, tight gun, resulting in some failures to eject and lock back on empty. I switched to stronger ammo, American Eagle, and Winchester Service Grade, and everything went perfectly after that. By 500 rounds it was completely broken in and it has shot all manner of ammo, even the weaker stuff, without issue ever since. So be sure to take some hotter rounds with you for use in your first session.

Enjoy your new FNX 45T!

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What, me worry?

The thread title is posed as a question, so folks taking it as a statement is bad enough.
However, what really bothers me are the folks who are so incredibly lazy that they post without reading anything more than the thread title.

So yeah, I take offense to someone who:

• Apparently does understand the purpose of question marks.
• Has such an absurdly short attention span that they overlook bold, color-coded text.
• Posts in threads without actually reading the opening post.

Shame on me for expecting people to actually read on a web-forum, I suppose.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

.45 ACP is accurate, easy to load and a pleasure to shoot. Aside from that, if 230 grains of GI hardball from an M1911A1 had not saved a young tanker's hide some fifty years ago there would be no old tanker. More than enough reason to appreciate John Browning's pistol and cartridge.

No handgun round is a 100% stopper. 45 may be better than 9mm (I think it is) but if averages say a 2nd shot required, that 2nd shot usually comes faster w a low recoiling 9mm.

FBI choice is based on not hiring gunfighters anymore. 9mm is easier for non-gun people to qualify with. 9mm ammo also costs less.

Personally if I knew I had to go to a gunfight w a handgun I want 2 1911s and some spare magazines. If I can't have a 1911, give me a couple of 625s or 629s w Specials or M27s. Only if I can't have those do I want a 9mm. For a 9mm I want a BHP or a Sig 250 because it has a trigger close to a DA revolver.

Why 2 pistols? I can draw faster than I can reload. Arm or hand hit, gun gets dropped maybe. Easier to draw weak hand than look for 1st gun on ground.

Finally if I knew I was going to have to go to a gunfight I would raise hell w the guy who wouldn't let me have a long gun.

Bullet profile plays a real factor as well. While a ball/round nose pill pushes and nudges tissue aside... A flat and wide meplate tends to crush tissue, stays nose forward, and pounds thru bone well especially when in a hard cast construction. A .45ACP moving 900fps with a meplate of 75% or greater than the total diameter of the bullet makes for a damned good projectile when put into center mass!

6.5 grains of Unique will drive a 230 grain lead truncated cone bullet at 910 fps from my Combat Commander. The load has proven accurate and reliable in all my pistols. I used this load to shoot IPSC and club officials never had to check the chrono to know it made major.

It's only been used to kill a couple of whitetails, and some nuisance critters around the farm, so far. I am confident it will do what it needs to do when called upon.

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I've only had 45's all my life. I've never had a 9mm. Last time I went to the range and shot a box of 45's out of my Commander my hand was fatigued. I'm 64.
Reduced recoil don't sound like such a bad idea to me.
I know where there's a CZ 75B in good shape for $450 and I'm thinking of getting it.

Any bullet over .36 is a waste of lead.
I.E. 9mm, 38, 357, I just round up to the near hundredth

As far as 9mm pistols go, the CZ75 has a LOT to recommend it. You ought to give it a good try. I am 70, no arthritis in my hands, yet, but I picked up a CZ-75 in Germany many years ago. I will likely go to it if I ever put up the Commander.

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For concealed carry I generally use a subcompact 9mm, for woods-bumming I'll carry either a .357 or .44 magnum revolver, but for sheer shooting enjoyment I'll take the .45 ACP every time. No other pistol caliber provides me as much enjoyment, especially in a finely tuned 1911 or in either my S&W 25-2 or S&W 625 JM. In addition, the .45 auto is a joy to handload for, with an almost endless variety of suitable powders and lead and jacketed bullets for making wonderfully accurate loads.
I'm willing to accept that there is likely little difference in stopping power between a 9mm, a .40 S&W, or a .45 ACP when using modern defensive ammunition, but I'm also aware that all three are woefully underpowered compared to a defensive shotgun load or to most centerfire rifle calibers.
For me the .45 Auto is very accurate, easy to shoot, has relatively mild recoil, and delivers a satisfying thump to anything I'm likely to shoot at.

I like the 45 due to the push rather than the flip recoil and the boom instead of the "KARACK" of the 9. I would like to carry a 1911 45 ACP but I just don't like cocked and locked carry with a light 1911 trigger. We each have to go with what we are most comfortable with.

I carry a 44 spl most of the time. I would like to shoot a 45 ACP revolver to compare the two. Just looking at the two the 45 bullet seems to look much bigger for some reason.

Over 50 years ago I was introduced to the M1911A1 in .45 ACP. I was taught bullseye shooting for qualification. I was taught combat shooting which came from Cooper's school at Gunsite. The M1911 is my fallback handgun.

Don't get me wrong, I like other handguns. I have N frames, SIG's, COlt revolvers and Browning Auto's in my safes. I like them all. And all are in various calibers.

Others may like different calibers, but .45 ACP is my favorite and the M1911 handgun is what I am use to using. I don't have to think about it. the gun fits my hand and it's mechanics are ingrained into my memory banks. I don't have to think about the operation, reloading or shooting of the piece, it becomes an extension of me.

The FBI found in 1986 that the 9MM got two of their agents killed in a shootout in Miami (will be glad to discuss this fact in PM's with anyone that cares to do so). They went to the 10 MM and then found it was to much gun for some of their agents, hence the .40 cal. They felt the .45 ACP was to much gun for their smaller agents and now I guess they feel the same about the .40 cal. Maybe they need to re-evaluate their agents. As the old saying goes "if you want to be a lumberjack, you must handle your end of the log".

Signed the Neanderthal Marine..........

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Hi, All:

I don't believe 'anything' undocumented, that I read, hear, or see. That being said, this is my opinion of the .45 ACP cartridge.

I've been a shooter for 82 years. the cartridges that I've shot, and used, range in size & calibers, from .22 short, through .45-70 Gov. I've hand loaded for more than thirty calibers, and still have loading dies, bullet molds, and sizing dies for most of them.

The .45 ACP is my all-time favorite cartridge. The good old USA comes to mind when it's mentioned. Brass is readily available, and easy to reload. I have a big supply on hand. A .45 ACP, can be reloaded for less than a .22 LR, cartridge costs to buy, and the .22 LR, can't be economically reloaded. The .22 LR, is my second favorite cartridge, and my third choice is the .38 special. The only shooting that I can take an active part in now, is 'shooting the breeze'. Thanks for allowing me to do that.

Chubbo

Talking about the merits of the .45 ACP cartridge is easy. I load for it so it's inexpensive to shoot; it's a big fat bullet that leaves a big hole, with or without JHP rounds; I enjoy shooting it and can hit what I'm aiming at; I can carry it large or carry it small depending on my mood, clothing, or the weather.

It's not a zero sum game. Cartridge wars are unproductive. I love 9mm too and can carry it with more rounds when the mood strikes me.

Well, it's good for pleasing me, every time I shoot one of mine. And that's all it has to be, at least as far as I'm concerned!!

The .45 ACP is "American" as anything, plus I usually don't have to squint to see if I hit the X-ring, and if I am shooting at something other than paper, I'll still know if I hit it.

I recently bought a .CA Pitbull in 45 ACP Very pleased with it. I haven't carried it yet. Haven't found the right holster yet. The cylinder being just over 1.6" in diameter is not going to be conducive to IWB carry. But I'm having fun shooting it. Recoil is brisk but manageable.

Corporal Alvin York (later promoted to Sergeant) was charged by a
German officer and five soldiers with fixed bayonets. He picked them
off from rear to front with his .45 ACP. If you saw the movie he used
a Luger. The story is the .45 would not handle blanks, so they had him
liberate a Luger to use.

I wonder what went through that officer's mind if he glanced around
and saw his 5 soldiers all knocked down? He probably thought Oh s---!
Or something similar.

Well, Sgt. York liked the 1911 .45. Another good reason for us to like it.

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In Omnia Paratus

Mom, baseball, apple pie, 45 ACP in a M1911

If a 9m/m is just as good as a .45 or .40 then why isn't a .380 as good as a 9m/m?

I like 1911's, but I'm not a huge fan. That being said, I'm a huge fan of the 45acp round. I own five revolvers in the caliber and a couple of Sig P220's. I shoot 230 grain ball ammo almost exclusively. I've destroyed a lot of paper with it and have no qualms about using it for home defense. If a caliber can be a good fit for a shooter, the 45acp is mine. I'm well aware of how ammunition has advanced over the years, but I have confidence in the original design. As an aside, I also like 9mm, 357 magnum, and 22lr.

I heard he hung it from his left hand pinky finger while grasping and shooting his rifle. Then when the rifle went dry he grabbed onto the pistol and kept on firing.

Groo here
Most forget one basic fact.....
Most PD ammo is built to FBI spec...
That they perform the same should be no supprise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously?

Shorter case length, shorter overall length, and lower pressure limit means lower sectional density projectiles at lower velocity means that .380 cannot use effective expanding projectiles or perform well against barriers.

I have enjoyed reloading the 45 for the various platforms in which it can excel. Typically everyone thinks of the 1911 as the only platform. While I love that historical platform, we often forget some great old platforms like the S&W 645, or revolvers like the S&W 1917, Model 25, or even the Colt SAA. Just because the FBI might seemingly like to bury it, doesn't mean it's dead.

the 45acp is good for feeding my favorite guns.

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Charlie

What is the .45 ACP good for?

How about winning WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and even GW1? It’s fought in and won every war America has ever fought since 1916... isn’t that enough of a track record???

The .45 had less to do with winning those wars than ANY widely issued infantry weapon.

I like the .45 because no one makes a 1911 in .44-40.
Jim

Actually, modern JHPs such as Hornady's XTP bullet design are known to be reliable performers in .380 ACP, they expand reliably and typically penetrate 12" in FBI Calibrated Ballistics Gel.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the .380 ACP got a bad reputation due to the fact that domestic ammo was downloaded for decades out of concern for all the straight blowback operated Saturday Night Specials/Ring of Fire guns made of cheap pot metal.
Meanwhile, in Europe the .380 ACP remained in use by various Law Enforcement agencies well into the 1980s because it wasn't downloaded.

Thankfully, with all of the high quality short recoil operated .380 Pocket Pistols on the market today, ammo is no longer downloaded here in the States and now offers performance on par with Standard Pressure .38 Special loads, which is completely adequate for self-defense.

Ironically, a somewhat lesser known fact is that when John Moses Browning designed the .380 ACP cartridge he did so by scaling down his .45 ACP cartridge design.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

If someone was coming at you and you had one bullet what would you choose?

One bullet? I’ll assume you mean a handgun bullet? In that case, a .460 S&W Magnum loaded with a lightweight semi-jacketed hollow point.

One of them went over 18". (I don't know of any auto-glass testing of .380s.)

You have what I consider a funny definition of reliable performance.

"Tastes great!" "Less filling!"

It kind of seems that who ever got this thread going might be the kind of guy to suggest to the person next to him on the barstool that the guy two more stools over just said something rude about the first guy's sister.

I am aware of several shootings involving the 44 magnum (lots of them up north) in which the recipient of the slug kept in the fight; ditto two occasions with 12 gauge slugs. My point is that if neither of those rounds was a sure thing in a fight, betting the farm on the 9mm, the 40, the 10 or the 45 may be kind of sketchy unless you know how to apply the force where it counts. BTW, NOTHING easily man portable is a for sure (100%) stopper. If you are of the opinion that 45 hardball is a reliable stopper, go shoot five or six porcupines and see what you think after that. IIRC, there are about an equal number of Medal of Honor winners who earned the medal through use of captured 9mm Lugers and P-38s as there were MOH recipients through use of the 1911 .45 ACP.

I would choose a 12 Gauge Brenneke Black Magic Magnum Slug.

If Shotgun slugs don't count, then I'll go with .50 BMG.

If Rifle bullets don't count, then I'll go with a .460 S&W Magnum.

Congratulations, you cherry-picked one specific instance in which an XTP failed to reliably expand through 4 layers of heavy denim from a line of testing in which every other XTP load functioned flawlessly in bare gel and overall performed decently through denim.


Meanwhile, the bare gel results were perfect, but you didn't show those results because it didn't support your argument.

Too bad, I actually watched ShootingtheBull410's .380 Ammo Quest on YouTube in its entirety, and nearly all XTP bullets made it into his Winner's Circle, with the winner being Precision One XTPs.

Final Results of the .380 ACP Ammo Quest | Shooting The Bull








As you can see, in most cases, the XTP bullet expanded with total reliability, with only those shot through 4 layers of heavy denim failing to expand in a few cases.
Now you can go right on ahead and attempt to make the argument that matters, but considering that in real life it would be virtually impossible for someone to wear 4 layers of denim on their person while maintaining any form of mobility, it's a weak argument at best.

But hey, you got me. There were at least a few cases in which .380 XTP bullets failed to expand with 100% reliability when fired through 4 layers of heavy denim.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I also stopped being surprised by the occasional "failure-to-stop" when a shotgun (buck or slug) or a rifle was involved, too. It happens. People are pretty resilient, and not everyone has allowed themselves to be programmed to expect to keel over when shot.

I do, however, like to suspect that a "double tap" or "hammer" with a shotgun or rifle might well have better potential for resulting in a "stop" than when a handgun is involved.

Choose your compromise.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

We sometimes forget the 1911 was designed in the era of horse cavalry, when pistols were supplanting the saber as a close-in weapon. Why did the Army adopt the .45 ACP? Just because of the Moros? Maybe, but it is also likely the Army liked the .45 caliber because of its suitability to cavalry work – the only place where it would be used as a soldier’s primary weapon.

The 1911’s strange safety mechanisms makes sense when you think about how they were designed for the cavalryman – whom we can presume was not trained to carry a round in the chamber until right before an action, when he would chamber a round and carry the pistol into the fight cocked and locked at the ready until gaining close contact, when he would push down the safety and get to business.

Today when people carry the 1911 they adapt to the gun, since cocked and locked is really not a great way to carry a weapon, nor is carrying a round in the chamber with the hammer down. (Remember too that when the 1911 was issued it was most often carried in a holster with a flap – good for safety and for protecting the gun, but not ideal for rapid deployment of the pistol.)

Back to the cavalry: .45 ACP is a good caliber to put down a horse, either the enemy’s in a close-in fight or yours if you are half out of the saddle and losing control of your mount. The .45 ACP has characteristics similar to the .45 Long Colt used before it, foremost that large heavy bullet and its ability to penetrate skulls and break bones – of horses as well as enemy soldiers.

Strong suit of the .45 ACP? It lies in that penetrating, crushing capability found in the large, heavy bullet – which can be very useful in specific circumstances. I’m surprised .45 ACP adherents haven’t done more work exploring the benefits of hard cast lead bullets with flat noses and Lehigh Defender/Black Hills Honey Badger solid bullets. It might change the terms of this discussion.

The picture shows "US Army Cavalry troops on maneuvers circa 1930, 1911 pistols in hand" and was borrowed from Ammoland's post about history of the 1911 pistol:

Attached Images

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S&W Rover

I doubt that anyone will argue over the effectiveness of the .357 Magnum cartridge, nor do I think that anybody will flame you over such an innocuous opinion.

That being said, I don't think that there's a such thing as "the best" when it comes to self-defense cartridges, especially when folks come in all shapes and sizes, thus making the concept of a one-size-fits-all cartridge rather far-fetched.

Let's try to stay on-topic though, this is a thread about .45 ACP.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

In some respects, I think all of us admirers of the 1911 .45 ACP are rubes. Why? Well, we're always waxing poetically (or stridently) about its power. Powerful? Really? Heck, its more or less just a semi-auto platform for the .45 Schofield! Which was quite a step down from the .45 Colt (20 grains less bullet - from 250 to 230, and 12 grains less powder - from 40 grains to 28). Hardly a barn burner. But if you look at the ballistics of original 45 ACP GI loads, they're dang close to that Schofield loading. Was it better than 9mm ball? Heck yes. I have taken deer and other game with the 45 ACP, but in those outings I relied on a load pushing the H&G #68 200 grain SWC at 1,000 fps. It worked quite well. In a round about way, I'm alive today because of a 1911 .45; it was used in WWI by my grandfather, who was hit by a Maxim as he threw a grenade into its gun pit. He used his .45 (he was a Lewis gunner, so carried a 1911 routinely) to incentivize a couple of German prisoners to make a stretcher from their great coats and a couple of long Mauser rifles, and to then haul him to a first aid station.

The Extremas were simply the first XTP loading listed on that page.*

I believe 4-layer denim testing is a better indicator of bullet performance than bare gel. Dr. Roberts, for instance, has stated that bullets pulled from bodies tend to look like 4LD bullets and not bare gel bullets. 4LD was also developed as an engineering test and not as a representative piece of clothing likely to be encountered. (Besides, the seams in clothing can easily have four layers of cloth in them.)

9mm, .40, and .45 (the namesake of this thread) all offer loads that will perform against sturdier barriers such as wall board or auto-glass and sheet steel, which is useful if you are defending your home or are the target of a road rage incident.

Dr. Roberts lists 16 9mm, 11 .40, and 8 .45 ACP loads that offer acceptable performance whereas STB410 found only two bullet designs that offered acceptable performance and in only two test barriers. IMHO that indicates something.

* After re-watching the Final Wrapup they were also indicated as his second choice (along with the Hydra-Shok.)

To be fair though, the .45 ACP was for quite a long time the most powerful semiautomatic pistol cartridge, and even today it holds up favorably, with only a handful of semiautomatic pistol cartridges which are nowhere near as popular.

Honestly, the most popular semiautomatic pistol cartridge which is substantially more powerful than .45 ACP is 10mm Auto, which just so happens to share the 1911 as the most popular pistol it is chambered in.

Heck, if one thing stands as testament to the power of the .45 ACP cartridge, it's the number of people who brag about how certain loads from smaller caliber cartridges can equal its energy.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I bet 45acp sells well in New Jersey!!

Assuming it isn't banned for being just too darn deadly or because it's just so darn intimidating that the mere act of having it on display inside a gunshop is considered a form of brandishing.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

The .45 ACP cartridge certainly stirs up emotion with it's history and heft.
In my case it is first a toy. My 1911 it is the most satisfying and fun gun I have ever shot. With it's low pressures it is easy to reload safely. I am a huge fan of .45 ACP 1911s.
For self defense it is adequate but nothing special. Research shows a bullet needs to be moving at 2,200 fps or more to shock/incapacitate beyond just what the wound channel of a slower bullet does.

A 200 gr full wad cutter in my 45 acp revolver. Bang, Splat!

One thing the .45 will do is never shrink.

Even the timeless manstopper, the 230 grain FMJ rounded nose ball cartridge, has a near peerless record of stopping the fight RIGHT NOW.

The 9mm? Yeah right. Nowhere NEAR as combat effective in FMJ. And with modern hollowpoints, the .45 has been as well developed as 9mm.

Everybody just keeps repeating the same myths over and over. I've yet to see a scientific study that proves from real-world data that .45ACP FMJ is significantly better than 9mm FMJ, or similarly, that the JHP versions differ significantly from each other.

For Me
45acp=Confidence.
Jim

Groo here
" About anything east of the Mississippi"
And many things west.

Fun!
Self-defense! ("Pest" controle)
I could go on ...