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  #251  
Old 04-24-2020, 04:36 PM
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.45 ACP: What is it good for? Absolutely nothing? .45 ACP: What is it good for? Absolutely nothing? .45 ACP: What is it good for? Absolutely nothing? .45 ACP: What is it good for? Absolutely nothing? .45 ACP: What is it good for? Absolutely nothing?  
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Carried one for two tours in Nam saw what they can do! Been carrying one since getting out in 68, been my duty weapon for the past 14 years. I love the caliber along with all the others I shoot.
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  #252  
Old 04-24-2020, 07:15 PM
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I prefer my Delta in 10mm of course, followed closely by my 1006
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Old 04-24-2020, 07:24 PM
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I wonder if you've actually read the FBI data, or you simply have a big bore burr under your saddle. I suspect the latter.

The FBI has never stated the .45acp is useless or good for nothing. That's a simplistic, misleading and, quite frankly ignorant statement. The only conclusion reached is this: with improvements in modern service ammo, the various common service rounds are performing about the same. Any difference is merely academic at this point. With that in mind, the one that's easiest to shoot, has the highest ammunition capacity, is cheaper and results in longer durability for the guns in which it's chambered, is the logical choice. This conclusion has been reached by a entity that conducts more ballistic testing than any other organization in the world when it comes to handgun ammunition. This conclusion has been reached through scientific testing that's controlled, consistent, repeatable and will stand up to peer review in any academic community.

That conclusion is absolutely correct.

If you like your .45, by all means carry it, but stop with the hurt feelings over it.

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  #254  
Old 04-24-2020, 10:06 PM
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Carried a 1911 for over 40 years, love that platform, BUT, getting old puts a real crimp in my shooting autoloaders. The recoil tends to torque my wrist is such a way that it just plain HURTS, so Iím back to a wheel gun and all of its problems; limited capacity, slow to reload, bit gun but I do love my 629 V-Comp and now I have 625JM. Soft shooting, accurate, fast to reload, easy to reload for and a caliber that people that donít know any better (liberal judges) donít consider as excessive. I know that it shouldnít make any difference what caliber is used in a good shooting, but there are some folks out there that will send you to prison because they donít like your gun.
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  #255  
Old 04-24-2020, 11:08 PM
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Wow, now here's a little blast from the past. It doesn't feel like it was that long ago that I posted this thread.

Amusingly enough, I commented in a post in this very thread about how I couldn't find any cheap .40s in my area, then some 3 months later I found a SW40VE at my LGS for $199.

@Trooper, I know that you may have missunderstood this, what with me being "Mr. Thesaurus" and all, but the brightly-colored, bold, and underlinded portion of the OP clearly states that this thread isn't about Caliber Wars, so please try to keep that in mind if you intend to continue posting in this thread.
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  #256  
Old 04-25-2020, 08:25 PM
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My EDC is a Kimber Micro 9 carried OWB with 2 spare mags. I would prefer to carry my Combat Commander, as I can shoot it more accurately and it has the bigger punch. But I only have one bone and anything bigger that the Micro 9 is hard to conceal and makes me list to one side. As they say, the one you can carry is worth much more than the one left at home. I hardly notice the Kimber under an untucked shirt. That said, if I knew I was going to a gunfight, I'd definitely take the 1911. But even more, I'd want a long gun.
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  #257  
Old 04-25-2020, 09:15 PM
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First centerfire pistol I ever bought was a Colt Commander in (of course) .45 ACP. I'd got shot at the previous Saturday while at work (unarmed security in a ship yard). So, I bought the Colt, stuck it in my pocket and went back to work. Never had anyone else take a potshot at me. Cool. Would have hated to have had to call down a fire strike on whoever was so foolish! Of course I'd also have been hunting a job the next day. Sincerely. bruce.
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  #258  
Old 04-25-2020, 11:17 PM
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I like it because it's as close to a "decisive" cartridge as there is that can be carried conveniently, it's an easy and friendly caliber to reload, and I like the typical handgun platform in which it is chambered (1911-style pistols). And that I've been shooting/loading it for over 40 years now.
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  #259  
Old 04-25-2020, 11:28 PM
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As a combat round it is not as modern as more modern rounds!
For pure satisfaction in a full size 1911 it is timeless.
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  #260  
Old 04-26-2020, 12:08 AM
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.45 ACP/modernized smokeless powder version of black powder .45 colt is an excellent round, as was it's predecessor. However shot placement is what wins, .093 wider won't turn a bad hit into a good one. I know a couple of people who killed black bears w/ .22's* just as quickly as a bazooka would but given a choice would have jumped @ the chance for a .45, .357, .30-06, etc.
*bullet down ear canal, long story for another thread.
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  #261  
Old 04-26-2020, 08:16 AM
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"War" is good for absolutely nothing
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  #262  
Old 04-26-2020, 08:42 AM
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I'm happy to see that at least one person in this thread got the reference, pitty it had to take a year and a necro-bump to get there.
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  #263  
Old 04-26-2020, 09:13 AM
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I have a friend who was a marine infantryman in Vietnam, and told me of one fight where he and his buddy in the next hole were gleefully celebrating the efficiency of the .45 1911 DURING the battle. His buddy was armed with a 1911 and shot SEVERAL enemy which had penetrated their position.
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  #264  
Old 04-26-2020, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBill View Post
My 45acp has weathered many storms with these mcfizzled new wiz bang calibers that seem to come and grow. I give the stopping power to the 45acp everytime. When we talk about the 9mm itís firepower with less stopping power? I refuse to change my ways Iím happy with my 45 acp in my 1911ís. No 9mm in my 1911.
There is no such thing as stopping power.
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  #265  
Old 04-26-2020, 10:56 AM
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...And the Europeans and everybody else says, Look at those Americans. We've known all along that Nine is all you need....
But IIRC, many European police forces carried the 7.65 (.32ACP) and stepped up to the 9mm because it "was more effective." However, they DID stop there.

I don't know that we have to "justify" the .45 ACP. It has great historical value, did the job it was intended to, and still does- probably better than it did originally due to better bullets. Anyway, most of us accept that handguns are lacking in "stopping power" anyway, so for serious social purposes it really boils down to capacity, and that mostly for LEOs.

And since owning guns isn't all about defending yourself, it's just fun to shoot. 'Nuf said.
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  #266  
Old 04-26-2020, 12:27 PM
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I started law enforcement with a revolver. When we finally adopted a semi-auto a few years later, it was the new S&W 645. I also carried a 1911 when assigned to an undercover narcotics unit for a time, and later a Glock 21. When we had the revolvers, we carried .357 magnum ammo. The .45's were JHPs. It should be noted that virtually none of us would carry 9mm in those days because of perceived ineffectiveness based on shootings where multiple hits (one upwards of 30 rounds) failed to stop the bad guy. Over-penetration was common, along with lack of proper expansion (refer to the 9mm Silvertip).

Now, with all of that out of the way, my preference has always been .45 ACP. I grew up in a military family and had a father who firmly believed the 1911 and .45 ACP were the best there was. Over time, technological and ballistic advancements brought the effectiveness of 9mm up to an acceptable level. Us "old cops" began to grudgingly accept them, with the right loadings, but still clung to our .45s, particularly 1911s among my friends. The one thing I always remember from those days was while in a class with Clint Smith, there were a number of Sheriff's Deputies who were issued S&W 659s in 9mm. They were making fun of my new-fangled Glock 21 (as was Clint, it not being a 1911). I asked Clint to explain to the Deputies why he carried a .45 ACP. Not a direct quote, but his response was something akin to, ".45 makes bigger holes, bigger holes leak more fluid). Clint also told us that .45 FMJ was his preferred carry because 9mm had to expand to be effective; .45 ACP didn't need to.
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  #267  
Old 04-26-2020, 12:50 PM
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...Clint also told us that .45 FMJ was his preferred carry because 9mm had to expand to be effective; .45 ACP didn't need to.
Didn't Jeff Cooper like RNFP for the same reason?
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  #268  
Old 04-26-2020, 01:29 PM
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I think so. Could be where Clint got that.
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  #269  
Old 04-26-2020, 02:19 PM
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Never having shot anyone with either the 9mm or 45 ACP, I should probably stay quiet, but what fun would that be? Modern bullet design might make the 9mm the equal to the 45, but as a soldier limited to FMJ ammo, my confidence level would be much higher with the 45.
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Old 05-26-2020, 08:17 PM
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The military has an abundance of 9mm Berettas. Yet when the Marine Corps Special Ops needed a good offensive handgun, they asked for a 45.
Nuff said.
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  #271  
Old 05-27-2020, 06:24 AM
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I thought that the USMC SpecOps started carrying Glock 9mms of some sort.
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  #272  
Old 05-27-2020, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Callahan View Post
I thought that the USMC SpecOps started carrying Glock 9mms of some sort.
List of weapons of the United States Marine Corps - Wikipedia
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  #273  
Old 05-27-2020, 08:41 AM
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When my Sheriff's Office changed from the model 66 .357 magnum to the model 645, I learned all about the new pistol. I liked it, and sold several revolvers to buy a few .45 pistols. Ultimately, I kept the generation 3 pistols, and replaced the revolvers. Shortly before I retired they changed to the new 4506. When you retire, they give you the service pistol, so I had a 4506 with 50 rounds through it ( one range qualification ). I cleaned it well and put it in the safe. I kept two alloy frame pistols, and have carried my CS 45 for over twenty years. I have no reason to change. I am well pleased with the pistol, and the caliber. I do carry 165 gr. Hydra Shok loads in enough loaded magazines to have 25 rounds at the ready.

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  #274  
Old 05-27-2020, 09:01 AM
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Just now came back and went through this post and thread again. Just a few thoughts. The merits of the .45 ACP are multiple. In any loading, it is effective for range use and SD/HD. Some loadings are more useful. It shines for range use. Holes in targets are easy to see. A good H&G 68 will cut a very clean hole in paper. It can be down loaded to powder puff level for target shooting, etc. It can be loaded up to ball to the wall levels for shooting ... whatever. Brass is easy to find. It is a easy cartridge for reloading either single stage or progressive. It is chambered in a very broad variety of pistols and revolvers. It offers power that is useful w/o being so excessive as to be unpleasant for long strings of fire. Its relevance today is indisputable for those who enjoy the 1911 series of pistols, for those who enjoy reloading, for those who enjoy the history and mystery of the round, for those who have an emotional connection with the round and the pistols for which it has been/is chambered. At present a nicely customized RIA 1911-A1 is lying on the couch to my left. It is loaded with plain Jane 230 gr. ball. To my knowledge, this pistol has not ever failed to do anything at all. It has feed and fired everything ever loaded into it. I shot it till the front sight got loose. A new front sight was fitted. It didn't even require a change in sight settings. One day when I can the pistol will have a wide beavertail safety fitted, a commander hammer and a new sear to fit the hammer. I would trust this relatively inexpensive pistol with my life ... even the life of my loved ones. Sincerely. bruce.
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Old 05-27-2020, 12:05 PM
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If the 45 acp is so worthless why do the sub caliber guys spend so much time trying to prove it. Why has it stayed around for well over 100 years. Just how many people has it killed and just how many more is it going to take to convince the sub caliber guys. If the 9mm is better than that 11.5 mm, why isn't a 6.5mm hand gun even better?
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Old 05-27-2020, 04:22 PM
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I do not see this as being any kind of argument. The 9mm is a better bet for the average person to learn to shoot well for all the reasons given in this thread. We need to remember that not all cops, agents, etc are gun people and to them the gun is nothing more than a tool. For those of us in this forum, we are gun folks with many of us having many years of shooting experience as well as shooting know how. For us the 45 is always a better choice because it offers added insurance for anything we want to do with a centerfire auto handgun.

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Old 05-27-2020, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
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There is no such thing as stopping power.
Almost unbelievable but I believe it. From WWI it was investigated proven (found evidence) St York killed 7 Germans with 7 shots so I believe this.
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Old 05-27-2020, 07:30 PM
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Based upon the decision making of FBI's lawyers and accountants around the 2016 Presidential election, this retired fed will go ahead and stay with my .40 S&W pistols for SD and HD. Any recent decision made by leaders at the FBI is probably the wrong one.
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Old 05-27-2020, 07:57 PM
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I've never even shot a .45.
And yes, I am ashamed.
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:19 PM
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.45 ACP is a great round but not for everyone. A lot of younger folks look at 1911's & the .45 as 'old guy' platforms. As to it's effectiveness, it's been plenty effective since the year 1911 & the .45 Colt 'long Colt' to use the slang term, in the SAA format for years before that. In fact many of the older established calibers used over the last 150 years do just fine.

In todays world a lot of camps are focused on progressing power, velocity, hyper performing rounds,. the old stuff took care of things just fine.
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Old 05-27-2020, 11:56 PM
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These are my 45 ACP SD rounds in my Glock G21.
Winchester 45 ACP Ranger T-Series 230 gr. Plus P in the 1st pic.
Winchester 45 ACP Ranger T-Series 230 gr. non Plus P in the 2nd pic.
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Old 05-28-2020, 01:02 AM
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Default The FBI....

The FBI can't make up their mind about ANYTHING. It's more the person shooting it than the gun.
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Old 05-28-2020, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rich5674 View Post
Almost unbelievable but I believe it. From WWI it was investigated proven (found evidence) St York killed 7 Germans with 7 shots so I believe this.
Alvin York was an expert marksman who was known to shoot the heads off of Turkeys.

He also hunted for fur. In order to take the animal without ruining the pelt a headshot was required.

Human beings tend to revert to their training under stress. Where do you think he shot those Germans?
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Old 05-28-2020, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by LCC View Post
I've never even shot a .45.
And yes, I am ashamed.
You have led a sheltered life. . .45 ACP revolver or automatic with 200 gr. SWC bullets make impressive holes in targets. Larry
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:31 AM
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The bigger 45 ACP cartridges allow my big arthritic mitts to handle them better, and also with aging eyes, I can see the bigger holes which they put in paper targets better compared to smaller bullets.

...kidding aside, a fantastic cartridge. One can have their entire handgun needs covered by 22lr, 38/357 and 45 ACP. Add in a 41 or 44 Magnum for bigger game if you so desire.

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Old 05-29-2020, 11:10 PM
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In regard to 45 ACP magazine capacity, I find 13 round double stack, quite satisfactory.
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayfox View Post
A 9mm might expand. A .45 won't shrink.
Bigger holes are better.
I hear this a lot, and in the 70's and 80's it would have been true.
Bullets back then, no matter the caliber, were inconsistent in the expansion department, and were very reliant upon velocity to achieve any expansion.

Fast forward to the present, and many (but not all) of the current crop of defensive loads will always expand.
An HST, Gold Dot or Ranger-T will ALWAYS expand, no matter what caliber, weight or velocity.
Even a 147 grain 9mm HST, starting at less than 1000 fps, or a 230 grain .45 ACP HST or W-W Defend, starting at less than 850 fps, will expand beautifully every time.
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Old 06-09-2020, 09:29 AM
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Despite the 45 acp being my favorite handgun caliber I think this thread deserves an award for having the best title.
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Old 06-09-2020, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by husker51 View Post
In regard to 45 ACP magazine capacity, I find 13 round double stack, quite satisfactory.
Its kind of fun to practice changing mags and see how fast you can re-load the 1911. With repetition it soon becomes second nature.

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Old 06-24-2020, 03:21 PM
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So, here's a Gold Dot question in this caliber: Speer offers 230 gr. in two versions -- regular and "short barrel." What's the real world difference, and in a 4-inch barrel, which is recommended?
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:36 PM
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The short barrel version uses faster burning powder to achieve higher velocity and therefore similar performance to the standard load out of a standard length barrel.
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:48 PM
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Lucky Gunner tested their .45 ACP loads out of a Kahr CW45 that has a 3.64" barrel. Gold Dot results were:
230 Gold Dot-752 fps.,expanded to .71 caliber with 12.9"of penetration.
230 Gold Dot Short Barrel-806 fps, expanded to .70 caliber with 14.4" of penetration.
For comparison... 200 gr. Gold Dot +P - 982 fps., .70 caliber and 13.8" of penetration.
185 grain Gold Dot - 964 fps. ,.70 caliber, and 14.1" of expansion.

Doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between the 4 loads as far as performance.

The Gold Dots, along with HSTs and Ranger T's seem to be very consistent across the board, more so than any other brand or type of bullets.
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Old 06-25-2020, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandog View Post
Lucky Gunner tested their .45 ACP loads out of a Kahr CW45 that has a 3.64" barrel. Gold Dot results were:
230 Gold Dot-752 fps.,expanded to .71 caliber with 12.9"of penetration.
230 Gold Dot Short Barrel-806 fps, expanded to .70 caliber with 14.4" of penetration.
For comparison... 200 gr. Gold Dot +P - 982 fps., .70 caliber and 13.8" of penetration.
185 grain Gold Dot - 964 fps. ,.70 caliber, and 14.1" of expansion.

Doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between the 4 loads as far as performance.

The Gold Dots, along with HSTs and Ranger T's seem to be very consistent across the board, more so than any other brand or type of bullets.
So, any reason NOT to use the short barrel version in a 4-inch barrel or a Commander? I ask because I am able to find that version locally, but not the regular.
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Old 06-26-2020, 05:54 PM
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I believe in diversity. My EDC is a Shield 9, at night, beside the bed is a nightstand, the Shield rests there at night, but in the drawer is a RP .45 full of flying ashtrays, and 2 steps away from that is an Ithaca 37 DS, full of buckshot. Knockdown is directly connected to bullet placement. Let's don't refer to the 9mm as a newcomer, after all it's 3 years older than the .45. At 67 years of age, I finally have a 38 Super, a Colt Competition Stainless. Man, is it sweet!
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Old 06-26-2020, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveG View Post
So, any reason NOT to use the short barrel version in a 4-inch barrel or a Commander? I ask because I am able to find that version locally, but not the regular.
The short barrel Gold Dot would be a good load, a bit more penetration ( and velocity) out of a shorter barrel than the other Gold Dot loads, expansion is pretty much the same in all 4 GD loads, .70 to .71 caliber.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:13 PM
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As did jerrydm60, I carried M1911s in Viet Nam and was quite happy with their effect on obstreperous interveners.
It was my caliber of choice for many years after. I have subsequently ownedn .45ACP arms by Colt, Kimber, S&W and Sig and never had a moment's concern about effectiveness. I also have a Thompson M1A1 and happily load thousands of .45ACP to keep it fed.
I am most likely to carry other calibers for self-defense, today, but anything in 45ACP suits me just fine.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:26 PM
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"Army Sergeant Alvin C. York used his 1911 pistol to single-handedly kill six German soldiers charging him with fixed bayonets. He earned the Congressional Medal of Honor as a result."

I think the fact that he used old gi mags and ball ammo says a lot for the old .45.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tubbsy View Post
"Army Sergeant Alvin C. York used his 1911 pistol to single-handedly kill six German soldiers charging him with fixed bayonets. He earned the Congressional Medal of Honor as a result."

I think the fact that he used old gi mags and ball ammo says a lot for the old .45.
I do believe that "old GI mags" were all they had then, no aftermarkets were available yet.

Nothing wrong with ball ammo, it penetrates well.
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Old 08-09-2020, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
In this thread, let's discuss the merits of the .45 ACP cartridge, it's strengths, what it's good for, where it shines, and how it's still relevant today.
It works well in my M1911A1
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:12 AM
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.45 ACP along with .45 Colt and .40 S&W are my favorite pistol calibers. I like that the USP here in .45 and .40 works perfectly with all brands of ammunition that goes through it and a plus is even if a .45 whether ACP or Colt does not expand you still have a .45 caliber hitting the target.
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